Froome stays in yellow, the right decision?

[Walkman]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

I don't think you see this objectively. The organizers were at fault here. None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

As for Contador in 2011, weren't there a crash in the peloton (caused by the riders) that held them up? (and then a second crash, I know) Difference is, the race organizers did not cause those crashes. That was just racing. With that being said, I do think that, that situation was quite weird and the showcased the need for better rules.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Absolutely the right and fairest decision. I've watched the tours since the 80's and followed it since the days of Simpson and have never seen anything like this before. The Tour is attracting more and more attention seekers and I don't know what the answer is other than not allowing spectators on the climbs unless there are barriers. There was a climb last year where they didn't allow spectators. Either that or a gendarme every 10 metres,

Pete

mate. someone punched Hinault and retired, do we wanna give him that yellow jersey he did not win?

 

[gazr99]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

I remember Robert Millar being sent the wrong way at the end of a stage and missing out on the win but that was only affected the stage win rather than the overall.
Guerini getting knocked down but still winning the stage. Various bits of bad luck re mechanicals, racing crashes etc.
People getting knocked off much earlier in stages but not that sort of triple whammy.

I think they probably made the right call. Havibg said that, given how strong Froome has looked I think he'd still win even if they didn't make the adjustment and it would have made the next week very exciting.

The thing people need to bear in mind is this, the most recognisable jersey in the world is the Tour de France yellow jersey. Images of the 2 x TDF champion crashing 1.2km from the finish and running up Ventoux have beamed around the world. As much you try this totally a different situation to anything else. This is a PR nightmare a week after the 1km banner basically collapsed on top of a rider. This is a decision they needed to make not only in the sense of fairness for the competition but PR wise as well.

 

[Walkman]

Re:

what woulda been good was if the commissaires heard his protest, then gave him a 30second penalty for running in the race.

Is there a rule saying you can't run in the race? Or is it that you have to stand still and wait or a bike? Because then you shouldn't be walking either...

 

[Taxus4a]

If was a mistake of the organizers dont change the fences quickier, and it is not Froome blame the Moto broke his bike...and it is not Mollema ability doesnt broke his bike.. he just was lucky... nobody is going to give this 2 riders and Porte the time he lost today for that crash, but at leat they dont pay more blames of other people. Thay showed the strongest today.

Anyway is not allowed to run without the bike, and that is to be out of the race, so although the decision is the less unfair, and the situation exceptional, he must be careful and know the rules...

 

[blackcat]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

I don't think you see this objectively. The organizers were at fault here. None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

As for Contador in 2011, weren't there a crash in the peloton (caused by the riders) that held them up? (and then a second crash, I know) Difference is, the race organizers did not cause those crashes. That was just racing. With that being said, I do think that, that situation was quite weird and the showcased the need for better rules.

it was mother nature brah.

the wind came.

logistics could never account for the late alteration in the route.

you wanna control the weather too?

 

[Melo]

None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

It was not a summit finish, therefore the 3km rule was applied.

 

[hrotha]

I can sympathize with the desire to minimize the harm done by something that was your responsibility (crowd control, in this case) and to correct something that was unfair, but I don't think it was a good idea. It creates an extremely dangerous precedent. A can of worms, really. What happens next time, if the race isn't quite so neatly defined already? What if there's 2, 3 or 4 km to go in an MTF? What if something similar happens again, only with a small crowd and simple human error on the driver's part? What if there's a lone fan, but he trips and brings down a rider? What if it doesn't happen at the front, to the race leader, but a minute or two down the road, without it being live on TV, and affecting someone who's still fighting for the GC, just not for the top spot?

I think it would perhaps have been better to keep the times as they were, apologize, fire someone or have someone resign, and make a better job from now on.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

what woulda been good was if the commissaires heard his protest, then gave him a 30second penalty for running in the race.

Is there a rule saying you can't run in the race? Or is it that you have to stand still and wait or a bike? Because then you shouldn't be walking either...

You can run but you need to be carrying your bike. The fact that I knew this before today's stage but a two time TdF winner didn't is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Walkman]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

I don't think you see this objectively. The organizers were at fault here. None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

As for Contador in 2011, weren't there a crash in the peloton (caused by the riders) that held them up? (and then a second crash, I know) Difference is, the race organizers did not cause those crashes. That was just racing. With that being said, I do think that, that situation was quite weird and the showcased the need for better rules.

it was mother nature brah.

the wind came.

logistics could never account for the late alteration in the route.

you wanna control the weather too?

The wind stopped the motorbike?

They could have had 3 bikes pacing in front of the riders to clear the path, has been done numerous times in the past. Lemond even brought it up himself.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

I'm no fan of Froome, but I think the decision was correct. Not impressed by how he was unable to ride a neutral bike though, that was weird.

That is how it looks when you're getting a bike with no motor init.

On topic: disgusting decision and it only proves the importance of paying your monthly fees to the right persons (or just being british)

well froomes bike was lying on the ground broken by a motorbike with 100's of fans around it, I'm sure one of them had a wee peak in to prove your theory correct

 

[SirLes]

I know there have been examples of bad luck befalling leaders or contenders before. I was just trying to think of examples where it is the race organisers (or officials) who have actually taken out the person and potentially altered the entire outcome of the race.
We saw the situation a couple of days ago with the 1km banner coming down and adjustments were made.
The 1km or 3km rule has been used on multiple occasions. (When was it when the crash happened as they were going underneath it? I don't think they'd quite made it under but the officials ruled that it was inside?)

My point with this incident is that the organisers (or official authorised people) through their direct actions have potentially altered the outcome of the race. That shouldn't happen and if it's possible to "undo" the impact then it's right that they try imo.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

The TDF used to be about survival. A rider had to deal with his own mess, whatever it was. What's happened to the TDF? Guys used to have to ride up and over the Alps on gravel roads with their own tools and tires around their necks. I know the modern sport is different. But why can't the philosophy be the same? I disagree with today's decision and I think it makes the TDF seem soft. Less about survival at all costs. I'm not a fan of Froome but today he gained my respect for dealing with his **** in the way he did. He legged it! That was amazing. And in my opinion, the TDF has reduced the significance of it by reversing their decision. This could have been legendary stuff for Froome but will become less so now, I believe.

Side-note, I remember watching Claudio Chiappucci riding up Sestriere in 92 when the exact same thing happened. Except Claudio avoided faceplanting into the motorcycle and went around. From there on up Claudio was parting the crowd, not the moto's. That was epic.

Cars used to have skinny tyres, pathetic brakes and no airbags once too. Its called progress. Have you ridden in 125km/h winds on a mountain? Because that is what the official weather Forecast for Ventoux was. If you are warned and you ignore the experts warning and there is a serious incident attributed to the wind who gets sued? How about spectators and motos thrown into the mix in those winds? A moto would get thrown around like confetti in such gusts let alone a 7kg bike with a 60kg rider sitting on it. Today was avoidable carnage. But shortening the stage was the right decision based upon the available information. You should also add Andy Hampsten in the 1988 Giro. Now that was epic.

 

[Gigs_98]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

I don't think you see this objectively. The organizers were at fault here. None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

As for Contador in 2011, weren't there a crash in the peloton (caused by the riders) that held them up? (and then a second crash, I know) Difference is, the race organizers did not cause those crashes. That was just racing. With that being said, I do think that, that situation was quite weird and the showcased the need for better rules.

To tell the truth, I didn't watch the stage 2011 when Contador lost time but someone said that the crash was caused by a fan just like in this case.

The problem is of course the broken wheel but I don't know if that is a good reason to neutralize the gap. The question is, would there also have been a neutralization if the riders had crashed directly into the fans (and not a moto which was held up by fans) and then Froome's bike would have gotten demolished by a moto. I doubt it.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

what woulda been good was if the commissaires heard his protest, then gave him a 30second penalty for running in the race.

Is there a rule saying you can't run in the race? Or is it that you have to stand still and wait or a bike? Because then you shouldn't be walking either...

You can run but you need to be carrying your bike. The fact that I knew this before today's stage but a two time TdF winner didn't is absolutely ridiculous

Does that rule really exist? Someone wrote in the race thread that it's only forbidden to run over the finish line without a bike.

 

[thehog]

A number of people have mentioned there have been previous examples of riders being taken out but not given special treatment.

I have to say I'm struggling to think of another example where a condender for GC in a stage race was brought down by one tour vehicle and then had their bike smashed by another in the final km of a stage so they had no chance to make up time.

It doesn't matter if his bike was smashed by another moto, the only thing that matters is the time he lost because of fans/motos and there were other incidents where riders lost the same amount of time because of similar things like Contador in the tdf 2011.

I don't think you see this objectively. The organizers were at fault here. None argued when they gave Yates the same time when he crashed in the 1 km banner because he had no fault in that, again, the organizers of the race dropped the ball.

As for Contador in 2011, weren't there a crash in the peloton (caused by the riders) that held them up? (and then a second crash, I know) Difference is, the race organizers did not cause those crashes. That was just racing. With that being said, I do think that, that situation was quite weird and the showcased the need for better rules.

To tell the truth, I didn't watch the stage 2011 when Contador lost time but someone said that the crash was caused by a fan just like in this case.

The problem is of course the broken wheel but I don't know if that is a good reason to neutralize the gap. The question is, would there also have been a neutralization if the riders had crashed directly into the fans (and not a moto which was held up by fans) and then Froome's bike would have gotten demolished by a moto. I doubt it.

In Contadors case he crashed 10km from the finish, he was around 1m 20 sec behind. Then the Shleck group inside 3km got held up in another crash. Contador actually went past them but was still given 1m 20s behind.

The issue with that year that gave Contador the time he was behind with 3km to go. He lost 3km and didn't gain anything because the rest crashed.

 

[Melo]

Stage 1, Tour 2011 - Contador crash

https://youtu.be/SAh4hrS8aYs?t=28m44s

 

[Sylvester]

What if Mollema would have finished alongside Porte or Froome? It's an interesting thought experiment.

Still I voted yes as I think Froome shouldn't be penalised for this incident.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Stage 1, Tour 2011 - Contador crash

https://youtu.be/SAh4hrS8aYs?t=28m44s

What do you know, the actual events don't match up with hogs description of them.

 

[blaxland]

This is the worst decision in cycling that I can remember..what a joke,the tour is bought"really bad decision.moto accidents have happened before and no change of result.very very bad Tdf

 

[old.edu]

The commissaries already set a president in this race when Yates when playing on his bouncy castle?

Basically 3 riders were penalised by the actions of spectators and if this decision had not being made, it would open the way in the future for any fan of a certain rider to simply try and obstruct/unseat other riders.

It appears to me that all the people waiting for Quintana to attack and ride away from Froome in the mountains got a nasty shock today before the crash and don’t like the idea that Froome may go on and win this tour easily.

 

[perico]

The more I have thought about this, I've changed my mind. I remember one year at Paris Roubaix where the outcome of the race was affected by a train. I remember Boonen being involved and there was no neutralization and cost some of the contenders a chance at victory. I think Froome deserves to win this tour by what we've seen thus far, but the rules should go by precedent in a case like this, and there is no example where this has been applied in this manner. It does smell of favoritism. It may be fair, but I don't think it's necessarily the right solution.

 

[Billie]

disgraceful decision. Luckily I can watch Tour de POlogne tomorrow

 

[mufana]

This is crazy! Froome should have been disqualified or at least a have a time penalty for leaving behind his bike. You don't leave your bike behind. You can run up the mountain but always with your bike. Crazy. And why does he profit te most of the attack of Mollema?

And why does Quintana get's bonus seconds?

 

[Melo]

Re:

The commissaries already set a president in this race when Yates when playing on his bouncy castle?

Basically 3 riders were penalised by the actions of spectators and if this decision had not being made, it would open the way in the future for any fan of a certain rider to simply try and obstruct/unseat other riders.

It appears to me that all the people waiting for Quintana to attack and ride away from Froome in the mountains got a nasty shock today before the crash and don’t like the idea that Froome may go on and win this tour easily.