Tour de France Forgotten climbs at the Tour de France

[Mayomaniac]

I dunno but there's plenty of space at the observatory at Pic de Chateau Renard above this.

Anyway I'm assuming Parpaillon is never gonna get road works and get used?

Yeah, but the unpaved road is really bad and I was more looking for a shorter, easier finish after a really hard climb, Pic de Chateau Renard would add 10km at 9% on top of Saint-Veran...

 

[BlueRoads]

I'm against paving in general. There are enough paved roads. Resurface those that need it, that's enough.

 

[rghysens]

I raise you Glandon south, Aubisque east and Arcalis.

I raise you soulour west ( 2km at 5% or so) as a 2nd cat

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'm against paving in general. There are enough paved roads. Resurface those that need it, that's enough.

Pretty much this.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Cime de la Bonette-Restefond IMHO should be often part of the TdF, it‘s the highest Col of the Alps…

On the other hand, Plateau des belles filles is part of the Tour every second year, which is maybe a bit (too) much.

So better more Bonette, less PDBF…

 

[houtdffan]

I raise you soulour west ( 2km at 5% or so) as a 2nd cat

Soulour west is usually uncategorized. It should be a cat 4, however

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, but the unpaved road is really bad and I was more looking for a shorter, easier finish after a really hard climb, Pic de Chateau Renard would add 10km at 9% on top of Saint-Veran...

True. I would actually rather have this after Col de Vars or something as the main MTF/first stage of a mountain block.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I raise you Glandon south, Aubisque east and Arcalis.

Glandon south is hard ...but very irregular - I guess you must really, really dislike the long stretch of false flat before the top, as it's not one of the worst offenders.

Definitely way more deserving of its current HC status than Glières east, which is steep but way too short. Then you have climbs like Envalira north and indeed Arcalis...

Even Luz-Ardiden is less deserving, via the classic ascent. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. I'm okay with that climb making the cut, but I'd use the Route du Sud ascent

 

[Wvv]

Some impressive knowledge about roads and climbs here, chapeau. I'd like to think of myself as a cycling connoisseur, but in this department I obviously have my superiors. It's not that I'm bad at recognizing obstacles and areas from nowadays pro cycling, at all, but a few here seem to have a much broader expertise.

How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!

 

[Red Rick]

Some impressive knowledge about roads and climbs here, chapeau. I'd like to think of myself as a cycling connoisseur, but in this department I obviously have my superiors. It's not that I'm bad at recognizing obstacles and areas from nowadays pro cycling, at all, but a few here seem to have a much broader expertise.

How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!

Probably one of the most pointless subjects I know a lot about tbh apart from showing off by recognizing the climbs your buddy did on his holiday ride just by the Strava profile

 

[tobydawq]

Not a mountain but I remember a climb as steep as a wall (or a mur, as we say in Danish) that was used on stage 1 in 2019 in some Belgian town that started with G. It was cobbled and there was even a chapel at the top. GVA got the polkadots there.

Maybe that could be used again. And maybe they can even find other climbs in the vicinity on the same stage. Maybe there are even other cobbled climbs in the area, who knows?

 

[Red Rick]

La Mauselaine or what it's called was a very nice finish in 2014 and is a great finish for a first week or intermediary stage.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Anyway I'm assuming Parpaillon is never gonna get road works and get used?

The only reason to pave the mighty Col du Parpaillon is the Tour. Beside that, there is no need, because of the parallel running Col du Vars, which is the best connection for tourists and shepherds.

Building the road for the Parpaillon was very difficult. It took 20 years. Especially the long tunnel was difficult to build in the high alpine terrain. And it's also quite difficult to maintain this tunnel. It's often wet and/or iced. The actual pass summit is located at 2780 meters above sea level. However, this can not be accessed.

View: https://youtu.be/koiKJZ5ZtAY?t=301


This video shows the road and the tunnel. There you can see well how much work would be needed to have a passable road here.

Personally I'm all in for Superbagnères. It was last used in the same edition as Granon. That stage produced huge gaps, which is not a big surprise.

 

[Netserk]

Some impressive knowledge about roads and climbs here, chapeau. I'd like to think of myself as a cycling connoisseur, but in this department I obviously have my superiors. It's not that I'm bad at recognizing obstacles and areas from nowadays pro cycling, at all, but a few here seem to have a much broader expertise.

How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!

Thanks to the Race Design Thread, I have examined historical race routes, alternative routes, and exchanged ideas about routes for a decade. A deep knowledge of the actual illuminates the possible and the plausible.

 

[Red Rick]

Superbagneres is what I'd consider the French Farrapona and I feel it's mostly rated so highly because it was last raced in days when mountain stages were overall raced much better.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Superbagneres is what I'd consider the French Farrapona and I feel it's mostly rated so highly because it was last raced in days when mountain stages were overall raced much better.

It would be a great MTF with Port de Bales right before it, I have to say that.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Superbagneres is what I'd consider the French Farrapona and I feel it's mostly rated so highly because it was last raced in days when mountain stages were overall raced much better.

Superbagnères is a lot harder than Farrapona - the former is a worthy HC climb, the latter a clear cat. 1 - and Farrapona would be a lot better if they didn't keep putting harder MTFs the day after it. Aside from Portet and maybe Hautacam, there aren't many harder MTFs ASO would realistically do the day after Superbagnères.

 

[Red Rick]

It would be a great MTF with Port de Bales right before it, I have to say that.

It's a good vanilla combo, but not something special. The Pyrenees don't have that much choice for HC MTFs though.

Superbagnères is a lot harder than Farrapona - the former is a worthy HC climb, the latter a clear cat. 1 - and Farrapona would be a lot better if they didn't keep putting harder MTFs the day after it. Aside from Portet and maybe Hautacam, there aren't many harder MTFs ASO would realistically do the day after Superbagnères.

Think it's slightly harder than Luz Ardiden, but it's a backloaded climb which probably means it has better meh stages and worse great stages.

 

[Netserk]

Superbagnères is a lot harder than Farrapona - the former is a worthy HC climb, the latter a clear cat. 1 - and Farrapona would be a lot better if they didn't keep putting harder MTFs the day after it. Aside from Portet and maybe Hautacam, there aren't many harder MTFs ASO would realistically do the day after Superbagnères.

Previously used (additional) MTFs that are harder: Tourmalet, Aubisque, Plateau de Beille, Pierre Saint-Martin. All six can easily be used the day after Superbagnères.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Previously used (additional) MTFs that are harder: Tourmalet, Aubisque, Plateau de Beille, Pierre Saint-Martin. All six can easily be used the day after Superbagnères.

Similar to Hautacam, none of those are that much harder though, and certainly wouldn't block action on Superbagnères to anything like the extent Angliru has on Farrapona.

 

[Mayomaniac]

It's a good vanilla combo, but not something special. The Pyrenees don't have that much choice for HC MTFs though.

A Larrau MTF would be cool, but when it comes to the French part of Euskadi I have more faith in the Vuelta than the Tour when it comes to actually using those climbs.

 

[houtdffan]

Personally I'm all in for Superbagnères. It was last used in the same edition as Granon. That stage produced huge gaps, which is not a big surprise.

They did a very similar stage in 1989 as well. Fignon was struggling that day, but Lemond wouldn't attack from distance. Fignon recovered and took time on the final climb

 

[Leinster]

I don’t have nearly the knowledge of some on here, but I’m surprised to not see Lac de Cap de Long mentioned. It can’t be used due to being part of a national park.

I think a drawback to using might be that there’s no road out, so would have to be a MTF, and the long valley road leading up to it from St Lary might kill the chances of any breaks that had gone over whatever previous climbs had been used.

Still an absolutely spectacular climb.

 

[Gigs_98]

Some impressive knowledge about roads and climbs here, chapeau. I'd like to think of myself as a cycling connoisseur, but in this department I obviously have my superiors. It's not that I'm bad at recognizing obstacles and areas from nowadays pro cycling, at all, but a few here seem to have a much broader expertise.

How do some of you got to know all this? Because you're experienced bike riders yourself, you live nearby, you read a lot about race parcours, ... ? Tell me!

It's called internet addiction.

 

[Red Rick]

It's called internet addiction.

Why you gotta do me like that