Yeah, but the unpaved road is really bad and I was more looking for a shorter, easier finish after a really hard climb, Pic de Chateau Renard would add 10km at 9% on top of Saint-Veran...
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I'm against paving in general. There are enough paved roads. Resurface those that need it, that's enough.
True. I would actually rather have this after Col de Vars or something as the main MTF/first stage of a mountain block.Yeah, but the unpaved road is really bad and I was more looking for a shorter, easier finish after a really hard climb, Pic de Chateau Renard would add 10km at 9% on top of Saint-Veran...
Glandon south is hard ...but very irregular - I guess you must really, really dislike the long stretch of false flat before the top, as it's not one of the worst offenders.
Definitely way more deserving of its current HC status than Glières east, which is steep but way too short. Then you have climbs like Envalira north and indeed Arcalis...
Even Luz-Ardiden is less deserving, via the classic ascent. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. I'm okay with that climb making the cut, but I'd use the Route du Sud ascent
Some impressive knowledge about roads and climbs here, chapeau. I'd like to think of myself as a cycling connoisseur, but in this department I obviously have my superiors. It's not that I'm bad at recognizing obstacles and areas from nowadays pro cycling, at all, but a few here seem to have a much broader expertise.
How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!
How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!
Probably one of the most pointless subjects I know a lot about tbh apart from showing off by recognizing the climbs your buddy did on his holiday ride just by the Strava profile
Not a mountain but I remember a climb as steep as a wall (or a mur, as we say in Danish) that was used on stage 1 in 2019 in some Belgian town that started with G. It was cobbled and there was even a chapel at the top. GVA got the polkadots there.
Maybe that could be used again. And maybe they can even find other climbs in the vicinity on the same stage. Maybe there are even other cobbled climbs in the area, who knows?
Maybe that could be used again. And maybe they can even find other climbs in the vicinity on the same stage. Maybe there are even other cobbled climbs in the area, who knows?
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La Mauselaine or what it's called was a very nice finish in 2014 and is a great finish for a first week or intermediary stage.
The only reason to pave the mighty Col du Parpaillon is the Tour. Beside that, there is no need, because of the parallel running Col du Vars, which is the best connection for tourists and shepherds.
Building the road for the Parpaillon was very difficult. It took 20 years. Especially the long tunnel was difficult to build in the high alpine terrain. And it's also quite difficult to maintain this tunnel. It's often wet and/or iced. The actual pass summit is located at 2780 meters above sea level. However, this can not be accessed.
This video shows the road and the tunnel. There you can see well how much work would be needed to have a passable road here.
Personally I'm all in for Superbagnères. It was last used in the same edition as Granon. That stage produced huge gaps, which is not a big surprise.
Thanks to the Race Design Thread, I have examined historical race routes, alternative routes, and exchanged ideas about routes for a decade. A deep knowledge of the actual illuminates the possible and the plausible.
Superbagneres is what I'd consider the French Farrapona and I feel it's mostly rated so highly because it was last raced in days when mountain stages were overall raced much better.
Superbagnères is a lot harder than Farrapona - the former is a worthy HC climb, the latter a clear cat. 1 - and Farrapona would be a lot better if they didn't keep putting harder MTFs the day after it. Aside from Portet and maybe Hautacam, there aren't many harder MTFs ASO would realistically do the day after Superbagnères.
It's a good vanilla combo, but not something special. The Pyrenees don't have that much choice for HC MTFs though.
Think it's slightly harder than Luz Ardiden, but it's a backloaded climb which probably means it has better meh stages and worse great stages.
Previously used (additional) MTFs that are harder: Tourmalet, Aubisque, Plateau de Beille, Pierre Saint-Martin. All six can easily be used the day after Superbagnères.
Similar to Hautacam, none of those are that much harder though, and certainly wouldn't block action on Superbagnères to anything like the extent Angliru has on Farrapona.
A Larrau MTF would be cool, but when it comes to the French part of Euskadi I have more faith in the Vuelta than the Tour when it comes to actually using those climbs.
Personally I'm all in for Superbagnères. It was last used in the same edition as Granon. That stage produced huge gaps, which is not a big surprise.
They did a very similar stage in 1989 as well. Fignon was struggling that day, but Lemond wouldn't attack from distance. Fignon recovered and took time on the final climb
I don’t have nearly the knowledge of some on here, but I’m surprised to not see Lac de Cap de Long mentioned. It can’t be used due to being part of a national park.
I think a drawback to using might be that there’s no road out, so would have to be a MTF, and the long valley road leading up to it from St Lary might kill the chances of any breaks that had gone over whatever previous climbs had been used.
Still an absolutely spectacular climb.
I think a drawback to using might be that there’s no road out, so would have to be a MTF, and the long valley road leading up to it from St Lary might kill the chances of any breaks that had gone over whatever previous climbs had been used.
Still an absolutely spectacular climb.
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