Froome stays in yellow, the right decision?

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Just cancel the whole Tour de Farce. Regardless of what they do now, there is no proper winner, just a name with an asterisk next to it.

Well depends what happens next and who wins. For example if Froome destroys the TT and the remaining mountain stages I doubt anyone is going to think ... well If he hadn't crashed today he wouldn't have won.

A sensible post. Based on today's form both Froome and Porte should be strong tomorrow.

 

[Poursuivant]

That French poll is laughable but haters gonna hate as they say.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

What are the French most annoyed at, their riders not doing well, lack of French attacks/performances today, Pinot going backwards looking awful or that the moto only ran over Froome's bike and not Froome himself? :lol:

My guess? Having to listen to regurgitated Armstrong-style insults from another un-informed, nationalistic fan base after having to watch the regurgitation that is UK Postal.

Wait. Maybe that's just me.

Its not just cycling, they are terrible spectators on at least tennis (Roland Garros) and football (booing when Ronaldo got injured) too. I couldnt believe my own eyes and ears when they booing on Froome in yellow today. They are worse than children.

They're booing Froome for reasons which can't be discussed in this sub-forum. Suffice it to say they understand the sport. And they have a sense of style, which of course Froome offends with every turn of the pedal. And step taken uphill...

 

[Gigs_98]

I really don't know if it was the right decsision. It definitely was fair, but that doesn't mean it's right because it's now completely understandable that riders don't understand why Froome gets this special treatment while there have been numeral situations where the decision was the opposite. Moreover this decision is afaik actually against the rules since there is nowhere written gaps get neutralized if they are caused by fans or motos. There even is a rule that gaps caused by crashes in the last 3 k only get neutralized on flat stages or stages with downhill finishes.

 

[SeriousSam]

Yeah, I would hesitate to interpret that poll as a dispassionate assessment of the decision, removed from all the context pertaining to Froome and Sky.

 

[Jonas78]

Re: Re:

What are the French most annoyed at, their riders not doing well, lack of French attacks/performances today, Pinot going backwards looking awful or that the moto only ran over Froome's bike and not Froome himself? :lol:

My guess? Having to listen to regurgitated Armstrong-style insults from another un-informed, nationalistic fan base after having to watch the regurgitation that is UK Postal.

Wait. Maybe that's just me.

Its not just cycling, they are terrible spectators on at least tennis (Roland Garros) and football (booing when Ronaldo got injured) too. I couldnt believe my own eyes and ears when they booing on Froome in yellow today. They are worse than children.

They're booing Froome for reasons which can't be discussed in this sub-forum. Suffice it to say they understand the sport. And they have a sense of style, which of course Froome offends with every turn of the pedal. And step taken uphill...

There might be aspects of cycling i dont understand as a non-Frenchman. But I see nothing resembling style in booing. And no style in the spectators behaving like sheep that cant get out of the way when the cyclists come. Where can i read about why Frenchmen hate Froome?

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

Every race has different commissaries, Hitch being bitter about Contador crashing in 2011 doesn't mean one wrong has to mean another wrong. At the end I don't think is is a precedent at all, there are no rules and probably won't be about such weird situations, it has to be taken case by case.

Fans hating Froome will be bitter cause in past commissionaires did nothing, Froome fans will be delighted and say this is justice. Hard to say, for me it was right thing to do as ASO **** it up there, the crash was caused by overcrowding and people coming down from cancelled part of Ventoux, this mean ASO should have taken barriers or police or did something before. They did not.

I'm a huge Contador fan but think it was the right decision. Froome has earned my respect this Toir and I am actually rooting for him. I never actually disliked him. His wife actually was the reason I couldn't stand him before anyway.

Are you an Espanyol fan? Your username suggests so.

Yes, for the most part. It has a lot to do with style. Delgado was my hero, and I like riders of his style.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

We might as well neutralize every mechanical and flat tire as well now.

Fan/moto caused crash vs. flat tyre. Yeah they're the same thing

Both not the fault of the rider itself, so yeah, they're the same thing. So what if you get a flat tire because someone threw tacks on the road? It has happened before.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

There might be aspects of cycling i dont understand as a non-Frenchman. But I see nothing resembling style in booing. Where can i read about why Frenchmen hate Froome?

Sent you a PM.

 

[thehog]

I really don't know if it was the right decsision. It definitely was fair, but that doesn't mean it's right because it's now completely understandable that riders don't understand why Froome gets this special treatment while there have been numeral situations where the decision was the opposite. Moreover this decision is afaik actually against the rules since there is nowhere written gaps get neutralized if they are caused by fans or motos. There even is a rule that gaps caused by crashes in the last 3 k only get neutralized on flat stages or stages with downhill finishes.

There's plenty of scope in the rules as they are written so broadly for just about any outcome. Whilst I do think Froome gained too much I'm not sure what else they could do apart from let the rules sit as they are. He is bar far the strongest in the race, he still would have won. Now the French will turn against him (rightly or wrongly) as it looks like he is gaming the system.

 

[Toledo Ice Cream]

Re: Re:

Every race has different commissaries, Hitch being bitter about Contador crashing in 2011 doesn't mean one wrong has to mean another wrong. At the end I don't think is is a precedent at all, there are no rules and probably won't be about such weird situations, it has to be taken case by case.

Fans hating Froome will be bitter cause in past commissionaires did nothing, Froome fans will be delighted and say this is justice. Hard to say, for me it was right thing to do as ASO **** it up there, the crash was caused by overcrowding and people coming down from cancelled part of Ventoux, this mean ASO should have taken barriers or police or did something before. They did not.

I'm a huge Contador fan but think it was the right decision. Froome has earned my respect this Toir and I am actually rooting for him. I never actually disliked him. His wife actually was the reason I couldn't stand him before anyway.

Are you an Espanyol fan? Your username suggests so.

Yes, for the most part. It has a lot to do with style. Delgado was my hero, and I like riders of his style.

I agree about Spanish riders, they really have style. I love Purito. I was talking about RCD Espanyol though, the football team. Off topic, but their nickname is the pericos, so I guessed.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

What are the French most annoyed at, their riders not doing well, lack of French attacks/performances today, Pinot going backwards looking awful or that the moto only ran over Froome's bike and not Froome himself? :lol:

My guess? Having to listen to regurgitated Armstrong-style insults from another un-informed, nationalistic fan base after having to watch the regurgitation that is UK Postal.

Wait. Maybe that's just me.

Its not just cycling, they are terrible spectators on at least tennis (Roland Garros) and football (booing when Ronaldo got injured) too. I couldnt believe my own eyes and ears when they booing on Froome in yellow today. They are worse than children.

They're booing Froome for reasons which can't be discussed in this sub-forum. Suffice it to say they understand the sport. And they have a sense of style, which of course Froome offends with every turn of the pedal. And step taken uphill...

It's not like the French cycling fans to hate a man doing well in the sport is it, Anquetil and Merckx spring to mind

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

We might as well neutralize every mechanical and flat tire as well now.

Fan/moto caused crash vs. flat tyre. Yeah they're the same thing

Both not the fault of the rider itself, so yeah, they're the same thing. So what if you get a flat tire because someone threw tacks on the road? It has happened before.

And what happened they neutralised the race at that point, as its basically outside interference that could have been prevented by the organisers.

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

Every race has different commissaries, Hitch being bitter about Contador crashing in 2011 doesn't mean one wrong has to mean another wrong. At the end I don't think is is a precedent at all, there are no rules and probably won't be about such weird situations, it has to be taken case by case.

Fans hating Froome will be bitter cause in past commissionaires did nothing, Froome fans will be delighted and say this is justice. Hard to say, for me it was right thing to do as ASO **** it up there, the crash was caused by overcrowding and people coming down from cancelled part of Ventoux, this mean ASO should have taken barriers or police or did something before. They did not.

I'm a huge Contador fan but think it was the right decision. Froome has earned my respect this Toir and I am actually rooting for him. I never actually disliked him. His wife actually was the reason I couldn't stand him before anyway.

Are you an Espanyol fan? Your username suggests so.

Yes, for the most part. It has a lot to do with style. Delgado was my hero, and I like riders of his style.

I agree about Spanish riders, they really have style. I love Purito. I was talking about RCD Espanyol though, the football team. Off topic, but their nickname is the pericos, so I guessed.

I was curious about that. I don't watch much football so am not aware of them.

 

[JetSet]

Absolutely the right and fairest decision. I've watched the tours since the 80's and followed it since the days of Simpson and have never seen anything like this before. The Tour is attracting more and more attention seekers and I don't know what the answer is other than not allowing spectators on the climbs unless there are barriers. There was a climb last year where they didn't allow spectators. Either that or a gendarme every 10 metres,

Pete

 

[Melo]

No, ASO just said *** the rules, we want to protect our cash cow Froome. If they want something like this not to happen, put some barriers 3-4 km before the finish on the climbing stages or bring some stewards or police. Today was a great opportunity to do this. You cut the climb with 6 km, you must think that all the people who would've been in that 6 km that you removed will now be in the last 3-4 km of the new remodeled stage and the density of people will rise, it's not rocket science. You can change the rules after the Tour is over, not when is under way.

 

[42x16ss]

Wrong decision, but only because I wanted to see Froome go Full *** ® trying to get the jersey back

 

[SirLes]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

I remember Robert Millar being sent the wrong way at the end of a stage and missing out on the win but that was only affected the stage win rather than the overall.
Guerini getting knocked down but still winning the stage. Various bits of bad luck re mechanicals, racing crashes etc.
People getting knocked off much earlier in stages but not that sort of triple whammy.

I think they probably made the right call. Havibg said that, given how strong Froome has looked I think he'd still win even if they didn't make the adjustment and it would have made the next week very exciting.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Wrong decision, but only because I wanted to see Froome go Full *** ® trying to get the jersey back

We all wanted to see this, but let's face it, he'd have it back after tomorrow's TT even without the neutralisation

 

[Gigs_98]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

 

[PlanZ]

Re: Re:

I'm no fan of Froome, but I think the decision was correct. Not impressed by how he was unable to ride a neutral bike though, that was weird.

That is how it looks when you're getting a bike with no motor init.

On topic: disgusting decision and it only proves the importance of paying your monthly fees to the right persons (or just being british)

Oh, what a surprise. A conspiracy theorist on an Internet forum.

 

[red_flanders]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

If you need an exact match of the events, of course there isn't one. That's just silly. People are bringing up the fact that there have been any number of incidents out of the riders' control which cause them to lose time, at a similar point in the race. Many of those have felt extremely unfair as well, but the officials stuck to the letter of the rules.

In this case they didn't. Some folks don't like the inconsistency of sticking to the letter of the "law" one day in one race and not doing so in another. I'd rather see the right decisions than consistent decisions, though I certainly understand the frustration with inconsistency in application of rules. But the officials have some leeway, and today made a reasonable judgement.

Would they have done it if it weren't the Maillot Juane? I doubt it. Does Sky have undue connection and influence in the governing body, leading to all kinds of questions of foul play in situations like this? Yep. Is it possible that this had an impact in this case? Yep. Is there any evidence of it? Not so far. Will there be? I doubt it.

Will it affect the outcome of the race? No, not unless Froome DNF's. The strongest rider still has the lead he should have. Can't get too worked up about that. But the Cookson problem is rearing it's ugly head in this case again, whether there's truth to it or not. This is the problem with conflicts of interest. They appear whether there is validity in a particular case or not.

 

[King Of Molehill]

The TDF used to be about survival. A rider had to deal with his own mess, whatever it was. What's happened to the TDF? Guys used to have to ride up and over the Alps on gravel roads with their own tools and tires around their necks. I know the modern sport is different. But why can't the philosophy be the same? I disagree with today's decision and I think it makes the TDF seem soft. Less about survival at all costs. I'm not a fan of Froome but today he gained my respect for dealing with his sh!t in the way he did. He legged it! That was amazing. And in my opinion, the TDF has reduced the significance of it by reversing their decision. This could have been legendary stuff for Froome but will become less so now, I believe.

Side-note, I remember watching Claudio Chiappucci riding up Sestriere in 92 when the exact same thing happened. Except Claudio avoided faceplanting into the motorcycle and went around. From there on up Claudio was parting the crowd, not the moto's. That was epic.

 

[blackcat]

yeah, someone give Jesper Skibby Ronde Van Vlaanderen trophy.

Give Lance back his 7 jerseys.

Give Graeme de Bruijn back his finishes and reverse the dq's,

Put Nibali back in the Vuelta last year.

Give Cav back his finishes for when he got a tow, oh, he was never dq'ed, ok, as you were, carry on.

 

[blackcat]

what woulda been good was if the commissaires heard his protest, then gave him a 30second penalty for running in the race.