Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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May 27, 2012
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spalco said:
I'm not sure I said that exactly but if I did, I'll withdraw it, and still, if we don't know what a clean winner would say about doping, it's not logically correct to claim Froome's comments aren't what a clean winner would say either. ;)
No, it's logical to compare his statements to people in the past who made similar proclamations and see how they ended up. :rolleyes:

History is the best indication of how people will act in the future.
 
May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
LeMond may be held up as the peak of performance by some, but that does not make him unique.
He may be the clinic benchmark, but there are many athletes in many sports who have performance figures to match LeMonds....

If he can do it, so can others.
Of course that will probably upset you, but he's only human.
In cae you haven't noticed this is a cycling forum. Undoubtly there are many athletes with a similar ability to LeMonds. But there were not many in cycling.

Those who hold him up as the peak are leaders in the sport.

That so many are surpassing, matching or achieving very close to that ability without explanation stinks.

Others can achieve the same as LeMond, of that I have never doubted, but they are not winning GTs at the moment nor have they in the last 20 years.

If Sky's 'A' Team were able to achive the success they have without dope then it would be due to the riders ability. Well then if that were the case they would have no problem being completely transparent, but they aren't.
 
May 27, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
In cae you haven't noticed this is a cycling forum. Undoubtly there are many athletes with a similar ability to LeMonds. But there were not many in cycling.

Those who hold him up as the peak are leaders in the sport.

That so many are surpassing, matching or achieving very close to that ability without explanation stinks.

Others can achieve the same as LeMond, of that I have never doubted, but they are not winning GTs at the moment nor have they in the last 20 years.

If Sky's 'A' Team were able to achive the success they have without dope then it would be due to the riders ability. Well then if that were the case they would have no problem being completely transparent, but they aren't.
Not to mention that Sky seems to be breeding LeMonds...
 
Mar 25, 2013
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the sceptic said:
Has anyone read the Walsh interview yet?
If you mean was there any doping questions in it? No there wasn't

Really just spoke about growing up in Kenya and his time in South Africa as well as the Tour last year which he said he found hard to enjoy.
 
May 27, 2012
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gooner said:
If you mean was there any doping questions in it? No there wasn't

Really just spoke about growing up in Kenya and his time in South Africa as well as the Tour last year which he said he found hard to enjoy.
“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”

― George Orwell
 
ferryman said:
A word to the wise Taxus...just stop it with this rubbish.
First of all, I have never consider me as wise, so stop with that, it sounds despective. I consider me with experience and with knowledges, no more.

I write some things happends in my life becouse is the way for me to explain thinks better.

I dont so far writte about opinions, nor just yours but in general in that despective way as rubbish.

So if I start, ok, but if dont, please, do respect post.
 
May 27, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
First of all, I have never consider me as wise, so stop with that, it sounds despective. I consider me with experience and with knowledges, no more.

I write some things happends in my life becouse is the way for me to explain thinks better.

I dont so far writte about opinions, nor just yours but in general in that despective way as rubbish.

So if I start, ok, but if dont, please, do respect post.
If you weren't the 1,000,000,000 person to use the bad grammar/I'm not a native English speaker/pretend not to understand/post filled with barbed hooks thing, you might be funny. As it stands. your trolling is obvious and lame.
 
Benotti69 said:
Why is LeMond's performance held up by the likes of JV, Brailsford and all who proclaim cycling is cleanER as the bench mark of the peak of clean ability?

Evans clean, nope.

Wiggins, hahahahahahaha!!!!

Sastre, nope.

Hinault, nope.
I agree with Hinault, but I have no proof. It would be long to explain, and anyway it would be conspiracies as well...he has been one of the big names of the history anyway, and that kind of doping wasnt as later.

For the other three there isnt any evidence of doping, by the contrary, there are important evidence they didnt dope.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
If you weren't the 1,000,000,000 person to use the bad grammar/I'm not a native English speaker/pretend not to understand/post filled with barbed hooks thing, you might be funny. As it stands. your trolling is obvious and lame.
I dont understand even all this post, but I can say my opinion anyway.
If you dont believe me, I can prove all I said
 
May 26, 2010
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Taxus4a said:
I agree with Hinault, but I have no proof. It would be long to explain, and anyway it would be conspiracies as well...he has been one of the big names of the history anyway, and that kind of doping wasnt as later.

For the other three there isnt any evidence of doping, by the contrary, there are important evidence they didnt dope.
Five riders refused to submit to a doping control at the 1982 Critérium de Callac. All were fined and given a one-month suspension. One was Hinault.

In cycling there are very few who fail tests since 1999. Those who do is due to stupidty or because someone wanted them to be caught.

That Evans, Sastre and Wiggins have not tested positive means nothing in cycling.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Yes you can read into froomes comments. For one they tell us he is not someone committed to clean sport. For the sake of argument assuming he was clean it would be purely on a - why dope if i can crush anyone clean basis. He clearly doesn't give 2 ****s about whether the sport is actually clean because he makes no effort to help it in that direction (despite the immense power he has) since he just wants everyone to forget about doping and not talk about it rather than actually confronting it.

Anyway a normal clean winner (normal as in someone who possesses common sense) would not talk the way froome does. I don't know why you keep saying they would.

To offer an analogy if someone responded to all questions in a police investigation with - suck my ****, would you argue that we don't know how an innocent person would conduct themselves in such an interview?
You'd be surprised how many innocent suspects do exactly that, or something like it - factoring in basic hostility to the police is part of the job.

In this case, factoring in basic hostility to clinicians...well, we know how hostile Brad was....

There's no art to judge the minds construction in the soundbite, hitch, however much you'd like there to be...
 
Aug 12, 2009
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blackcat said:
Its a pretty easy function. No clean rider, with exception of Greg, has won the Tour on bread and water. And basically, Froome won last year. He just had to let Wiggins stand on the top step. And the callow human muttonchop was too small of a 6'3" rider to man up and repay Froome in this years Tour. definition of d0uchebag.

d0uchebag is swear filter'ed. wtf?
Yep. It has been filtered for some time.

That is the thing I don't get about his fans. Check the comments on the article section. So many people there who never venture in here because they couldn't handle the truth; his character and actions revealed how he really is. Who he chose to be.

At least Hinault rode with Lemond. It's not like Wiggins was going to beat Froome this year. Lemond had Hampsten, Froome has Porte. Not that the later two compare in any way shape or form to the former. World's of difference. But focus wise, the dynamic duo would have beaten the other guy. He should have raced...but can't because of what Sky have been doing.

Then again I think he got his year tipping the ABP alarms to breaking point and had to go back to 2010 level or maybe slightly above. Thus he's no match. Not the same level of doping and if he raced that way again, it'd all be over. Exposed.

So that is something to consider. Hinault was still a beast in pre epo era. He could fight and push. Wiggins off the juice? Not a chance. He'd be completely embarrassed and it'd be obvious to everyone something was off with last year. Thus play it as it is.

Edit: just read everything after your post BC. Trollcraft was at over 9000. Man they are getting feisty before the Tour. You ready for the fall everyone?
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
I agree with Hinault, but I have no proof. It would be long to explain, and anyway it would be conspiracies as well...he has been one of the big names of the history anyway, and that kind of doping wasnt as later.

For the other three there isnt any evidence of doping, by the contrary, there are important evidence they didnt dope.
Sastre was a climber right? But sometimes he did amazing ITTs against other doped riders, so there is almost 0 chance he was clean.

Examples

1 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 41.31 (56.22 km/h)
2 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.04
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0.06
5 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 0.10
6 Victor Hugo Peña (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.23
7 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Discovery Channel 0.30
8 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.33
9 Tom Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel 0.48
10 Christian Vandevelde (USA) Team CSC 1.07
Fastest ever ITT in a GT:eek: (lol at Heras almost winning) Hard to find another clean rider on that list.

Or how about the 2004 vuelta

1 Santiago Perez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 35.05 (48.22 km/h)
2 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Banesto 0.07
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.08
4 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros 0.13
5 David Blanco (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 0.18
6 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.34
7 Victor Hugo Peña (Col) US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor 0.36
8 Luis Perez (Spa) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone 0.52
9 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Team CSC 0.55
10 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Team CSC 0.58
Dont really see how its possible to think Sastre was clean when you look at the other names there.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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del1962 said:
Walsh is printing what some members of the clinic do not want printing.
The interview was done more as a preview for the Tour with Froome as the favourite. That's why Walsh wrote about his upbringing in Kenya, his time in South Africa, his experiences in the Tour last year and how he has won nearly everything in sight this year.

He put it out there beforehand that he would address doping at the end of the Tour so I wasn't surprised to see the article written the way it was. I think he's better off waiting until he finishes his time in and around Sky and not write on things prematurely before it has ended.

Everyone knows my opinion on all this, I think Walsh is asking the right questions in the background but is coming up emptied handed regarding anything untoward and suspicious going on.

I also said before you can't complain about Kimmage being refused access for the entire Tour in 2010 and then be equally of the same feeling when Walsh is allowed in.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
That Evans, Sastre and Wiggins have not tested positive means nothing in cycling.
But knowing Evans' VO2-max from tests, right from the tender age of 18 through his entire cycling career, does.
 
May 26, 2010
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hektoren said:
But knowing Evans' VO2-max from tests, right from the tender age of 18 through his entire cycling career, does.
martinvickers said:
Sssshhhhh...we don't need no stinkin' facts!
According to Vaughters Vo2 max is not that important. Lactate is.

That Evans performed with the epo'ers in the dark era has no bearing on whether you think he doped? But then he never tested postive did he? Hmmm wonder where we heard that before.

Looking for facts about doping in pro sport is like looking for a needle in a hay stack when you consider the federations keep pouring the hay on top on the needle making it harder than ever to find.

But lets not let the history of the sport teach us nothing. Historically the same people are involved in the sport that run it now.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
According to Vaughters Vo2 max is not that important. Lactate is.

That Evans performed with the epo'ers in the dark era has no bearing on whether you think he doped? But then he never tested postive did he? Hmmm wonder where we heard that before.

Looking for facts about doping in pro sport is like looking for a needle in a hay stack when you consider the federations keep pouring the hay on top on the needle making it harder than ever to find.

But lets not let the history of the sport teach us nothing. Historically the same people are involved in the sport that run it now.
No doubt facts are hard to find. Doesn't justify making them up, or ignoring the ones that are there, just because they don't support your pet theory.
 

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