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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Mar 25, 2013
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BikePure remove Froome's bio from their website.

We contacted Team Sky’s Chris Froome on this issue some weeks ago, asking if he would be willing to produce his data during or after the Tour. We didn’t receive a direct response however he did pass the email to his team. We received a phone call on 20th June from Fran Millar, Head of Business operations for Team Sky who said Froome wouldn’t be making any of his data public. Bike Pure also asked if Froome would be willing to make data available after the Tour and we have not received a response as yet.

Many will know that Froome aligned with our organisation some years ago whilst riding for Team Barloworld. We have asked for clarification from Chris on a number of occasions in the last 18 months via email and direct message on Twitter if he still wished to form part of our organisation. As a result of not receiving such clarification from Chris or Team Sky in recent days we have made the difficult decision to remove his bio page from our website. This in no way insinuates that Froome is a suspicious rider but we feel that if riders do not support our organisation then there is no reason for us to promote them as such.

http://bikepure.org/2013/06/transparency-grand-tour-contenders/

I don't see why riders don't do this more. Pinotti done it for his win in the Italian Nationals the other day. If he can do it, why can't others?
 
Ferminal said:

"For those who ask ‘Why should riders release their data?’, our reply would simply be ‘Why wouldn’t you?’."

Because pro racing is a COMPETITION.
Making power data available, especially when it can be linked so closely to specific events during a race, simply gives your competitors a marker to aim for.

It doesn't help with transparency, sure, but the first aim of a pro team is to win.
 
I had a look through their list of Riders, Chris Froome isn't on there. They didn't think was a big enough deal to include on there but now he's risen to the level of a favourite they're going to hang on to his coat-tails?


Have they asked for Nibali's data? Hesjadal's? Contador's? Wiggins'? Evans'? Or are they only asking for data from the guy who hasn't actually won a GT yet?

I'd love to see it made public but it's pretty obvious why it won't be.
 
Sep 3, 2012
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andy1234 said:
"For those who ask ‘Why should riders release their data?’, our reply would simply be ‘Why wouldn’t you?’."

Because pro racing is a COMPETITION.
Making power data available, especially when it can be linked so closely to specific events during a race, simply gives your competitors a marker to aim for.

It doesn't help with transparency, sure, but the first aim of a pro team is to win.

I get this, but..... If the top end of the peloton are pushing numbers within a very close range which is what I'd expect from clean riders then the harm can't be too much. Surely if GLM and Froome Contador were within a 5% range then at least publishing numbers wouldn't be too much of an advantage. The unwillingness of data publishing is a little strange. The pointy end must all be incredibly close in power output. The secrecy just encourages doping in my opinion.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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andy1234 said:
"For those who ask ‘Why should riders release their data?’, our reply would simply be ‘Why wouldn’t you?’."

Because pro racing is a COMPETITION.
Making power data available, especially when it can be linked so closely to specific events during a race, simply gives your competitors a marker to aim for.

It doesn't help with transparency, sure, but the first aim of a pro team is to win.

If that's the case then give the data to an independent commission. Surely that can be done.

I know 'independent commission'...but what else can you do? Put a judge in that commission then.

Should be possible on a legal way.

The Froome non-believers that way haven't that argument anymore and the Froome believers won't have to defend him anymore in that aspect and can at least always bring up that commission.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Ferminal said:

Pinotti did it for his National win the other day. Obvioulsy it's welcome if they do it but to single out Froome in all this is wrong altogether. If they're going to do this then they are going to have to do it across the board with other riders who don't do it either. You can't just apply it to top GT riders. That's being too selective.

Aren't Nicolas Roche and Richie Porte involved with them? Let's see will they do it with them and the riders on other teams who are associated with them as well.
 
Miburo said:
If that's the case then give the data to an independent commission. Surely that can be done.

I know 'independent commission'...but what else can you do? Put a judge in that commission then.

Should be possible on a legal way.

The Froome non-believers that way haven't that argument anymore and the Froome believers won't have to defend him anymore in that aspect and can at least always bring up that commission.

I was literally just about to start a thread suggesting this.
 
andy1234 said:
"For those who ask ‘Why should riders release their data?’, our reply would simply be ‘Why wouldn’t you?’."

Because pro racing is a COMPETITION.
Making power data available, especially when it can be linked so closely to specific events during a race, simply gives your competitors a marker to aim for.

It doesn't help with transparency, sure, but the first aim of a pro team is to win.

yup....you wonder why they would bother with the 4km pursuit then...i mean setting down times in a very controllable environment...giving everyone else something to aim for? You'd wonder why BC even show up? :)
 
King Boonen said:
I had a look through their list of Riders, Chris Froome isn't on there. They didn't think was a big enough deal to include on there but now he's risen to the level of a favourite they're going to hang on to his coat-tails?

Have they asked for Nibali's data? Hesjadal's? Contador's? Wiggins'? Evans'? Or are they only asking for data from the guy who hasn't actually won a GT yet?
Were any of those you mention Bike Pure members?

As for Froome, well, they mention having removed him, so there. Note they also mention having contacted Froome about Bike Pure in the past and getting no response. You get some good (if small) PR by being a member of Bike Pure, so it's perfectly logical to act for a minimum of commitment in exchange, or it will be completely meaningless.
 
hrotha said:
Were any of those you mention Bike Pure members?

As for Froome, well, they mention having removed him, so there. Note they also mention having contacted Froome about Bike Pure in the past and getting no response. You get some good (if small) PR by being a member of Bike Pure, so it's perfectly logical to act for a minimum of commitment in exchange, or it will be completely meaningless.

Not sure, they aren't listed so I'll assume not, that's not the point I was trying to make though. I was more trying to point out that taking this pot-shot at a guy who hasn't even won a GT, rather than contacting winners, members or not, seems very unfair. Why don't they point out that recent winners have refused to talk or join them?

Their list of members does not include many top, top names (may seem unfair to guys like Porte who are on there but those are the breaks...) and I wonder how many of them have been contacted recently to see if they still want to be part of it? I'd guess pretty much none. They are using a big name to try and drive their own publicity.

I have no problem with the questioning of Froome, I have a problem with the singling out of Froome.
 
gillan1969 said:
yup....you wonder why they would bother with the 4km pursuit then...i mean setting down times in a very controllable environment...giving everyone else something to aim for? You'd wonder why BC even show up? :)

Is anyone releasing power files for pursuits, hour records?
No.

Why give the competition an insight into how much wind tunnel testing, positioning etc is influencing the result?
e.g. a rider is using a new helmet, or different bars,or a different skinsuit, and their power output doesn't change, but the rider goes faster....?

That advantage wouldn't last very long would it?

However, the idea of an independent body, using the power files under an NDA, as a means of potential further investigation, sounds feasible.
The main problem I see, is that it wouldn't be too difficult to manipulate power data....
 
King Boonen said:
Not sure, they aren't listed so I'll assume not, that's not the point I was trying to make though. I was more trying to point out that taking this pot-shot at a guy who hasn't even won a GT, rather than contacting winners, members or not, seems very unfair. Why don't they point out that recent winners have refused to talk or join them?

Their list of members does not include many top, top names (may seem unfair to guys like Porte who are on there but those are the breaks...) and I wonder how many of them have been contacted recently to see if they still want to be part of it? I'd guess pretty much none. They are using a big name to try and drive their own publicity.

I have no problem with the questioning of Froome, I have a problem with the singling out of Froome.
Why would they contact non-members to demand some level of cooperation with Bike Pure? They can't force people to become members, but if you're a member some level of commitment should be expected.

Yes, they're singling out Froome. It comes with being high profile.
 
hrotha said:
Why would they contact non-members to demand some level of cooperation with Bike Pure? They can't force people to become members, but if you're a member some level of commitment should be expected.

Yes, they're singling out Froome. It comes with being high profile.

To see if they want to become members? To see if they are willing to release data? To do something other than sit there and wait for extremely busy people to decide if they want to join a voluntary organisation that has no influence and probably no-one, outside the sport, other than a few hardcore fans have heard of? you never know, one of them might say yes and then you can put out some positive publicity.

They haven't bothered contacting anyone else, at least they don't mention it, although Marianne Vos is listed and surely her data would be very interesting considering she's probably the greatest cyclist currently racing in terms of achievements.
 
Oct 2, 2012
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Floppybike said:
If you look at Froome's wins this year--he looks like he's on track for winning the 2013 Tour de France=-----check out this article

http://www.tourcycling.com/blog.aspx

I don't know what this article brings to the CLINIC discussion of Froome. Actually I don't know what this article brings to any discussion, aside from claiming Nibali and Wiggins as potential favorites for the tour. It's from yesterday.... It has been pretty clear for some time that they won't be going. And that's enough off topic
 
gooner said:
Pinotti did it for his National win the other day. Obvioulsy it's welcome if they do it but to single out Froome in all this is wrong altogether. If they're going to do this then they are going to have to do it across the board with other riders who don't do it either. You can't just apply it to top GT riders. That's being too selective.

Aren't Nicolas Roche and Richie Porte involved with them? Let's see will they do it with them and the riders on other teams who are associated with them as well.

Wasn't their point that Froome was a member, then suddenly decides not to be when he finds out he can win the TDF.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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The Hitch said:
Wasn't their point that Froome was a member, then suddenly decides not to be when he finds out he can win the TDF.

Porte is a member according to their website. Why not him? His performances in P-N, PV, CI and Dauphine should be of interest regarding this as well. My point is it can't be used just to refer to top GT riders. This selective picking a few days before the Tour smells of a PR exercise.
 
The Hitch said:
Wasn't their point that Froome was a member, then suddenly decides not to be when he finds out he can win the TDF.

No, Froome (Sky) just decided not to release power data. Yes, he didn't reply when they asked if he still wanted to be aligned with them, but I doubt they have asked any of their other members. He also didn't say he wished to be removed, they decided to remove him because he hasn't done something that, I assume, none of their other members have agreed to do.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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hektoren said:
Of course you're making things up. Don't kid yourself.
"According to Vaughters" lactate is important, VO2Max isn't. Ha-bloody-ha.
Even with a physiology-for-dummies under your belt, you'd understand just how ridiculous that statement is. The two are closely inter-related.

That Evans has been in competition for 18 yrs, during the dark ages, has no bearing on his test-results.
IF he'd shown spikes, unexpected test-results correlated to seasonal variation, you'd have a leg to stand on. He hasn't, and you don't.

There is a whole thread where JV1973 replies.

Benotti is right. JV did say that. Multiple times BTW.

Go and rewatch the 2007 Tour. Evans was miles better than Sastre that year. Massive turn around the next. For the record, 2007 was a lot dirtier than 2008. They were flying in 2007. Was fun to watch though!
 
airstream said:
Lemond is as clean as Wiggins.


I watched those races on youtube. Oh my God. Poor guys. Bikes that were far from technic perfection, weak tactic buildings, early internecine attacks when no one expected until the last climb to make a move, 250 km stages, but HOW these guys were riding... Heck, they convolved like adders on their bikes, they rode Alpe-d'Huez slower than our contemporaries pass over the steepest Zoncolan sector (5km at 16%), they broke big gears with all their bodies' weight... And anyone believes Lemond was clean? Pf, it's a joke.

Good attempt.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Can someone explain to me how releasing power data is such a disadvantage?

First of all, the other riders have power meters as well, so they can probably guess pretty well what sky are doing just by looking at their own power.

Secondly, lets say Froome releases a file where he is doing 5.999w/kg for 1 hour. what are the other teams gonna do about it, just knowing what dawg is doing isnt gonna magically make them as strong as he is.
 

airstream

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burning said:
He made a good reference about the ultimate level of trolling, he should be proud of himself

Edit: We all know how Dawg was riding on %16 slopes (I think the steepest part is just around 200m) 4 years ago...

Sadly the forum is full of super experts like you, and it's its big problem. what the **** are you doing here if you know how riders should ride after 4 years and how they shouldn't? Who the hell are you to reason about that from the position of ultimate truth as you do?

All this thread is some...defiant circus tent. People are blinded with their sympathies and antipathies, however serve it like the only correct opinion. It's madness. All the people who tirelessly practise despising Sky on here, you have nothing but you unproven ephemeral thoughts about talent. Big fat zero.
 
the sceptic said:
Can someone explain to me how releasing power data is such a disadvantage?

First of all, the other riders have power meters as well, so they can probably guess pretty well what sky are doing just by looking at their own power.

Secondly, lets say Froome releases a file where he is doing 5.999w/kg for 1 hour. what are the other teams gonna do about it, just knowing what dawg is doing isnt gonna magically make them as strong as he is.

If you look at power over an hour, as an average, then you are right.

If you look at the power generated at key points on a climb, or the power profile of a time trial, then it could potentially reveal strengths and weaknesses in a rider, and team.

When teams work so hard to gain even a minimal advantage, why would they want to give anything away?
 

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