FIFA World Cup 2014

[Eshnar]

You are fast. OTOH, that was the single time.
I give you the 6-0 Peru 1978 game as counter example. For starters.

there's no need of any other examples. My point is that any tie breaker can be used at your own advantage. I don't see why one could be better than the other.

 

[Netserk]

what if I told you that any tie breaker is open to all sorts of manipulations?
Euro 2004, anyone?

How dare you call that manipulation?!?

 

[Eshnar]

How dare you call that manipulation?!?

you nordic cheaters

 

[The Hitch]

Ok after 4 times I understand that an Englishman headed the ball through, not an Uruguayan.

Can anyone confirm this for a 5th time?

An Englishman headed the ball through, not an Uruguayan.

More specifically Steven Gerrard who has the worlds greatest history at giving the ball to world class strikers on the opposing team towards the end of games when the score is 1-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJIi86iywqU&feature=kp

Even better- last minute of epic game against France England should have won against France. Same combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuSeV9E4pU0&t=1m12s

Not 1-1 and not at the end of game but same thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GprcTAFLQCw

There's also the slip this year that cost Liverpool the premier league.

All in big games.

I was actually thinking 2 minutes earlier when England did a back pass if Gerrard would do it again. Was wrong on the time though, 85 mins not 90.

Not quite as bad as previous versions though.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Anyway, ofcourse Suarez is a world class player. He played at Ajax. Duh.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

there's no need of any other examples. My point is that any tie breaker can be used at your own advantage. I don't see why one could be better than the other.

That´s obvious. Three examples (there are many more):
Honduras, Portugal & Cameroon got early red cards, from then those games weren´t only over, but they became high scoring one directional (for soccer 3/4-nils are high scores).
Now the teams getting the advantage of red cards for the reminder of the game playing 11-10, they get even more of that advantage for further tie-breakers. It´s a double advantage (sometimes even triple if a Penalty kick is awarded on top) for single fouls.
Those are stupid stupid rules...
Can´t sell that bull to Americans. It just don´t go...

 

[mr. tibbs]

Luis Suarez is one crazy muther****a but imo best player in the world. Put him on a team like Barca or Real or Bayern like Ronaldo, Ribery or Messi have, and he'd outperform them

I decided this last match Uruguay are the team I am going to cheer for. Only ever cheer for underdogs and they fit that bill. Far from the best team but with Luis Suarez, the bad man that he is, they can beat anyone on their day.

Also Uruguay stealing the World cup in Brazil for a second time after how Brazil never forgot 1950, would be the greatest moment in sports history

They've been my team since World Cup 2010. Watching Forlan tear defenses apart was just inspiring! And Suarez with the hand of God to take Ghana to penalty kicks was priceless:

If only their jersyers weren't those absurd, painted-on Puma affairs this year. Ugh.

 

[Eshnar]

That´s obvious. Three examples (there are many more):
Honduras, Portugal & Cameroon got early red cards, from then those games weren´t only over, but they became high scoring one directional (for soccer 3/4-nils are high scores).
Now the teams getting the advantage of red cards for the reminder of the game playing 11-10, they get even more of that advantage for further tie-breakers. It´s a double advantage (sometimes even triple if a Penalty kick is awarded on top) for single fouls.
Those are stupid stupid rules...
Can´t sell that bull to Americans. It just don´t go...

yeah, that's a problem of the red card rule, not of the tiebreakers. The same can happen in a head to head match, where a team gets reduced to 10 against its direct opponent and ends up losing, and maybe can't even hope to recover in the last game because the head-to-head result is a loss.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Maybe they though that choosing goal difference first instead of direct result,will encourage teams to score more goals .

But it´s unfair. Imagine Hungary went on to the 2nd round in 1982 on the advantage of their 10-1 against Honduras. You can´t penalize other teams in tie breaker for those who got lucky in a give-up-game by the opponent.

Ok, well you can... in soccer.

If they wan´t high scoring*, just make the goals bigger since people got bigger the past 100 years. Only that Fifa (and Hockey BTW) didn´t realize.
30 cm in width & 30 in height might be enough. We have approx. 1 shot hitting goal-posts per game this WC. Thus making goals bigger, improves scoring by one goal per game. Easy like that.

* Actually this WC seems high scoring. But hey, I think nobody would hate even more 3-2 games instead of 2-1s...

 

[Amsterhammer]

Anyway, ofcourse Suarez is a world class player. He played at Ajax. Duh.

This.

I enjoyed your ritual destruction of Steeevie ****ing G, Hitch. I loathe the qwunt.

The Dutch studio pundits were all real sorry for England. I wasn't.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

yeah, that's a problem of the red card rule, not of the tiebreakers. The same can happen in a head to head match, where a team gets reduced to 10 against its direct opponent and ends up losing, and maybe can't even hope to recover in the last game because the head-to-head result is a loss.

You have the same problem now. Teams that got red carded are on the bad end anyway. It´s a game decider. A stupid rule. But to get further advantages in tie breakers with other teams is a little too much.

If the head-to-head is applied, everybody knows where they are at. Not that you have to look/hear at other fields if the score there is 6 or 8-0...

 

[purcell]

Only two teams matter.

Argentina and Uruguay. Has always been thus. I thiink this year I will have a team in the finals.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Association Football is by a large margin the biggest sport on earth, why does it need to change its rules so the Americans can understand it? I also think saying that the red card/triple penalization of a foul rule won't wash with Americans is kind of nonsense when you think of penalty shots/penalty box time in hockey, or spot fouls in American football for far less egregious penalties than several which can only net 5- or 15-yard penalties (not to mention that apart from intentional grounding, the vast majority of offensive penalties do not yield a loss of down).

Really, it's that things like that are institutionalized in the sport. To an outsider, several of these things may seem absurd (and as such, the US which does not traditionally follow soccer may think some of these things ridiculous), but in most soccer-playing nations it's just part of the game, same as various rules of American sports seem strange to those who don't watch them as a matter of course.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I loved that save by Suarez instantly back then.

 

[purcell]

Association Football is by a large margin the biggest sport on earth, why does it need to change its rules so the Americans can understand it? I also think saying that the red card/triple penalization of a foul rule won't wash with Americans is kind of nonsense when you think of penalty shots/penalty box time in hockey, or spot fouls in American football for far less egregious penalties than several which can only net 5- or 15-yard penalties (not to mention that apart from intentional grounding, the vast majority of offensive penalties do not yield a loss of down).

Really, it's that things like that are institutionalized in the sport. To an outsider, several of these things may seem absurd (and as such, the US which does not traditionally follow soccer may think some of these things ridiculous), but in most soccer-playing nations it's just part of the game, same as various rules of American sports seem strange to those who don't watch them as a matter of course.

The worst part about American fans ( happens every 4 years) is how all the message boards light up with people demanding instant video replay of contested plays or calls.

They have been fed pablum that makes most mainstream sports in the US unwatchable, and that is what they think soccer should be as well.

 

[ferryman]

They're not out yet, they could make it yet if Italy beats both Costa Rica and Uruguay.

And the small matter of beating Costa Rica by enough goals. They can only go through on goal difference...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Association Football is by a large margin the biggest sport on earth, why does it need to change its rules so the Americans can understand it? I also think saying that the red card/triple penalization of a foul rule won't wash with Americans is kind of nonsense when you think of penalty shots/penalty box time in hockey, or spot fouls in American football for far less egregious penalties than several which can only net 5- or 15-yard penalties (not to mention that apart from intentional grounding, the vast majority of offensive penalties do not yield a loss of down).

Really, it's that things like that are institutionalized in the sport. To an outsider, several of these things may seem absurd (and as such, the US which does not traditionally follow soccer may think some of these things ridiculous), but in most soccer-playing nations it's just part of the game, same as various rules of American sports seem strange to those who don't watch them as a matter of course.

A spot foul gets you penalized for that play. Not for the reminder of the game, not for further games, not for tie breakers, not double, not triple. I don´t know how rules could be more fair than that... You keep your players, nobody gets sanctioned for a "yellow card", and must miss important games (like Cahill for AUS, or Ballack in 2002 the final)

I think USA is a big future market. So it might make sense to bring the rules to 2014 standards, and not living in 1914.

BTW, I thought the soccer rules were ok until the mid 80s when I found out there could be made better ones, far better ones. Since then: ... zilch improvement (ok, 2 inch improvement with the goal line cam)...
What I want to say with that: If people don´t know it could be better, they think they are ok with existing rules.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A spot foul gets you penalized for that play. Not for the reminder of the game, not for further games, not for tie breakers, not double, not triple. I don´t know how rules could be more fair than that...

I think USA is a big future market. So it might make sense to bring the rules to 2014 standards, and not living in 1914.

BTW, I thought the soccer rules were ok until the mid 80s when I found out there could be made better ones, far better ones. Since then: ... zilch improvement (ok, 2 inch improvement with the goal line cam)...

So basically, a team can get away with persistent fouls, because they can't be penalized for longer than the present play for the sake of fairness. That may be fine in a stop-start game like American football, or in ice hockey where rolling changes mean entire lines can substitute together in a matter of seconds, but in a game where you have to go 90 minutes not being able to give a team a longer penalization for persistent infringement is going to beg for Battle of Santiago type games taking place consistently.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

They have been fed pablum that makes most mainstream sports in the US unwatchable, and that is what they think soccer should be as well.

Last time I checked... popularity for NFL is higher than ever. And if US people want replay for soccer... well, maybe they actually think their sports are watchable. OFC they are, says a good ol soccer born german.

 

[Sciocco]

Association Football is by a large margin the biggest sport on earth, why does it need to change its rules so the Americans can understand it?

I hope it never does.

I live in America, Philadelphia-ish to be precise and I cannot stand the obsession with Football (NFL), baseball and basketball. They are ****ing horrible to watch and they get shoved down everyone's throats at every possible opportunity.

If Football (soccer) is to take hold in America, Americans should watch it for what it is and not wish for it to be like the three sports I already mentioned.

I do like hockey (nhl, some other leagues as well) though. It's my favorite to be precise.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So basically, a team can get away with persistent fouls, because they can't be penalized for longer than the present play for the sake of fairness. That may be fine in a stop-start game like American football, or in ice hockey where rolling changes mean entire lines can substitute together in a matter of seconds, but in a game where you have to go 90 minutes not being able to give a team a longer penalization for persistent infringement is going to beg for Battle of Santiago type games taking place consistently.

OK, last night the camerron player lost it for a second. Now his team is penalized for the whole game, and other teams with no influence are in further tie breaker, since CRO had an easy shoot-out. That is fair?

No, a team can´t get away with ongoing fouls. You won´t win a football game with 150 yards in penalties (circa 15 fouls). But you and other teams arn´t penalized further.
And if you lose it for a second, you go to the pen box (hockey), or get flagged 15 yards (that´s a big pen, a very big one). But you are not penalized for a whole game for a single foul.
Very fair those rules...

 

[The Hitch]

Association Football is by a large margin the biggest sport on earth, why does it need to change its rules so the Americans can understand it? I also think saying that the red card/triple penalization of a foul rule won't wash with Americans is kind of nonsense when you think of penalty shots/penalty box time in hockey, or spot fouls in American football for far less egregious penalties than several which can only net 5- or 15-yard penalties (not to mention that apart from intentional grounding, the vast majority of offensive penalties do not yield a loss of down).

Really, it's that things like that are institutionalized in the sport. To an outsider, several of these things may seem absurd (and as such, the US which does not traditionally follow soccer may think some of these things ridiculous), but in most soccer-playing nations it's just part of the game, same as various rules of American sports seem strange to those who don't watch them as a matter of course.

To be fair just because Football is the biggest sport doesn't mean it can't be improved.

It has become the worlds biggest sport largely through luck, the luck of the technological revolution and globalization happening when it did.

Precisely because its the worlds biggest sport it has never needed to evolve. Things get better through competition. Football has been the be all end all for half a century.

Sure some of the things Foxxy proposes are unnecesary. But with red cards for example I think he has a point. I dont know if there is a solution but they seem to kill games too often.
Bare in mind when red cards were first introduced it wasn't such a big penalty since individual play was more important. all these decades later teamwork is so important. A team loses a player it often outweighs the actual punishment.

Referees realize this so sometimes they let players off the second yellow like Lugano today. The system is imperfect.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

OK, last night the camerron player lost it for a second. Now his team is penalized for the whole game, and other teams with no influence are in further tie breaker, since CRO had an easy shoot-out. That is fair?

No, a team can´t get away with ongoing fouls. You won´t win a football game with 150 yards in penalties (circa 15 fouls). But you and other teams arn´t penalized further.
And if you lose it for a second, you go to the pen box (hockey), or get flagged 15 yards (that´s a big pen, a very big one). But you are not penalized for a whole game for a single foul.
Very fair those rules...

People get ejected in US sports. It's just that they don't have to play a man down, they just can't use that one player anymore. And you could argue that for serious foul play (which is what it takes to get ejected) that's not actually penalty enough.

It's also a better deterrent of foul play to send players off, since by getting themselves sent off due to a moment of utter stupidity, they ruin things for the whole team.

 

[kingjr]

Referees realize this so sometimes they let players off the second yellow like Lugano today. The system is imperfect.

It was Godin actually

 

[Libertine Seguros]

TSure some of the things Foxxy proposes are unnecesary. But with red cards for example I think he has a point. I dont know if there is a solution but they seem to kill games too often.
Bare in mind when red cards were first introduced it wasn't such a big penalty since individual play was more important. all these decades later teamwork is so important. A team loses a player it often outweighs the actual punishment.

Well, in the original days of the introduction of cards, they were given out much more rarely than today as well.