From a doping point of view, what do you expect Froom in the vuelta?

[mastersracer]

Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You got it right, which is why LA had only one real event a year. I have spent sometime with Bodybuilders and you have to cycle in and out to get the maximum benefit. Although I think about the Big Mig, EddieM etc who were certainly juiced and won multiple GT in a year. But then the overhead of avoiding dope controls was much less back then perhaps even zero.

You have it exactly backwards. Not racing allows a cyclist to dope more, not less, due to fewer in competition tests, logistics of out of competition testing, etc. Also, from a US perspective, the Tour is the only race that mattered for LA.

The bodybuilding comparison is a bad one. Bodybuilders have to cycle off their doping protocols because they use 50x the dosage, which causes liver toxicity. Erythropoiesis-stimulating agents could be used long-term, particularly at micro-dosing levels. Fatigue is not due to the medical-related need to cycle off these drugs.

 

[thehog]

Today went according to your theory.

Not theory just fact. He's too nice to keep injecting back into his ankle. The vain must look terriable at the moment. All messed up. Dopers fatigue.

 

[Benotti69]

no it didn't. He only lost 35 seconds to the GC contenders. Besides, look at my previous post: "doper's fatigue" is a specious notion. Cyclists are not bodybuilders. Froome is plain fatigued. That goes against the conspiracy theorists who claimed Sky had found some secret way to maintain year-long peak form. But then there is no way to falsify these claims against Sky because a good performance is evidence of doping and a bad performance is evidence of doping.

Funny how no one has started a "Saxo Bank - how much more ridiculous can it get' thread. Their DS is again implicated in systematic doping (Hamilton's book) and they have riders at the front all day and 2 up the road waiting for AC to bridge...

how do you know there wasn't one already from previous years?

 

[Kwibus]

The clinic can be very entertaining. The theories here can really make me giggle at times. Sometimes there is good stuff as well.

What I'm more surprised about is that there is no Rodriguez thread yet? I was looking for one when I got here......

 

[thehog]

The clinic can be very entertaining. The theories here can really make me giggle at times. Sometimes there is good stuff as well.

What I'm more surprised about is that there is no Rodriguez thread yet? I was looking for one when I got here......

You didnt look too hard: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18359

 

[Fergoose]

So far this is just about the least eyebrow raising performance from Froome of the past 12 months; not what I was expecting. The top 3 don't seem unbeatable with each showing some weakness (Contador's endurance continues to decline year on year despite reaching what should be his physical peak, Valverde and Rodriguez have both initially been dropped on certain climbs). Froome would likely have been smoking them all on 2011 Vuelta & 2012 TdF form. Plus I doubt there is anything too suspicious in the power to weight calculations of final climbs.

Plus Froome's only losing seconds rather than minutes and putting in a fairly consistent performance with it. I was expecting him either to ace it or have a far steeper drop off (ala Cobo past 12 months is a perfect "Exhibit A" for my perception of a standard doper's performance). I'm still totally convinced Froome is at it, but if he has a season without bilharzia (or similar illness) as a perfect excuse to defend potential biopassport irregularities and gets a GT top 5, I may have to revisit my opinion of him. Never going to happen though, surely!

 

[Cycle Chic]

Roger Hammond on Froome

Roger Hammond on IT4's The Cycle Show on Froome:-

'15 months ago he wasnt a GC rider at all and now all of a sudden he's ridden Tour de France in support of Bradley Wiggins and now he's going into his second Grand Tour of the same season as a leader and huge expectations to win, I mean it was always a tall order and i think he's starting to find his limits....a lot of more high profile riders have struggled.'

Well at least someone has at last used the word SUDDEN to describe Froomes riding.

ITV4 Cycle Show not even mentioned Lance Armstrong - unless i missed it. Typical !!

 

[Parrot23]

Froome was definitely on the grassy knoll in '62. I'm sure. A fact.

Proven.

 

[Parrot23]

The clinic can be very entertaining. The theories here can really make me giggle at times. Sometimes there is good stuff as well.

Froome was definitely on the grassy knoll in '62. I'm sure. A fact. Proven.

We all need to look farther and wider to incorporate the full body of evidence to fit the theorem: Heads I win; tails you lose.

 

[Mellow Velo]

The clinic can be very entertaining. The theories here can really make me giggle at times. Sometimes there is good stuff as well.

What I'm more surprised about is that there is no Rodriguez thread yet? I was looking for one when I got here......

Yeah, it's become giggle central.

We've somehow gone from doping to maintain year round form to doper's fatigue blow up.
Not so much a theory as whichever way the wind blows, the shiite still has to hit Sky in the face.

Seriously, the guy who is getting his a*s handed to him on a plate, by two convicts and their mate in the Russian mafia, is still the only guy under heavy Clinic fire.

 

[the big ring]

Seriously, the guy who is getting his a*s handed to him on a plate, by two convicts and their mate in the Russian mafia, is still the only guy under heavy Clinic fire.

JRod threads to Mellow Velo. Come in Mellow Velo.

 

[Galic Ho]

Froome was definitely on the grassy knoll in '62. I'm sure. A fact. Proven.

We all need to look farther and wider to incorporate the full body of evidence to fit the theorem: Heads you win; tails you lose.

You might want to look into that link you posted for me the other day in another thread.

Grassy knoll in 1962? Kennedy was whacked in Dallas in November 1963. Surely you know that dude, weren't you around then? It was a good 19 years before I was born and I've known that for over half my life.

Argh, yes the OP, Froome. What thehog says. Not surprising he thought he could dope on a ballistic level without stopping. He's full of himself. Man he sure is determined to win a GT. Keep stepping it up Froome, you'll burst the bubble sooner, rather than later, and then it'll all end. Glad I don't have to listen to Matthew Keenan state he wishes Froome could win a GT. It's far too taxing.

 

[Galic Ho]

Yeah, it's become giggle central.

We've somehow gone from doping to maintain year round form to doper's fatigue blow up.
Not so much a theory as whichever way the wind blows, the shiite still has to hit Sky in the face.

Seriously, the guy who is getting his a*s handed to him on a plate, by two convicts and their mate in the Russian mafia, is still the only guy under heavy Clinic fire.

Where have you been? Everyone knows the Spanish dope. It was stated quite clearly after the Tour that the other teams would up their doping regime to match Sky. Movistar, Katusha and Saxo clearly appear to have done that. Sky can't help it Froome is new to the uber doping game and can't get his stuff together.

Kerrison and Leinders will file it away as a learning opportunity, don't you fret about that. They'll learn.

 

[Mellow Velo]

JRod threads to Mellow Velo. Come in Mellow Velo.

Sorry, my bad.
I missed the Froom in the thread title.
Thought it was a general doping at the Vuelta, thread.
Should have known better.

 

[the big ring]

Sorry, my bad.
I missed the Froom in the thread title.
Thought it was a general doping at the Vuelta, thread.
Should have known better.

Oh yes - what do you expect From in the Vuelta. Easy mistake. Didn't realise till you mentioned the title.

 

[sittingbison]

...Kerrison and Leinders will file it away as a learning opportunity, don't you fret about that. They'll learn.

marginal gains

 

[JimmyFingers]

The nonsense in this thread is embaressing, as people desperately revise various paradigms of Froome's doping to fit his current performance.

He looks human, he's riding normally. He's fatigued, normally. The parcours is so much more brutal than the Tour, the competitors are much, much tougher and Movistar and Saxo are attacking as a team much better than BMC or Liquigas managed in the Tour. Sky's tactics have also been appalling at times.

This was his big opportunity, first time as team leader, the chance to win a GT and establish himself as one of the top riders. If he was on a programme there's no way he would ditch it for this race, and the drivel about doper's fatigue or the various other theories how he's doping but not riding well are just red herrings spun by people trying to backtrack.

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

The nonsense in this thread is embaressing, as people desperately revise various paradigms of Froome's doping to fit his current performance.

He looks human, he's riding normally. He's fatigued, normally. The parcours is so much more brutal than the Tour, the competitors are much, much tougher and Movistar and Saxo are attacking as a team much better than BMC or Liquigas managed in the Tour. Sky's tactics have also been appalling at times.

This was his big opportunity, first time as team leader, the chance to win a GT and establish himself as one of the top riders. If he was on a programme there's no way he would ditch it for this race, and the drivel about doper's fatigue or the various other theories how he's doping but not riding well are just red herrings spun by people trying to backtrack.

Agreed. This thread is an absolute joke. Never read such rubbish. Doper's fatigue? Gimmie strength. Amazing that the Clinic still want to make it all about Froome when you have 3 Spaniards flying up the mountain like it was 2004 again.

 

[hrotha]

Agreed. This thread is an absolute joke. Never read such rubbish. Doper's fatigue? Gimmie strength. Amazing that the Clinic still want to make it all about Froome when you have 3 Spaniards flying up the mountain like it was 2004 again.

Two of them are convicted dopers. There's an active thread for the other one. They don't have many defenders.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Froome might be doing less well than expected but that does not mean that he or Sky are clean.

Dope might turn a donkey into a racehorse, but it does not follow that it will turn into Seabiscuit. Every race horse has its limits.

JRoid, Alderto and Piti - when in Spain... Froome 'poor' performance 'looks' poor because he's riding against 3 people who are partying like its 1999.

There were concerns that Sky in the TDF would unleash a new 'doping arms race' - the Spanish may well be introducing Sky to their new weapons.

Take out everything else and you still have a guy who after doing nothing for his whole career is contending for his third podium out of the last 3 GTs he's ridden.

 

[_frost]

Two of them are convicted dopers. There's an active thread for the other one. They don't have many defenders.

That doesn't make alternating between "inhuman performances"/"doper's fatigue" claims, which ever happens to better fit the days ride, any less ridiculous.

I personally believe that most top athletes, regardless of sport are doping. It's just that the arguments and claims in clinic are sometimes embarassingly stupid.

 

[maxmartin]

don't think he can win the whole thing. he will be here and there make the podium.

even that happens, that is slap to everybody's face who think cycling is getting cleaner

The Vuelta is almost over, pretty much as I expected. Although CF probably will get 4th place only because Valverde up his game play.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

The Vuelta is almost over, pretty much as I expected. Although CF probably will get 4th place only because Valverde up his game play.

So your prediction was (or will most likely be) incorrect?

 

[maxmartin]

So your prediction was (or will most likely be) incorrect?

pretty close 4th to 3rd. did you even read my prediction? Like I said I did not factor in Valverde before the vuelta started. Seems all Spanish podium is appropriate response for the SKY tour performance. Let me wondering how is Giro going to be raced next year.

 

[the big ring]

pretty close 4th to 3rd. did you even read my prediction? Like I said I did not factor in Valverde before the vuelta started. Seems all Spanish podium is appropriate response for the SKY tour performance. Let me wondering how is Giro going to be raced next year.

Liquigas to the fore?