• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

Page 113 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
martinvickers said:
No doubt facts are hard to find. Doesn't justify making them up, or ignoring the ones that are there, just because they don't support your pet theory.

I dont make facts up.

My theory is based on the history of the sport and the current federations and people in charge.

If people want to remain blind to the obvious well and good.
 
Benotti69 said:
According to Vaughters Vo2 max is not that important. Lactate is.

That Evans performed with the epo'ers in the dark era has no bearing on whether you think he doped? But then he never tested postive did he? Hmmm wonder where we heard that before.

Looking for facts about doping in pro sport is like looking for a needle in a hay stack when you consider the federations keep pouring the hay on top on the needle making it harder than ever to find.

But lets not let the history of the sport teach us nothing. Historically the same people are involved in the sport that run it now.

Its interesting how much weight you place on Vaughters opinion when it suits your agenda.
He's a liar, or a respected expert, depending on his alignment to your narrative.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
andy1234 said:
Its interesting how much weight you place on Vaughters opinion when it suits your agenda.
He's a liar, or a respected expert, depending on his alignment to your narrative.

I am quoting Vaughters to posters who believe Vaughters.

My view on the sport has not deviated. If you cannot see the subtleties in my posts, meh.

I have consistently asked posters who believe the sport to be cleanER to point to where it was cleanED up and by whom.

Can you answer that?
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
martinvickers said:
There it is - the clinic Lemond fanboi nonsense. A unique human being the likes of which never seen before, and never seen again.

You expect to be taken seriously with this silly hero worship?
if you have read all my posts on Lemond, you would see that i am not in the 100% belief element. i do find it hard to believe, even with him leaving PDM because of their medical program, he never ever took a shot of testo. i do not believe he took testo/i do not disbelieve he took testo. indifferent. its cycling. no judgement on Lemond.

read my history on Lemond.

searh member blackat. search Lemond. search for individual posts not threads. will take you 5 minutes.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
Benotti69 said:
I am quoting Vaughters to posters who believe Vaughters.

My view on the sport has not deviated. If you cannot see the subtleties in my posts, meh.

I have consistently asked posters who believe the sport to be cleanER to point to where it was cleanED up and by whom.

Can you answer that?
the PERCEPTION is cleaner.

now cleaner, how is it definied? quantity of riders? intensity of programs?

i think there is a strong argument for intensity. power numbers on climbs anecdotal.

for me, i can reconcile doping intensity if it is safe for individual athletes.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
Benotti69 said:
I dont make facts up.

My theory is based on the history of the sport and the current federations and people in charge.

If people want to remain blind to the obvious well and good.
dont worry, if they have no strong rebuttal they resort to smearing. attacking the messenger is the refuge of scoundrels
 
Benotti69 said:
I am quoting Vaughters to posters who believe Vaughters.

My view on the sport has not deviated. If you cannot see the subtleties in my posts, meh.

I have consistently asked posters who believe the sport to be cleanER to point to where it was cleanED up and by whom.

Can you answer that?

No, you're quoting Vaughters to prove your point.
It's not subtle.

No arguments about your view on the sport remaining consistent.
You consistently criticise all aspects of it, doping or otherwise.

The sport has been cleaned up by both the processes put in place, such as the Bio passport, and by the unwillingness of teams to engage in team wide doping regimes.
Doping still remains, but the ability to dope at will, or outside of the constraints of the system is no longer there.

So there is your answer.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
andy1234 said:
No, you're quoting Vaughters to prove your point.
It's not subtle.

Not my fault if it is lost on you.

andy1234 said:
No arguments about your view on the sport remaining consistent.
You consistently criticise all aspects of it, doping or otherwise.

I criticise the sport relating to its doping in the clinic. Dont throw mud where none exists.

andy1234 said:
The sport has been cleaned up by both the processes put in place, such as the Bio passport, and by the unwillingness of teams to engage in team wide doping regimes.
Doping still remains, but the ability to dope at will, or outside of the constraints of the system is no longer there.

So there is your answer.

Yeah sure, that is why Contador's positive was hidden till a German Journalist blew the lid on that. Wonder how many Sky positives are under a lid.

BP doesn't work. Ashenden dismissed it as BS.

Blood testing is down. Some teams riders have't been tested. Remember Pat mcQuaid is in charge of testing. That should tell you how well policed the doping is. They police it like a mafia gang, a protection racket, to protect the teams from themselves.

Where are these teams that are unwilling to engage in it?

Great answer.

Oh look there's another unicorn.
 
Benotti69 said:
Not my fault if it is lost on you.



I criticise the sport relating to its doping in the clinic. Dont throw mud where none exists.



Yeah sure, that is why Contador's positive was hidden till a German Journalist blew the lid on that. Wonder how many Sky positives are under a lid.

BP doesn't work. Ashenden dismissed it as BS.

Blood testing is down. Some teams riders have't been tested. Remember Pat mcQuaid is in charge of testing. That should tell you how well policed the doping is. They police it like a mafia gang, a protection racket, to protect the teams from themselves.

Where are these teams that are unwilling to engage in it?

Great answer.

Oh look there's another unicorn.

You're requesting someone to prove a negative?

There was a thread on this not long ago, didn't read it though. What did you all conclude about this?
 
the sceptic said:
Sastre was a climber right? But sometimes he did amazing ITTs against other doped riders, so there is almost 0 chance he was clean.

Examples



Fastest ever ITT in a GT:eek: (lol at Heras almost winning) Hard to find another clean rider on that list.

Or how about the 2004 vuelta



Dont really see how its possible to think Sastre was clean when you look at the other names there.

Those were the days. A veritable who's who.

Heras ... LMAO.
 
Benotti69 said:
I criticise the sport relating to its doping in the clinic.

and anything else that you can think of.

Benotti69 said:
Yeah sure, that is why Contador's positive was hidden till a German Journalist blew the lid on that. Wonder how many Sky positives are under a lid.

If anyone claimed the sport to be perfect, you would have a point.
You asked for cleaner, not perfect.

Wonder away at the number of potential Sky positives hidden. It will save you actually concentrating on facts, and hopefully get you a little bit excited at the same time.

Benotti69 said:
BP doesn't work. Ashenden dismissed it as BS.

And if he changed his mind tomorrow, you would find a reason to throw him under the same bus as Walsh.
Again, experts analysis is only valid when it suits your agenda.

Benotti69 said:
Where are these teams that are unwilling to engage in it?

Seriously?

Benotti69 said:
Great answer.

Oh look there's another unicorn.

It is a fine answer indeed, you are just incapable of comprehending it....
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
andy1234 said:
<snipped for brevity>

You need to reply twice. It would appear I get your juices going.

If you wish for a back and forth of pedantism. Try the Doc. It gets his juices flowing aswell so you'll be in good company.

I am not trying to prove a negative. If something was cleanED, it would be shown where and when it was cleanED. If the BP worked Ashenden wouldn't have left claiming it doesn't work. That the same people run the sport have not changed, see Cookson, yet posters claim it has, is a negative and proof.

Enjoy your tete a tete with the doc if you dare.
 
Benotti69 said:
You need to reply twice. It would appear I get your juices going.

If you wish for a back and forth of pedantism. Try the Doc. It gets his juices flowing aswell so you'll be in good company.

I am not trying to prove a negative. If something was cleanED, it would be shown where and when it was cleanED. If the BP worked Ashenden wouldn't have left claiming it doesn't work. That the same people run the sport have not changed, see Cookson, yet posters claim it has, is a negative and proof.

Enjoy your tete a tete with the doc if you dare.

Do you have double vision?

Anyway, nice change of direction.
Ask for evidence, get it, change the conversation.

You don't know anything about the sport, that you didn't read from the comfort of your sofa. That much is obvious.
What isn't quite so obvious us why you invest so much time criticising it....
 
Don't be late Pedro said:
I thought he left because he would need to sign a contract akin to a gagging order?

Benotti69 said:
If the BP worked Ashenden wouldn't have left claiming it doesn't work.


Yep, no need to let facts get in the way....

“My resignation is about this confidentiality clause as I don’t agree with it,” he told VeloNation today. “It’s not about the biological passport system, as such.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-biological-passport-panel.aspx#ixzz2X8knwqwY
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
andy1234 said:
<Snipped Sugar Honey Iced Tea>

What isn't quite so obvious us why you invest so much time criticising it....

Why do you spend so much time defending a dirty sport? Do you earn your living from it.

Ps this sofa is nice. Cost a lot.
 
Benotti69 said:
Why do you spend so much time defending a dirty sport? Do you earn your living from it.

Ps this sofa is nice. Cost a lot.

Indeed, I have earned a living from the sport in the past, but not any more.

Why do I spend time defending it?
Simple. Because I love it.

I choose to invest my time and emotion into something I love.
Doping is just a part of a sport worth celebrating, and not slagging off at every opportunity.

I guess, in comparison to a team bus, a mountaintop, or a winners podium, a couch is a difficult place to gain that perspective.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
andy1234 said:
<Sugar Honey Ice Tea>

I guess, in comparison to a team bus, a mountaintop, or a winners podium, a couch is a difficult place to gain that perspective.

I have spent time on mountaintops and roadsides in all weather waiting for hours for a quick glimpse of a sport i am passionate about.

I am glad that you dont mind your love cheating on you. Hope it is only your sport that cheats on you :rolleyes:

But today this sofa is lovely.
 
Benotti69 said:
I have spent time on mountaintops and roadsides in all weather waiting for hours for a quick glimpse of a sport i am passionate about.

I am glad that you dont mind your love cheating on you. Hope it is only your sport that cheats on you :rolleyes:

But today this sofa is lovely.

It's less about not minding, and more about not feeling the need to camp outside someones house every day, just waiting for the opportunity to shout AH HA! I KNEW IT!, then going to your friends houses and telling them they are F***ing idiots for trusting their own partners.

Next time you are heading to one of those mountaintops, let me know, because with any luck, there wont be a mobile signal, and the internet will be safe from your sh** for a few hours.
 

airstream

BANNED
Mar 29, 2011
5,122
0
0
Visit site
Lemond is as clean as Wiggins.


I watched those races on youtube. Oh my God. Poor guys. Bikes that were far from technic perfection, weak tactic buildings, early internecine attacks when no one expected until the last climb to make a move, 250 km stages, but HOW these guys were riding... Heck, they convolved like adders on their bikes, they rode Alpe-d'Huez slower than our contemporaries pass over the steepest Zoncolan sector (5km at 16%), they broke big gears with all their bodies' weight... And anyone believes Lemond was clean? Pf, it's a joke.