File under "You have got to be &$(%ing kidding me?!

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Mar 13, 2009
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Cookster15 said:
Yeh, it was a worry but those incidents mean nothing in terms of Evans doping or not. Just means Evans is a prickly character when he is doing his job and under pressure. I think when the pressure is off Evans can be quite calm. I know people who were at the closing ceremony of the London Olympics who said Evans was one of the easiest people to talk to on the field at that time and very free with his time and words. By contrast there was an Australian gold medallist who shall remain nameless who was quite prickly and even arrogant towards their fellow Aussie team mates. These are personality traits not indications of possible doping.
lots see that as a roid rage, I might have even jumped on that meme.


but i think Cuddles is merely on the autism spectrum, v high functioning. And the stress and anxiety erupted. You never saw it with Armstrong, but leading the tour, in the yellow, the press conferences, the stress, Armstrong was the exception. Come on, (other) folks here, you could see this as quite NORMAL behaviour.

its really a confirmation bias. you see him as a doper, you will see it as roid rage.

i think cuddles did a little bit to get by, I dont even think he did blood bags or much epo. call me a fool you are welcome.

but these instances, Evans was a pacificist, the least aggressive person. He would not have been like Bobby Jullich and Jerome Bliejlevens or Tom Steel's bidon.

The Clinic tends to lose rigour, when rigour is what should be strived for, when all we usually have is circumstantial and indirect evidence, it is more important to achieve a rigour.
 
Jan 27, 2010
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42x16ss said:
Really? Several AIS sources say that Evans is still the highest they've ever tested..
Maybe Evans should repopulate some current data...and get his VO2Max tested again...

but after I think about it, with all the dope he's had over the year, and genetic transformation from doping...he shouldn't bother. The test would be invalid.
 
Cookster15 said:
Yes I saw the stage - or at least the highlights. He was with Periero. The GC group had little reason to chase just keep the time gain under control. If Armstrong and Co had been with Evans on the Aubisque it would have been a lot different. You use the Aubisque or Mende to support your case but ignore how he was dropped on other mountains like AX-3.
He wasn't with Periero, he was way ahead of him on Aubisque. Mende was extremely fast that year. It doesn't matter how much he was dropped before, it doesn't make his performances less impressive/suspicious (Especially as his performances drastically improved after the 2nd rest day, also known as BB day). Do you think Floyd's ride on Alpe in '06 was normal because he bonked the following day? Or was it his ride to Morzine that was ordinary since he wasn't anywhere near the others the day before? :rolleyes: I guess Froome wasn't impressive at all on Ax-3 or Ventoux neither since he lost time later in the third week.
 
Neworld said:
Maybe Evans should repopulate some current data...and get his VO2Max tested again...

but after I think about it, with all the dope he's had over the year, and genetic transformation from doping...he shouldn't bother. The test would be invalid.
True, if he was retested in his '07 TDF form, the testers would have dropped several bricks on the floor:D :cool:

The Evans/Contador/Chicken shootout is still one of the craziest things I've ever seen! Anyone who suspects Evans was cleans needs to rewatch the TTs and mountains from that tour. Hilarious, awe inspiring stuff.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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if Evans tested at only 86, definitely not higher than Walker. Or the record is for the rower. But, as I have previously qualified, rowers always hit a higher 02
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
True, if he was retested in his '07 TDF form, the testers would have dropped several bricks on the floor:D :cool:

The Evans/Contador/Chicken shootout is still one of the craziest things I've ever seen! Anyone who suspects Evans was cleans needs to rewatch the TTs and mountains from that tour. Hilarious, awe inspiring stuff.
this is a little mischevious. Evans could never hold their wheel. He would try, and go with them for 3-5 mins, and a couple of miles, then he would semi-blow, not a proper fade, and then <stfu!> Levi would pass him.


thnkx/ respect/ reference reallyfakefrankie. you know who i mean.
 
May 20, 2010
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Hearsay: while MTBing CE dabbled with EPO amongst a range of ergogenic aids. Whether this continued and to what extent????
 
Mar 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
if Evans tested at only 86, definitely not higher than Walker. Or the record is for the rower. But, as I have previously qualified, rowers always hit a higher 02
and the trackie who won the gold with mcgrory at sydney in the madison. brett aitken. and as hog says, Brad MCGee tested higher that 86 in his VO2.

I wanna compare Mcgee to Wiggo and to Millar. I hear that Piotr Mazur tested higher than Millar at the camp at Saunier. and Mazur was a roomie with my favourite rider Ricky Riccio at the Giro, but Mazur, was on bread and water.

wonder if D-Q heard much about Peter. That guy had watts coming out of orifices.
 
May 26, 2010
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JA.Tri said:
Hearsay: while MTBing CE dabbled with EPO amongst a range of ergogenic aids. Whether this continued and to what extent????
It continued unabated to a huge extent. He podium many GTs(4) and won a TdF.
 
May 26, 2010
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blackcat said:
but he was not the crazy ret@rd of the others.
No he wasn't and that may have prolonged his career and gave him the TdF victory that ensured he will be remembered.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
No he wasn't and that may have prolonged his career and gave him the TdF victory that ensured he will be remembered.
I am conflicted. cos it sounded like i was doing the apologia for cuddles. if he has doped, and I assume he was at it, he is as guilty as any
 
42x16ss said:
True, if he was retested in his '07 TDF form, the testers would have dropped several bricks on the floor:D :cool:

The Evans/Contador/Chicken shootout is still one of the craziest things I've ever seen! Anyone who suspects Evans was cleans needs to rewatch the TTs and mountains from that tour. Hilarious, awe inspiring stuff.
I don't remember Evans being in that shootout. It was definitely between Contador and the Chicken.

I believe that he doped, but don't exaggerate your note on him.
 
Escarabajo said:
I don't remember Evans being in that shootout. It was definitely between Contador and the Chicken.

I believe that he doped, but don't exaggerate your note on him.
He finished 23 seconds (2nd closest finish ever iirc) behind Contador.

Seems he was definately in the mix to me.

I might add that that year Contador did PDB faster than Pantani 1998.

That year also, Di Luca one a gt and passed all the tests, Menchov won a gt and passed all the tests, Contador passed all the tests, Rasmussen who ****ing admits he doped for the whole thing passed the tests.

In that climate Evans comes 23 seconds behind a guy going faster than EPO Pantani?

42x16ss is as always spot on, when he says its wrong to even suspect Evans could have been clean.
 
Netserk said:
He wasn't with Periero, he was way ahead of him on Aubisque. Mende was extremely fast that year. It doesn't matter how much he was dropped before, it doesn't make his performances less impressive/suspicious (Especially as his performances drastically improved after the 2nd rest day, also known as BB day). Do you think Floyd's ride on Alpe in '06 was normal because he bonked the following day? Or was it his ride to Morzine that was ordinary since he wasn't anywhere near the others the day before? :rolleyes: I guess Froome wasn't impressive at all on Ax-3 or Ventoux neither since he lost time later in the third week.
You guess right. Afterall Santamborgio immediately proved he was clean at the 2013 Giro by being so poor in the second half of the race.
 
The Hitch said:
He finished 23 seconds (2nd closest finish ever iirc) behind Contador.

Seems he was definately in the mix to me.

I might add that that year Contador did PDB faster than Pantani 1998.

That year also, Di Luca one a gt and passed all the tests, Menchov won a gt and passed all the tests, Contador passed all the tests, Rasmussen who ****ing admits he doped for the whole thing passed the tests.

In that climate Evans comes 23 seconds behind a guy going faster than EPO Pantani?

42x16ss is as always spot on, when he says its wrong to even suspect Evans could have been clean.
In my eyes he was never, part of that shootout. I watched a different Tour de France that you two. Just saw the times up the climbs and he was always behind the shootout and sucking wheels quite a few times. The TT's might be the only place where he took advantage of the so call shootout.

I am not saying he did not dope. But he was never part of that shootout.

In PDB he was ~2 minutes behind.

In one of the climbs Contador even asked Evans to help with him and he could not even hold his wheel. Not close. Only after a collective collaboration he was caught.

Again, dope yes, part of the shootout, no.


http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
In my eyes he was never, part of that shootout. I watched a different Tour de France that you two. Just saw the times up the climbs and he was always behind the shootout and sucking wheels quite a few times. The TT's might be the only place where he took advantage of the so call shootout.

I am not saying he did not dope. But he was never part of that shootout.

In PDB he was ~2 minutes behind.

In one of the climbs Contador even asked Evans to help with him and he could not even hold his wheel. Not close. Only after a collective collaboration he was caught.

Again, dope yes, part of the shootout, no.


http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/
I remember seeing that exchange as you did. Cadel could have actually performed without the gas because the Others' tactics were so poor.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
In my eyes he was never, part of that shootout. I watched a different Tour de France that you two. Just saw the times up the climbs and he was always behind the shootout and sucking wheels quite a few times. The TT's might be the only place where he took advantage of the so call shootout.

I am not saying he did not dope. But he was never part of that shootout.

In PDB he was ~2 minutes behind.

In one of the climbs Contador even asked Evans to help with him and he could not even hold his wheel. Not close. Only after a collective collaboration he was caught.

Again, dope yes, part of the shootout, no.


http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/
Oldman said:
I remember seeing that exchange as you did. Cadel could have actually performed without the gas because the Others' tactics were so poor.
+2
+2

like Escarabojo and Oldman. I think I said it a page back.

folks, it is important to be rigorous when all one has are their Clinic 12 lens. Ok, some fuzzy links to Ferrari, but not like the others who have been on his training camps. And Evans is not that strategic or duplicitous, he would have managed a better team, and had riders ride for him, and been much stronger politically. Ask Mcewen on this, Mcewen was quite indignant at Evans team leadership when he was the opposite of the politically dialled in and opposite of politically mahciavellian.

He was not swapping turns with Contador and Rasmussen. He was struggling to hold their wheel, and was dropped once, and Levi who did the Levi metronome climbing tactic, went past him one day at the Levi snail pace.

Hog, you gotta up ur game brah. no BS. as yes, I am a master of hyperbole also.
 
Escarabajo said:
In my eyes he was never, part of that shootout. I watched a different Tour de France that you two. Just saw the times up the climbs and he was always behind the shootout and sucking wheels quite a few times. The TT's might be the only place where he took advantage of the so call shootout.

I am not saying he did not dope. But he was never part of that shootout.

In PDB he was ~2 minutes behind.

In one of the climbs Contador even asked Evans to help with him and he could not even hold his wheel. Not close. Only after a collective collaboration he was caught.

Again, dope yes, part of the shootout, no.


http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/
Excuse me? He was up to his eyeballs. Evans was the third most consistent climber that TdF (maybe, MAYBE 4th after Soler) even with Rasmussen (backed by Menchov and co.) and the Popo/Levi/Contador 1-2-3 working him over every mountain. As part of a sprinter's team too.

Then he blew them out of the water in the TTs to boot! Over 1 minute into AC on the first and nearly 90 seconds on the second. He took 1'41 out of Rasmussen in the first TT. It took two of the most blatant topups in cycling history (Vino and Levi) to beat him.

Take away his Jour Sans on Plateau de Beille and Evans would have beaten Rasmussen as well as Contador.
 
blackcat said:
He was not swapping turns with Contador and Rasmussen. He was struggling to hold their wheel, and was dropped once, and Levi who did the Levi metronome climbing tactic, went past him one day at the Levi snail pace.
He was riding conservatively, leaving enough in the tank to crush the TT's while limiting the damage. Evans had the weakest team, poorest bunch positioning skills and the least explosive climbing and still came within 23 seconds of stealing the win against two guys who would have made Pantani blush with their efforts.
 
Escarabajo said:
I don't remember Evans being in that shootout. It was definitely between Contador and the Chicken.

I believe that he doped, but don't exaggerate your note on him.
Even if the Chicken stayed in the race, he still had a 50km TT to come. Evans was TTing like a freight train that TdF, it took two of the most ridiculous rest day refills in history to put him into 2nd. Vino and Levi were off the charts those two days :eek:
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
He was riding conservatively, leaving enough in the tank to crush the TT's while limiting the damage. Evans had the weakest team, poorest bunch positioning skills and the least explosive climbing and still came within 23 seconds of stealing the win against two guys who would have made Pantani blush with their efforts.
Contador had a bad first 10 days.

If USPS worked for LEvi, and Contador worked for LEvi instead of Levi working for Contador, Levi wins that Tour by 2 minutes, when you neutralise the time bonuses.

now, one could argue, LEvi did get the benefit of Evans going into the red following Rass and Contador, whilst Levi did his metronome BS shtick. and just continued to tap his rhythm out.

Rass could not timetrial then. Levi could, but he never had Evans pedigree, uphill, or in tt. ok, Evans might have been doing to same dope as Levi. I dont buy that.

And Alberto was in one of his first 21 day stage races. So he was not gonna blast out his best tt. So no surprise, he was not tt'ing at what he would develop to be the best GC chrono rider.

until the dopers Froome and Wiggo.

yes... you could add, Evans to the list. like others, I have to think he was with it. Rominger, Ferrari, even if he did not subscribe to Ferrari as his coach, and went back to his Mapei and AIS coach Sassi. (nb. I am doing the devils advocate FOR cuddles. for him.I am aware of this, hence the idiom, devil's advocate. I have also mentioned pure heresay and chinese whispers against him too. check my record for that.)

yeah, there is a significant amount of circumstantial evidence against cuddles too. Its all on here. I was one of the contributors to things no one else was aware on this Clinic 12 forum.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
Even if the Chicken stayed in the race, he still had a 50km TT to come. Evans was TTing like a freight train that TdF, it took two of the most ridiculous rest day refills in history to put him into 2nd. Vino and Levi were off the charts those two days :eek:
chickens embarrassing tt was in 06. this year, chicken had rectified he weakness in the tt. see the first one. Chicken had ameliorated losses to the GC leader to about ~2min. Was it Vino who won the first? from Evans, then Wiggo?
 
blackcat said:
chickens embarrassing tt was in 06. this year, chicken had rectified he weakness in the tt. see the first one. Chicken had ameliorated losses to the GC leader to about ~2min. Was it Vino who won the first? from Evans, then Wiggo?
Yeah, Vino miraculously won that TT over Evans a couple of days after losing 10 minutes and gaining around 40 stitches in his knee ;) Evans was second, coming in a minute over AC (who was still 7th) Chicken was 10th, 1"41 off Evans. Wigans was 1 minute behind Evans in 4th.

Edit: to show how blatant Levi's 2nd rest day refill was, he came in at around 1 minute down on Evans as well, yet beat him by over 50s in the 2nd TT...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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42x16ss said:
Excuse me? He was up to his eyeballs. Evans was the third most consistent climber that TdF (maybe, MAYBE 4th after Soler) even with Rasmussen (backed by Menchov and co.) and the Popo/Levi/Contador 1-2-3 working him over every mountain. As part of a sprinter's team too.

Then he blew them out of the water in the TTs to boot! Over 1 minute into AC on the first and nearly 90 seconds on the second. He took 1'41 out of Rasmussen in the first TT. It took two of the most blatant topups in cycling history (Vino and Levi) to beat him.

Take away his Jour Sans on Plateau de Beille and Evans would have beaten Rasmussen as well as Contador.
Contador was 23 on his second TdF was not he? some context
 

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