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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Jul 8, 2009
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airstream said:
Sadly the forum is full of super experts like you, and it's its big problem. what the **** are you doing here if you know how riders should ride after 4 years and how they shouldn't? Who the hell are you to reason about that from the position of ultimate truth as you do?

All this thread is some...defiant circus tent. People are blinded with their sympathies and antipathies, however serve it like the only correct opinion. It's madness. All the people who tirelessly practise despising Sky on here, you have nothing but you unproven ephemeral thoughts about talent. Big fat zero.
My friend, you seem to love sticking your head in the cement mixer. I'm afraid it will only continue in its circular capacities and it will only continue to harden against you. You will convince no one to the contrary where opinion is set against Mr. Froome. The "defiant circus tent" is not set against you but your quarrel with it will certainly elicit a commensurate response likely laced with peculiar pejoratives and polemic pronouncements proffered precisely to perturb your propensities to wax perspicuous on all matters pertaining to the Sky. But you are welcome to persist.;)
 
vrusimov said:
My friend, you seem to love sticking your head in the cement mixer. I'm afraid it will only continue in its circular capacities and it will only continue to harden against you. You will convince no one to the contrary where opinion is set against Mr. Froome. The "defiant circus tent" is not set against you but your quarrel with it will certainly elicit a commensurate response likely laced with peculiar pejoratives and polemic pronouncements proffered precisely to perturb your propensities to wax perspicuous on all matters pertaining to the Sky. But you are welcome to persist.;)

One of the best ever ..the highlighted
 
airstream said:
Sadly the forum is full of super experts like you, and it's its big problem. what the **** are you doing here if you know how riders should ride after 4 years and how they shouldn't? Who the hell are you to reason about that from the position of ultimate truth as you do?

All this thread is some...defiant circus tent. People are blinded with their sympathies and antipathies, however serve it like the only correct opinion. It's madness. All the people who tirelessly practise despising Sky on here, you have nothing but you unproven ephemeral thoughts about talent. Big fat zero.

I just pointed about his way of riding some time ago, what makes you so mad?
 
andy1234 said:
If you look at power over an hour, as an average, then you are right.

If you look at the power generated at key points on a climb, or the power profile of a time trial, then it could potentially reveal strengths and weaknesses in a rider, and team.

When teams work so hard to gain even a minimal advantage, why would they want to give anything away?

yup...they should never have told the world about the pillows eh??:rolleyes:

we really would never have guessed.......
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
There is a whole thread where JV1973 replies.

Benotti is right. JV did say that. Multiple times BTW.

Go and rewatch the 2007 Tour. Evans was miles better than Sastre that year. Massive turn around the next. For the record, 2007 was a lot dirtier than 2008. They were flying in 2007. Was fun to watch though!

I can only repeat myself: Lactate (as Benotti inaccurately stated, we're talking lactate clearance, which is the appropriate term) is closely related to VO2Max. If you don't believe me, I suggest you take a crash course in physiology.
Now, Vaughters DIDN't state that VO2MAX was irrelevant. He stated that it couldn't be looked at separately, you have to take Lactate Clearance into consideration as well. I'm OK and 100% fine with that, and if you've got lactate tests performed concurrently with the VO2-tests, which is the norm today although a bit redundant, and A-OK, but back in 1998, that wasn't the standard regime for tests.
However, a very good approximation for calculating Lactate Clearance is available, based on VO2Max-tests alone, and it's not magic. I could teach this to anybody who'd be interested in 10 minutes.

As stated JV and Benotti hasn't got a leg to stand on. This is my turf.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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hektoren said:
I can only repeat myself: Lactate (as Benotti inaccurately stated, we're talking lactate clearance, which is the appropriate term) is closely related to VO2Max. If you don't believe me, I suggest you take a crash course in physiology.
Now, Vaughters DIDN't state that VO2MAX was irrelevant. He stated that it couldn't be looked at separately, you have to take Lactate Clearance into consideration as well. I'm OK and 100% fine with that, and if you've got lactate tests performed concurrently with the VO2-tests, which is the norm today although a bit redundant, and A-OK, but back in 1998, that wasn't the standard regime for tests.
However, a very good approximation for calculating Lactate Clearance is available, based on VO2Max-tests alone, and it's not magic. I could teach this to anybody who'd be interested in 10 minutes.

As stated JV and Benotti hasn't got a leg to stand on. This is my turf.
ramp test?

turbo has the record at AIS on this.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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blackcat said:
ramp test?

turbo has the record at AIS on this.

Yes. Ramp test to measure VO2Max, lactate profiling to get a fix on correct intensity for training purposes. With ideal training you'll be able to shift the point where exponential lactate buildup starts, increasing the percentage of VO2Max available to the athlete.

The average Joe has his lactate threshold at 50% of VO2Max, and through ideal training intensity this can be shifted to about 85%. But 85% of what? That's why you're interested in a high VO2Max to start with.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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hektoren said:
Yes. Ramp test to measure VO2Max, lactate profiling to get a fix on correct intensity for training purposes. With ideal training you'll be able to shift the point where exponential lactate buildup starts, increasing the percentage of VO2Max available to the athlete.

The average Joe has his lactate threshold at 50% of VO2Max, and through ideal training intensity this can be shifted to about 85%. But 85% of what? That's why you're interested in a high VO2Max to start with.
Derek Clayton the Scottish Australian marathon runner used to run in training at his threshold every session i believe.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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blackcat said:
Derek Clayton the Scottish Australian marathon runner used to run in training at his threshold every session i believe.

Which is why Froome has his eyes glued at his SRM...
Once exponential buildup starts, you're cooked!
 
hektoren said:
Yes. Ramp test to measure VO2Max, lactate profiling to get a fix on correct intensity for training purposes. With ideal training you'll be able to shift the point where exponential lactate buildup starts, increasing the percentage of VO2Max available to the athlete.

The average Joe has his lactate threshold at 50% of VO2Max, and through ideal training intensity this can be shifted to about 85%. But 85% of what? That's why you're interested in a high VO2Max to start with.

Much more important than VO2Max is vVO2Max, lactate clearance comes into that equation but so does efficiency/technique/power to weight ratio/aero etc
 
Jun 15, 2009
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armchairclimber said:
Much more important than VO2Max is vVO2Max, lactate clearance comes into that equation but so does efficiency/technique/power to weight ratio/aero etc

All factors come into play at some point, but you can change your aero, power to weight ratio, efficiency and technique. VO2Max is harder to change once you're at peak condition, unless you're willing to tinker with dope.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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hektoren said:
Which is why Froome has his eyes glued at his SRM...
Once exponential buildup starts, you're cooked!
ok, need to qualify my post.

Clayton "supposedly" had a low VO2 which me managed to make the most of its potential running to his threshold. to boost his tolerance and threshold.

he did by training at that level. this is anecdotal. it may well be apocryphal. i think some know his story. he was actually Irish English, then emigrated to Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Clayton

i was going on memory. the guy lived in my street in Melbourne.
 
hektoren said:
Yes. Ramp test to measure VO2Max, lactate profiling to get a fix on correct intensity for training purposes. With ideal training you'll be able to shift the point where exponential lactate buildup starts, increasing the percentage of VO2Max available to the athlete.

The average Joe has his lactate threshold at 50% of VO2Max, and through ideal training intensity this can be shifted to about 85%. But 85% of what? That's why you're interested in a high VO2Max to start with.

Love the ramp test ;) (painful!)

It's interesting how some riders perform. I've known of some folks who really do not show much build up. Really natural time trialists who can ride at a very high % of their VO2. It's fun watching them get tested, as the tester usually starts to look at the lactate readings with some level of disbelief :p
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Ripper said:
Love the ramp test ;) (painful!)

It's interesting how some riders perform. I've known of some folks who really do not show much build up. Really natural time trialists who can ride at a very high % of their VO2. It's fun watching them get tested, as the tester usually starts to look at the lactate readings with some level of disbelief :p

Oh, VO2Max-testing is painful alright! Some labs I know keep a bucket handy for the real athletes who can live with a lot of pain and ride till they puke. Nasty business! I did a VO2max test myself last october (I'm now well past 50, and wanted a more realistic figure instead of the result from my glory days at 34, which has been a talking-point and something to boast about for close to 20 years) and it was painful, indeed. I maxed out completely, got progressive loss of peripheral vision, loss of sensation in fingers and feet and fainted!
I was nowhere near my value from '95, but I was pleased to see that lactate buildup goes ballistic only at 81% of VO2Max, compared to 79% back then. I must be doing something right, after all!;)
 
Bassons thoughts on doping. He believes some riders physiology are questionable, something that we already were suspicious of, but he went on to couple that thought with the team doping concept. That can only match one team only. Special rider physiology + Team doping = ____________.

Which other team has these obvious attributes?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-rejects-jalaberts-epo-defence

Maybe he knows something that we don't know.

“Unfortunately, when you see the physiology of certain riders who are going to start this year’s Tour de France, you have to ask yourself questions. There are still doping problems in cycling. There’s organised doping in some teams, in my opinion. There are a lot of individuals also who are doping. I would like that someone finally came up with a report on the real health of French cycling.”

Enough said.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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i think the best tell is the forehead and sunken cheeks. less the latern jawling, cure roger ramjet and jay leno.

yes, sunken cheeks after 10 pro seasons at 20k mile seasons = very catabolic.

but 20 years ago, they all looked like farmers in a van gogh portrait. 30 years old, going on 50. a little like lief hoste.

now. they all look like shiny skin smooth moisturiser model boys. NOTNORMAL.

could be a reason why Wiggins tries to uglify himself under muttonchops and gallagher haircuts.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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blackcat said:
could be a reason why Wiggins tries to uglify himself under muttonchops and gallagher haircuts.

Actually, that's Wiggo trying to beautify hisself. Which reminds me of the old adage that goes something like "You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd."
Other than that, Phrenology is a thing of the past, and good riddance!
 
Mar 13, 2009
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actually, before phrenology, there was a serious discipline called craniology.

yeah, seems bunkum today.

but if you ever saw the French film Freaks, well... and down syndrome... so there is something.

acromegaly can quite easily be diagnoses from visuals. the disorder of the James Bond villain.