From a doping point of view, what do you expect Froom in the vuelta?

[Cycle Chic]

Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

Just watch.

I,m with the Hog.....today he struggled....lets hope 'the wheels are coming off'

 

[Avoriaz]

Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Some think Wiggins has been, so why not Froome?

Perhaps he is just knackered after the Tour - not ridden by Contador or Rodriguez

 

[JimmyFingers]

So when he's riding fast he's doping and when he's riding slowly he's doping. Basically any given performance or behaviour means he's doping. There seems to be no scenario where he might be clean.

Sometimes this place surpasses itself. What utter drivel

 

[maxmartin]

So when he's riding fast he's doping and when he's riding slowly he's doping. Basically any given performance or behaviour means he's doping. There seems to be no scenario where he might be clean.

Sometimes this place surpasses itself. What utter drivel

I would call VDB2 slow and that is normal for a guy just did a big effort in the Tour. Alien is definitely not riding slow, he is in 3rd place and withing striking distance. You call a GT 3rd place slow?? Although CF did lose a little momentum, but short and steep climb is never his cup of tea. And anything can turn around in significant triple 14, 15. 16. After I saw the joke Tour, anything from alien CF will not surprise me.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I am really disappointed by Chris so far. But on the other hand, we are talking about Contador here. He sure as hell is no Cobo of course. He will rock on the long climbs like we are used to since september last year.

Go Chrissy!

 

[mastersracer]

Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

Just watch.

This is perhaps the most nonsensical thing you've said here. You can make up terms like 'doper's fatigue' but it's just plain fatigue. The comparison to bodybuilding reveals you don't know much about PEDs in cycling either. Even though it's doubtful a GC rider would still dope with testosterone, the dosages they would use are 50x less than what bodybuilders use. Body builders cycle because the high doses they use cause enormous side effects and dangerous conditions, such as liver toxicity. Biosimilar erythropoietins, especially in a micro-dosing protocol could be used year-round, but that wouldn't make sense. Chronic kidney patients have used them at higher doses long-term. The statement about the blood transfusion is also false. Froome would not have to cycle off such a protocol for the reasons you stated.

If he's fatigued, its etiology would be the same whether he's doping or not. Of course, that would go against the charge that Sky has figured out how to have long-term peaks or the common prediction that Froome was going to dominate the Vuelta. It could also be that he is performing at the same relative level, but has encountered a better GT rider in Contador. Whether he's doping or not, a drop in performance does not support your notion of 'doper's fatigue.'

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

Just watch.

Or it might just be like the British people are claiming. Froom's Schistosomiasis is on the run again and everytime he is performing bad its actually because his Schistosomiasis is tearing him apart, you see it comes in cycles just like doping ^^

I laughed abit when I heard that story from some of the brites ^^

 

[Dr.Sahl]

So when he's riding fast he's doping and when he's riding slowly he's doping. Basically any given performance or behaviour means he's doping. There seems to be no scenario where he might be clean.

Sometimes this place surpasses itself. What utter drivel

Well if I had not known he doped in his late teens I might have giving him some more slack ^^

But well.. obvious is obvious.. the u15 teens in the team I coach still make the joke (Froome Froome) he sure is fast, when someone sprints at training.... again obvious is obvious

 

[Cyivel]

I'm not saying Froome isn't doping or even that you aren't telling the truth but your claims are next to worthless in influencing my opinion of whether Froome is doping.

With all due respect.

 

[epluribusnev]

I would call VDB2 slow and that is normal for a guy just did a big effort in the Tour. Alien is definitely not riding slow, he is in 3rd place and withing striking distance. You call a GT 3rd place slow?? Although CF did lose a little momentum, but short and steep climb is never his cup of tea. And anything can turn around in significant triple 14, 15. 16. After I saw the joke Tour, anything from alien CF will not surprise me.

Although I strongly agree with your comment re: Froome's current 3rd place standing (especially considering his Tour/Olympic state of peak form - I know, "never really peaking, just maintaining 95% of peak form all season-long" ), I disagree with the bolded portion. I'm not certain whether you were able to watch the coverage of the 2011 Vuelta, but Froome seemed to excel on precisely the short & steep type of climbs. The link onlyshows a few minutes worth of the highlights of this particular stage, but there were a couple of stages where Froome displayed a Rasmussen/Contador-like ability to repeatedly sprint uphill, recover, then sprint again, dropping the other climbers. It was shocking to watch these displays at the time - having never seen any of his previous exploits, but he certainly seemed adept at short & steep climbs.

http://universalsports.com/video/20...age-17-christopher-froome-gets-the-stage-win/

 

[Big Doopie]

I would call VDB2 slow and that is normal for a guy just did a big effort in the Tour. Alien is definitely not riding slow, he is in 3rd place and withing striking distance. You call a GT 3rd place slow?? Although CF did lose a little momentum, but short and steep climb is never his cup of tea. And anything can turn around in significant triple 14, 15. 16. After I saw the joke Tour, anything from alien CF will not surprise me.

fascinating choice to use vdb2 as a reference for cleanliness.

wasn't he an 8 or 9 on the suspicion list?

i thought doped performances were the ones that fluctuated a huge amount through the season?

I thought doped performances were the ones that remained the same throughout a three week tour without showing fatigue...?

i stress i have no idea whether froome is doping. the main thing that goes against him is that he made the huge jump out of nowhere, so suspicion is fair. but his performance in the vuelta in and of itself is not proof of doping. hell he's only a fraction better than roche. is roche doping?

fascinating that all this energy towards calling froome a doper. meanwhile two convicted blood dopers are in the top four and no one is questioning them? valverde -- practically non-existant in the tour is now climbing with the very best...what is going on there? there's a jump?

my sense is riders are a little more wary of going over the top during the tour (police action?) and perhaps less so during the lax vuelta where the police could not care less...maybe that explains valverde and clentadope's perfs coming off doping sanctions...

 

[Dr.Sahl]

fascinating choice to use vdb2 as a reference for cleanliness.

wasn't he an 8 or 9 on the suspicion list?

i thought doped performances were the ones that fluctuated a huge amount through the season?

I thought doped performances were the ones that remained the same throughout a three week tour without showing fatigue...?

i stress i have no idea whether froome is doping. the main thing that goes against him is that he made the huge jump out of nowhere, so suspicion is fair. but his performance in the vuelta in and of itself is not proof of doping. hell he's only a fraction better than roche. is roche doping?

fascinating that all this energy towards calling froome a doper. meanwhile two convicted blood dopers are in the top four and no one is questioning them? valverde -- practically non-existant in the tour is now climbing with the very best...what is going on there? there's a jump?

my sense is riders are a little more wary of going over the top during the tour (police action?) and perhaps less so during the lax vuelta where the police could not care less...maybe that explains valverde and clentadope's perfs coming off doping sanctions...

Actually, plenty of people are still talking about them, but we already know the people who was caught and I've seen plenty of other threads about other riders.. That being said, there sure is alot of focus on Sky and its riders, but thats because they "im0" are forcing cycling into a very dark era. Sure you could argue that tons of riders dope (I would most likely agree with most of it) but! Sky is bringing back team doping and suddenly I see people performing at Sky level now..

I would also like to remind people what I said during the tour.

"Sky and Froome will force Contador and SbTb too go team doping style to win" I also said Contador would return better than expected you do the math..
Its kinda like world politics, if one nation gets a rocket the other nations will try to get two ^^

But we can always hope changes will happen and people will get caught so it might go back to being "normal" if you want to use that word


Ohh I forgot.. yes Nicolas Roche is doping just like his father...

 

[the big ring]

Although I strongly agree with your comment re: Froome's current 3rd place standing (especially considering his Tour/Olympic state of peak form - I know, "never really peaking, just maintaining 95% of peak form all season-long" ), I disagree with the bolded portion. I'm not certain whether you were able to watch the coverage of the 2011 Vuelta, but Froome seemed to excel on precisely the short & steep type of climbs. The link onlyshows a few minutes worth of the highlights of this particular stage, but there were a couple of stages where Froome displayed a Rasmussen/Contador-like ability to repeatedly sprint uphill, recover, then sprint again, dropping the other climbers. It was shocking to watch these displays at the time - having never seen any of his previous exploits, but he certainly seemed adept at short & steep climbs.

http://universalsports.com/video/20...age-17-christopher-froome-gets-the-stage-win/

+1

Another example: Evans attacked Froome and Wiggins on the steepest climb of this year's tour de France and Froome countered like Cadel was standing still, winning the stage.

 

[maxmartin]

Although I strongly agree with your comment re: Froome's current 3rd place standing (especially considering his Tour/Olympic state of peak form - I know, "never really peaking, just maintaining 95% of peak form all season-long" ), I disagree with the bolded portion. I'm not certain whether you were able to watch the coverage of the 2011 Vuelta, but Froome seemed to excel on precisely the short & steep type of climbs. The link onlyshows a few minutes worth of the highlights of this particular stage, but there were a couple of stages where Froome displayed a Rasmussen/Contador-like ability to repeatedly sprint uphill, recover, then sprint again, dropping the other climbers. It was shocking to watch these displays at the time - having never seen any of his previous exploits, but he certainly seemed adept at short & steep climbs.

http://universalsports.com/video/20...age-17-christopher-froome-gets-the-stage-win/

that stage is not as steep as Angliru where CF lost time to Cobo. And today's stage is comparable to Anglitu with part of section even steeper. Well you can always say CF lost time to Cobo because of riding for W. That is partly true. I guess we just did not see enough about CF to give him a full assessment on steep stuff, after all he only jumped from nowhere into the scene in last Vuelta. My current impression is he is not good at ultra steep stuff >15%, but I could be wrong, we simply need to see more races from him.

 

[Avoriaz]

I would call VDB2 slow and that is normal for a guy just did a big effort in the Tour. Alien is definitely not riding slow, he is in 3rd place and withing striking distance. You call a GT 3rd place slow?? Although CF did lose a little momentum, but short and steep climb is never his cup of tea. And anything can turn around in significant triple 14, 15. 16. After I saw the joke Tour, anything from alien CF will not surprise me.

Well not really. By VDB2's own admission he expected nothing from the Vuelta because:

After the Tour, I enjoyed life for a few weeks, so this is logical...This really comes as no surprise. I didn’t come here for the overall standings, but so that my condition can grow again before the winter

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/time-loss-was-logical-says-van-den-broeck

 

[_frost]

Well not really. By VDB2's own admission he expected nothing from the Vuelta because:



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/time-loss-was-logical-says-van-den-broeck

There you see, he must be cycling off the drugs from his body! 100% clear evidence of doping.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Ohh I forgot.. yes Nicolas Roche is doping just like his father...

I think this also...I noticed Roche at the Tour of the Algarve...he was climbing with the best of them...he just seems to have notched up a significant gear this season....in the top 8 or 10 consistently.

And hey ho - he signs with Saxobank - no coincidence that he has a marked improveent in CLIMBING and he is then going to be riding for Alberto next year.

I would often note Roche's placement in the races and think 'poor Nicolas - but you are so good looking, you cant have everything' so to see him up there at the front in all the races is making me

Can Dr Sahl back up his and mine observations ? his site palmares doesnt detail much.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://universalsports.com/video/20...age-17-christopher-froome-gets-the-stage-win/

You cannot compare Pena Cabarga to yesterdays stage. Cabarga was insane, of course, but even Chris has its limits like we saw yesterday. Or he had the wrong gears mounted, also possible. When he is passed by Gesink uphill there must be an explanation.

The timeloss the other day [Valverde's stage win] was just poor tactics, Chris needs to learn how to poker on his bike.

 

[Hawkwood]

Well if I had not known he doped in his late teens I might have giving him some more slack ^^

But well.. obvious is obvious.. the u15 teens in the team I coach still make the joke (Froome Froome) he sure is fast, when someone sprints at training.... again obvious is obvious

Can you tell us a bit more about the doping in his teens bit. I think in an earlier post you said some British friends had told you this, however Froome moved from Kenya to South Africa in his teens and that's when he started road racing. Were these British people in South Africa?

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Can you tell us a bit more about the doping in his teens bit. I think in an earlier post you said some British friends had told you this, however Froome moved from Kenya to South Africa in his teens and that's when he started road racing. Were these British people in South Africa?

I can't reveal my source, but yes they visited Froome's family in Africa! But as I told you, there is nothing shocking in it, as I wrote earlier doping is very widespread in sports and in the youth. its also normal that even smaller clubs/teams try it out.. Atleast thats my experience.

I also want to state again, that I am not talking about crazy doping! but doping is doping right ^^

 

[Dr.Sahl]

I think this also...I noticed Roche at the Tour of the Algarve...he was climbing with the best of them...he just seems to have notched up a significant gear this season....in the top 8 or 10 consistently.

And hey ho - he signs with Saxobank - no coincidence that he has a marked improveent in CLIMBING and he is then going to be riding for Alberto next year.

I would often note Roche's placement in the races and think 'poor Nicolas - but you are so good looking, you cant have everything' so to see him up there at the front in all the races is making me

Can Dr Sahl back up his and mine observations ? his site palmares doesnt detail much.

I've actually always liked Roche (even if he is doped) he is very underestimated by many im0 and if you look at his Palmares he is not that bad (considering his job) his become more sharp in the mountains this year however and I think due to the dark era started that he will be crazy next season ^^

You can look up some of the more recent results, since his site only list up til 2009 or 2010 or something. But you can see a good boost in the mountain stages and GT's this year compared to a few years back, but well.. neither way, people don't talk as much about him as Froome because he is more likeable and he didnt do something super crazy yet.. atleast Roche can show his not coming from nowhere if he keeps getting better

 

[Cycle Chic]

Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

Just watch.

Today went according to your theory.

 

[mastersracer]

Today went according to your theory.

no it didn't. He only lost 35 seconds to the GC contenders. Besides, look at my previous post: "doper's fatigue" is a specious notion. Cyclists are not bodybuilders. Froome is plain fatigued. That goes against the conspiracy theorists who claimed Sky had found some secret way to maintain year-long peak form. But then there is no way to falsify these claims against Sky because a good performance is evidence of doping and a bad performance is evidence of doping.

Funny how no one has started a "Saxo Bank - how much more ridiculous can it get' thread. Their DS is again implicated in systematic doping (Hamilton's book) and they have riders at the front all day and 2 up the road waiting for AC to bridge...

 

[Digger]

no it didn't. He only lost 35 seconds to the GC contenders. Besides, look at my previous post: "doper's fatigue" is a specious notion. Cyclists are not bodybuilders. Froome is plain fatigued. That goes against the conspiracy theorists who claimed Sky had found some secret way to maintain year-long peak form. But then there is no way to falsify these claims against Sky because a good performance is evidence of doping and a bad performance is evidence of doping.

Funny how no one has started a "Saxo Bank - how much more ridiculous can it get' thread. Their DS is again implicated in systematic doping (Hamilton's book) and they have riders at the front all day and 2 up the road waiting for AC to bridge...

What like Wiggins Feb to August?

 

[jilbiker]

Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Froome is doping. 100%. He’s suffering from dopers fatigue. You simply can’t keep transfusing all year long. You also need to cycle off the drugs you’re using to allow your body to return to its normal levels. Otherwise you start to reach a point where you doping is not bringing you to the higher levels. Any body builder knows the important of cycling in and out of a doping program. You don’t dope 365 days a year. Additionally mentally it’s very difficult to dope for more than 6 – 8 months of the year.

Two things will occur in the coming 10 days. He will drop completely. Physically Froome can keep up but the body itself will drop and he will have a horrible crash and lose 10-15 minutes on one stage. Or. He will get dopers nerves and take more than he should and make a mistake outside of doping protocol and test positive.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You got it right, which is why LA had only one real event a year. I have spent sometime with Bodybuilders and you have to cycle in and out to get the maximum benefit. Although I think about the Big Mig, EddieM etc who were certainly juiced and won multiple GT in a year. But then the overhead of avoiding dope controls was much less back then perhaps even zero.