Froome/Contador Andalucia

[offbyone]

So after watching that amazing racing last week, I got thinking.
Lance Armstrong seems to be considered one of the ultimate measuring sticks and models in how one can ultimately impact performance over a season(s) with doping.

Yet Lance Armstrong never seemed to try or believe he could maintain peak fitness for months and months. However, we have Contador and Froome who seem to be at a ridiculous level of fitness in February while the main targets of their season is months away. Contador actually plans to ride the Giro and the Tour. I don't get it. Where is the down time? If he is already fit how can he maintain this high level of fitness through July? I don't even understand how his director sportiff would allow him to race at this level.

How can they maintain this level of fitness for a whole season, when the greatest doper of them all, Armstrong, didn't seem to think he could?

 

[Angliru]

So after watching that amazing racing last week, I got thinking.
Lance Armstrong seems to be considered one of the ultimate measuring sticks and models in how one can ultimately impact performance over a season(s) with doping.

Yet Lance Armstrong never seemed to try or believe he could maintain peak fitness for months and months. However, we have Contador and Froome who seem to be at a ridiculous level of fitness in February while the main targets of their season is months away. Contador actually plans to ride the Giro and the Tour. I don't get it. Where is the down time? If he is already fit how can he maintain this high level of fitness through July? I don't even understand how his director sportiff would allow him to race at this level.

How can they maintain this level of fitness for a whole season, when the greatest doper of them all, Armstrong, didn't seem to think he could?

It's not that he didn't think that he could, it's that he couldn't be bothered with any other race other than the Tour once he began his streak of Tour wins. IMO of course.

 

[thehog]

The perspective has changed in testing. Prior there was very little out of competition testing boarding on none at all. So it made more sense to dope along with training and training with very little racing.

These days with the passport the key is keeping a flat line level throughout most of the year. So it makes more sense to race more, micro dose along with heading up and down from altitude for training to send off the pre-screen algo n the passport system.

 

[hrotha]

There has always been both superpeakers (Armstrong, Riis; Andy Schleck, Nibali last season) and season-long peakers (Jalabert, Valverde; Nibali in previous seasons, 2012 Wiggins, Froome).

 

[The_Juan]

It's all about taking PEDs certain times during the year (glow time) and regular blood transfusions.

I suspect that because of the blood passport these guys now have to keep a higher form plateau that is closer to competition form than before, that's why it's so easy for them to get in shape. They then choose when an how to peak, go climb a mountain, train in some rugged part of the world and voila! And I suspect that the higher form plateau is reached or/and maintained via micro-dosing PEDs.

Victor Conte used to call drug testing IQ testing because you have to be below a certain IQ level for you to fail a test.

As far as Froome goes, I highly suspect that he peaked for Andalucia because he wanted to one-up Alberto at least once during the early season. This has implications as far as how much of a better peak Chris is going to have in the TdF (kind of like Mayo in the 2004 DL) come July because he does have to stick to certain blood parameters.

 

[offbyone]

It's not that he didn't think that he could, it's that he couldn't be bothered with any other race other than the Tour once he began his streak of Tour wins. IMO of course.

I have a hard time believing that if Armstrong thought he could win more big races, that he wouldn't want to go for it. I know he was tour obsessed, but I also think he truly believed that even with drugs, there were limits to fitness peaks.

The perspective has changed in testing. Prior there was very little out of competition testing boarding on none at all. So it made more sense to dope along with training and training with very little racing.

These days with the passport the key is keeping a flat line level throughout most of the year. So it makes more sense to race more, micro dose along with heading up and down from altitude for training to send off the pre-screen algo n the passport system.

So essentially in this day and age, Armstrong 2.0 should be able to win all 3 grand tours

 

[roundabout]

It will be interesting to see how the balance of power changes during Tirreno-Catalunya block of racing where it is impossible to do a proper training camp between

 

[The_Juan]

I have a hard time believing that if Armstrong thought he could win more big races, that he wouldn't want to go for it. I know he was tour obsessed, but I also think he truly believed that even with drugs, there were limits to fitness peaks.

I think his obsession with the TdF clouded everything else. He never really developed a liking for anything else because, at the end of the day, he wasn't really into cycling, he was into the fame and fortune that came with being a cancer survivor AND winning the TdF.

So essentially in this day and age, Armstrong 2.0 should be able to win all 3 grand tours

If Froome/Contador were given the very same information about tests (when and how to beat them) I'm pretty sure they could go for all three grand tours. They would screw up their health in the process, but that's secondary.

 

[roundabout]

I could be wrong with all the post-race position shuffling, but without looking it up only Sastre and Beloki finished on the podium when entering consecutive Grand Tours within one calendar year since Pantani's double.

 

[Netserk]

I could be wrong with all the post-race position shuffling, but without looking it up only Sastre and Beloki finished on the podium when entering consecutive Grand Tours within one calendar year since Pantani's double.

Basso '05?

edit: nvm, I misunderstood

 

[DirtyWorks]

It will be interesting to see how the balance of power changes during Tirreno-Catalunya block of racing where it is impossible to do a proper training camp between

This will be interesting, but with the new supra-national secret anti-doping panel, the favored riders won't test positive anyway.

Many of the posts treat doping like the UCI is some kind of fair dealer. They are not. Contador would not have tested positive for clen without Seppelt's leak.

AFAICT, both Froome and Contador are permitted full-gas, but don't kill yourself, doping.

 

[SundayRider]

The perspective has changed in testing. Prior there was very little out of competition testing boarding on none at all. So it made more sense to dope along with training and training with very little racing.

These days with the passport the key is keeping a flat line level throughout most of the year. So it makes more sense to race more, micro dose along with heading up and down from altitude for training to send off the pre-screen algo n the passport system.

I think your right Hog. However as far as LA is concerned I think he saw other races as a bit beneath him once he had won the Tour. Maybe he didn't want to mess up his Tour schedule - doping/training? Didn't want to increase risk of crashing anymore than neccessary.

 

[SundayRider]

I could be wrong with all the post-race position shuffling, but without looking it up only Sastre and Beloki finished on the podium when entering consecutive Grand Tours within one calendar year since Pantani's double.

Probably mental/physchologial reasons for not doing well at consecutive GTs as opposed to purely physical.

 

[skippythepinhead]

So after watching that amazing racing last week, I got thinking.
Lance Armstrong seems to be considered one of the ultimate measuring sticks and models in how one can ultimately impact performance over a season(s) with doping.

Yet Lance Armstrong never seemed to try or believe he could maintain peak fitness for months and months. However, we have Contador and Froome who seem to be at a ridiculous level of fitness in February while the main targets of their season is months away. Contador actually plans to ride the Giro and the Tour. I don't get it. Where is the down time? If he is already fit how can he maintain this high level of fitness through July? I don't even understand how his director sportiff would allow him to race at this level.

How can they maintain this level of fitness for a whole season, when the greatest doper of them all, Armstrong, didn't seem to think he could?

It is one thing to compare Lance Armstrong vs current contenders' approaches to training and doping.

It is quite another to compare Lance Armstrong's psyche to that of a cyclist. There is no comparison. Lance has never been TDF-obsessed, or even winning-obsessed. Lance is Lance-obsessed.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

I could be wrong with all the post-race position shuffling, but without looking it up only Sastre and Beloki finished on the podium when entering consecutive Grand Tours within one calendar year since Pantani's double.

Cadel Evans basically did that in 2007, 10 seconds off podium in the Vuelta
Clean as a whistle according to many

 

[thehog]

I think your right Hog. However as far as LA is concerned I think he saw other races as a bit beneath him once he had won the Tour. Maybe he didn't want to mess up his Tour schedule - doping/training? Didn't want to increase risk of crashing anymore than neccessary.

Wasn't just LA, eveyone on a program back in the day rode like that.

For LA as is Froome the Tour is the only race their perspective country knows about. Brits don't undertand the Giro as Amricans couldn't understand why Lance wasn't winning the spirits in the opening week of the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Cadel Evans basically did that in 2007, 10 seconds off podium in the Vuelta
Clean as a whistle according to many

Valverde was close last year. 1 place off a tdf podium and 3d in vuelta. Clean as a whistld according to most people involves in the sport currently.

 

[SeriousSam]

I think Armstrong could have done it (win all 3 GT) more than once, had he seriously committed himself to it. But every race other than the Tour was meaningless to him.

 

[SundayRider]

I think Armstrong could have done it (win all 3 GT) more than once, had he seriously committed himself to it. But every race other than the Tour was meaningless to him.

In the same year? I doubt it, the margins are small only takes a puncture/crash, team to have a slight off day etc.

 

[Berzin]

Both Froome and Contador had days during Andalucia where one dropped the other.

Froome was dropped in stage four, and Contador in stage five.

If they were doping full-on they would not have had such performances.

 

[Rob27172]

It is one thing to compare Lance Armstrong vs current contenders' approaches to training and doping.

It is quite another to compare Lance Armstrong's psyche to that of a cyclist. There is no comparison. Lance has never been TDF-obsessed, or even winning-obsessed. Lance is Lance-obsessed.

Yes absolutely but also I think with his medical history he was aware of the damage he would do if he tried to go full genius for a whole year.

Now though they have no option as they need to keep within the parameters of the passport so they need to stay at such a high level.
The UCI may think they can keep the sport appearing to be cleaner without the positives but they are going to be destroying riders lives by maintaining these levels throughout the year.

 

[hrotha]

Both Froome and Contador had days during Andalucia where one dropped the other.

Froome was dropped in stage four, and Contador in stage five.

If they were doping full-on they would not have had such performances.

Dopers don't drop each other now? They don't have ups and downs in their performance? You might want to check every race ever.

 

[SeriousSam]

Both Froome and Contador had days during Andalucia where one dropped the other.

Froome was dropped in stage four, and Contador in stage five.

If they were doping full-on they would not have had such performances.

That makes no sense whatsoever, absolutely none.

 

[JimmyFingers]

That makes no sense whatsoever, absolutely none.

So what you are saying is it's a perfect post for the clinic

 

[jraama]

A million little reasons

I think LA had millions of little reasons why he focused only on the tour.

He already had plenty of fame as well, so winning the Giro or Vuelta would offer effectively no benefits.