Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Aug 3, 2010
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Re:

bambino said:
Whatever. I'm done with this debate. No need to feed ............ anymore.
I'm with you on that. Snowed a bunch here last night and they groomed the skate tracks today. Gonna go get some k's in before dark.
 
Re: Re:

bambino said:
fmk_RoI said:
bambino said:
fmk_RoI said:
spetsa said:
fmk, you have explained nothing in part. The link you provided bambino explains your position in full. It appears to be based first on your belief that Froome has done nothing wrong so the rules, you agree with, they just don't apply to him. Got it. If I am interpreting your position incorrectly, I apologise. Just let me know where I went wrong.
Pay attention Spetsa. You are applying a response to something entirely separate.

As for where you're going wrong: knowledge of the rules. Tell me what rule Froome has broken and why the UCI have been negligent in not banning him already. Tell me why the rules for what Froome has done need to be ignored here and new rules imagined.
Now you are twisting the discussion. We are not talking about which rules Froome has broken. That entirely different debate. We are talking about the rule of organizer right to ban rider from their competition. That is a rule as well.
We appear to be talking about both Bambino. And you appear to understand neither of them.
I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong if you would explain where I go wrong in my understanding of that rule.
You go wrong in not understanding the rules both for the AAF and disrepute, in ignoring what legal experts have said about disrepute, in dismissing the Valverde case on the grounds you don't understand it and in inexplicably citing the IOC's recent actions which clearly have no relevance here.
 
samhocking said:
I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.
Really, Sam? Here’s what I heard:

When Moore asked Froome how he knew that other riders had gone through a similar situation and been exonerated, Froome said “quite a few riders” and other athletes had contacted him personally about this. But this is the same Froome who said the peloton was tremendously supportive of his riding the RdS, when other riders told a very different story. I repeat that the stats actually available at WADA don’t particularly support this claim. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that if another athlete tested at 2000 ng/ml and got off, this surely would have been discovered (because if all these athletes were willing to talk to Froome about this, they surely would have talked to others) and referred to by one of the preceding riders who exceeded the DL and didn't get off.

Froome concedes that “it is a much more complicated process than I initially thought”. That would not be the case if there were a reasonable explanation for the positive (or a precedent, such as another athlete with 2000 ng/ml who got off). He also repeats his confidence “that we are going to get to the bottom of this”. He said basically the same thing after the leak in December, so again, it does not appear from Froome’s own words that he has an explanation after all this time. I don’t know how to make this any clearer than I already have, but if he doesn’t have an explanation after all this time, he’s reduced to fantastical theories and technicalities. His insistence that no rules have been broken, as I explained quite a while ago, is essential in his all-or-nothing strategy.

He says that during the last week of the Vuelta “a lot of people” were asking him if he was sick, and that “people could recognize that I was having difficulty breathing”. Really? I don’t remember anyone reporting this at the time. And again, we know from his comments prior to the RdS that Froome has a history of saying vaguely that a lot of people support some point of his, when in fact digging a little deeper that does not seem to be the case. Not that it matters, since his condition at this point isn't relevant to his case, unless he were to argue he accidentally inhaled too much, which of course he has steadfastly denied, or that he took some other drug for his condition.

When asked about whether the case is going to the Tribunal, Froome says there has been “a lot of misinformation in the media” and that he isn’t going to try to address every story. But when the story about the deal being made for a short suspension broke, he immediately denied it, so the fact that he doesn’t deny that the case is going to the Tribunal is telling. This is particularly so given that, in his own words, the case still hasn’t “been sorted out” after five months. If he hasn't been able to convince LADS to this point, most likely it would go to CADF.
 
Merckx index said:
samhocking said:
I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.
Really, Sam? Here’s what I heard:

When Moore asked Froome how he knew that other riders had gone through a similar situation and been exonerated, Froome said “quite a few riders” and other athletes had contacted him personally about this. But this is the same Froome who said the peloton was tremendously supportive of his riding the RdS, when other riders told a very different story. I repeat that the stats actually available at WADA don’t particularly support this claim. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that if another athlete tested at 2000 ng/ml and got off, this surely would have been discovered (because if all these athletes were willing to talk to Froome about this, they surely would have talked to others) and referred to by one of the preceding riders who exceeded the DL and didn't get off.

Froome concedes that “it is a much more complicated process than I initially thought”. That would not be the case if there were a reasonable explanation for the positive (or a precedent, such as another athlete with 2000 ng/ml who got off). He also repeats his confidence “that we are going to get to the bottom of this”. He said basically the same thing after the leak in December, so again, it does not appear from Froome’s own words that he has an explanation after all this time. I don’t know how to make this any clearer than I already have, but if he doesn’t have an explanation after all this time, he’s reduced to fantastical theories and technicalities. His insistence that no rules have been broken, as I explained quite a while ago, is essential in his all-or-nothing strategy.

He says that during the last week of the Vuelta “a lot of people” were asking him if he was sick, and that “people could recognize that I was having difficulty breathing”. Really? I don’t remember anyone reporting this at the time. And again, we know from his comments prior to the RdS that Froome has a history of saying vaguely that a lot of people support some point of his, when in fact digging a little deeper that does not seem to be the case. Not that it matters, since his condition at this point isn't relevant to his case, unless he were to argue he accidentally inhaled too much, which of course he has steadfastly denied, or that he took some other drug for his condition.

When asked about whether the case is going to the Tribunal, Froome says there has been “a lot of misinformation in the media” and that he isn’t going to try to address every story. But when the story about the deal being made for a short suspension broke, he immediately denied it, so the fact that he doesn’t deny that the case is going to the Tribunal is telling. This is particularly so given that, in his own words, the case still hasn’t “been sorted out” after five months. If he hasn't been able to convince LADS to this point, most likely it would go to CADF.
With all due respect (seriously), MI ... Cat's Cradle II.
 
Re: Re:

spetsa said:
bambino said:
fmk_RoI said:
bambino said:
fmk_RoI said:
I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong if you would explain where I go wrong in my understanding of that rule.
He can't.
1. Froome in midst of AAF for Specified Substance probe.
2. At this point, he is free to ride ... and is riding.
3. Before the Giro, he may well be sanctioned at not allowed to ride Giro, etc, etc. (I'd be totally cool with that.)
4. At the start of the Giro, his case may be yet unadjudicated
5. If there are no sanctions on him at that time, there are no WADA/UCI rules to prevent him from riding the Giro
6. Giro organizers/owners "may" try to prevent him from riding the Giro, using the recently pummelled "Disrepute" clause.
7. There are some on here who belive that the Disrepute Card will be played and easily played by Giro organizers, preventing Froome from riding the aforesaid race.
8. Some of the those, mentioned in #7, above, have a bona fide, unbiased opinion ... that Froome's appearance would ( measurably) bring the race into disrepute.
9. Some others ... of the those, mentioned in #7, above, ( I think it's safe to say) found Froome to bring professional cycling into disrepute ... well before his AAF ... because he was an extraterrestrial, was a member of Team Sky, had a wife named Michelle, had only 1 testicle, lacked panache, was MFkin gangly, etc.
10. Some of us on here, some of us "accused trolls" ... some of us with no allegiances to Froome or Sky ( but what would it matter?) ... believe that the Disrepute Card will be very hard for Giro organizers to play ... and for very good reasons.
 
Merckx index said:
samhocking said:
I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.
...
He says that during the last week of the Vuelta “a lot of people” were asking him if he was sick, and that “people could recognize that I was having difficulty breathing”. Really? I don’t remember anyone reporting this at the time. And again, we know from his comments prior to the RdS that Froome has a history of saying vaguely that a lot of people support some point of his, when in fact digging a little deeper that does not seem to be the case. Not that it matters, since his condition at this point isn't relevant to his case, unless he were to argue he accidentally inhaled too much, which of course he has steadfastly denied, or that he took some other drug for his condition.
....
LOL.
Nobody get's sick after 3 weeks and rides everyone off his wheel on the Angliru!!
 
Re: Re:

QUOTING Alpe73:

[/quote] 1. Froome in midst of AAF for Specified Substance probe.
2. At this point, he is free to ride ... and is riding.
3. Before the Giro, he may well be sanctioned at not allowed to ride Giro, etc, etc. (I'd be totally cool with that.)
4. At the start of the Giro, his case may be yet unadjudicated
5. If there are no sanctions on him at that time, there are no WADA/UCI rules to prevent him from riding the Giro
6. Giro organizers/owners "may" try to prevent him from riding the Giro, using the recently pummelled "Disrepute" clause.
7. There are some on here who belive that the Disrepute Card will be played and easily played by Giro organizers, preventing Froome from riding the aforesaid race.
8. Some of the those, mentioned in #7, above, have a bona fide, unbiased opinion ... that Froome's appearance would ( measurably) bring the race into disrepute.
9. Some others ... of the those, mentioned in #7, above, ( I think it's safe to say) found Froome to bring professional cycling into disrepute ... well before his AAF ... because he was an extraterrestrial, was a member of Team Sky, had a wife named Michelle, had only 1 testicle, lacked panache, was MFkin gangly, etc.
10. Some of us on here, some of us "accused trolls" ... some of us with no allegiances to Froome or Sky ( but what would it matter?) ... believe that the Disrepute Card will be very hard for Giro organizers to play ... and for very good reasons.[/quote]

No-one asked you opinion, but had to respond? You had a change of sift with your buddy?

Anyway - although I said this debate is done for me, I decided to respond to this. I also decided to report this post and seek for mods opinion whether this message accounts for potential false accusation of other forum members, because you are using lies wihtin your message to boost your own (biased or not, who cares) point and make others look stupid. It is also pretty easy to identify who you talk about, although you cleverly point it to no-one spesific. Let me explain:

1. I agree, never said anything otherwise. I haven't seen anyone else saying otherwise either.

2. I agree. The rules allows him to ride until someone takes other actions against him based on rules

3. I agree. I would be totally cool if he gets cleared out as well.

4. I agree. Though multiple poster including me has said this would be very bad for the sport and they should speed up the process.

5. I don't agree. There is a rule that allows organizers to decline him racing. I've asked time and time again someone to explain why that rule does not allow organizers to potentially decline him from racing. It is a rule like any other rule.

6. You yourself contradict from your #5. First you said there is no rule. Now you refer to the rule. It is as powerful rule as any other in the rulebook.

7. And now the lying starts to add things that boost your stance and makes others look stupid. I have never said it would be easy for the organizer to invoke the disrepute rule clause. I don't recall anyone else saying it would be easy. This is balant lie. We have only argued there is a rule that gives them the right to act. No-one has been able to prove that there is not rule.

8. Another lie. I don't recall anyone saying they have bona fide, unbiaset opinion that Froome riding would harm the reputation of race. You are saying they are bona fide and unbiaset and you categorize the writes here by saying that without knowing factually. I don't think anyone has either said the pure appearance of Froome would disrepute the race. What I'm saying is that the possible stripping of his results afterwards, due to known AAF investigation, would harm the reputation of the race and sport. I.e. known Sky fan Parker admitted this would be harmful to the reputation. You could add sub-bullet #8.5 which says that we shouldn't know about the investigation. Which I agree based on rules. That doesn't change the fact that we know it and it is public.

9. This point has nothing to do with the debate we are having. You are using forum members dislike of a rider as vehicle to point out the writer debating about the rules are stupid, wrong and biased. I've never said anywhere that Froome is bringing the sport into dis-repute by his mere excistence. So actually you are lying to point this opinion into this debate.

10. See the response to #7. Why would you need to power your message with this statement and "accused troll" into picture while you had already #5 where you could've explained the easy/hard part? I repeat, I've never said, and I haven't seen nobody else saying, that banning Froome from i.e. would be easy. Never. That is in your head and is a balant lie. I just argue there is a rule that makes it possible.

See this is how you work. Lot of good and agreeable material, but then twisting the thruth here and there to make others look stupid. And using fancy laid back language to show that you mean no harm. ***.
 
Re: Re:

Alpe73 said:
1. Froome in midst of AAF for Specified Substance probe.
2. At this point, he is free to ride ... and is riding.
3. Before the Giro, he may well be sanctioned at not allowed to ride Giro, etc, etc. (I'd be totally cool with that.)
4. At the start of the Giro, his case may be yet unadjudicated
5. If there are no sanctions on him at that time, there are no WADA/UCI rules to prevent him from riding the Giro
6. Giro organizers/owners "may" try to prevent him from riding the Giro, using the recently pummelled "Disrepute" clause.
7. There are some on here who belive that the Disrepute Card will be played and easily played by Giro organizers, preventing Froome from riding the aforesaid race.
8. Some of the those, mentioned in #7, above, have a bona fide, unbiased opinion ... that Froome's appearance would ( measurably) bring the race into disrepute.
9. Some others ... of the those, mentioned in #7, above, ( I think it's safe to say) found Froome to bring professional cycling into disrepute ... well before his AAF ... because he was an extraterrestrial, was a member of Team Sky, had a wife named Michelle, had only 1 testicle, lacked panache, was MFkin gangly, etc.
10. Some of us on here, some of us "accused trolls" ... some of us with no allegiances to Froome or Sky ( but what would it matter?) ... believe that the Disrepute Card will be very hard for Giro organizers to play ... and for very good reasons.
Clear to me...
 
brownbobby said:
53*11 said:
samhocking said:
To be fair, it would never be an issue with Bardiani riders riding Giro anyway, because their AAFs have all been for non-specified substances, not theraputic ones, so the rider is suspended imediatly on the AAF anyway, not the decision.
Legally, Giro won't have a leg to stand on. The only way they would prevent Froome riding would be remove itself from under UCI sanction and operate anti-doping with Italian NADO I assume so they could apply the rules they want.
I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.
give that man a prize, thats the most daft, laughable, inane comment of the day for me (and there was stiff competition!) thanks sam :razz:
Why is it daft, laughable or indeed inane for Sam to think that in a ĺittle over 2 months time the case will be over and Froome will be cleared. :confused:

Of course he's just guessing and voicing an opinion, I'm guessing it's a different opinion to yours, but one shared by many others.

BTW.....being cleared doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. That's entirely different.
Well Moore, if we didn't know already, confirmed his place in the long line of sycophantic writers (I would not use the term journalist - after all here is man who did his last Froome interview at exactly the same time as real journalists were breaking the AAF story) with his "he just lost the fat" Esquire piece, aided and abetted (willingly or otherwise) by Swart. So...what could they be up to this time? I don't think its a coincidence that SDB is talking about puffs (i.e. an input that is impossible to verify) rather than the verifiable output which is all to verifiable i.e. 2000. Its the 2000 that is the issue here...its very very very difficult to explain away with 'puffs'...unless you 'believe'..........So here we have a test result which shows a substance used at PED level and a contributor believing in the athlete's protestations of innocence.........I wonder if you'd like to hazard a guess at the proportion of athletes who put their hands up when caught and say...'it's a fair cop guv'.....so is using Moore and protestations of innocence from cyclist (remembering the 2000 result) laughable? eh....yes....indeed so laughable that it should be said in the manner of Jesus (not that one) from the Big Lebowski ;)
 
gillan1969 said:
brownbobby said:
53*11 said:
samhocking said:
To be fair, it would never be an issue with Bardiani riders riding Giro anyway, because their AAFs have all been for non-specified substances, not theraputic ones, so the rider is suspended imediatly on the AAF anyway, not the decision.
Legally, Giro won't have a leg to stand on. The only way they would prevent Froome riding would be remove itself from under UCI sanction and operate anti-doping with Italian NADO I assume so they could apply the rules they want.
I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.
give that man a prize, thats the most daft, laughable, inane comment of the day for me (and there was stiff competition!) thanks sam :razz:
Why is it daft, laughable or indeed inane for Sam to think that in a ĺittle over 2 months time the case will be over and Froome will be cleared. :confused:

Of course he's just guessing and voicing an opinion, I'm guessing it's a different opinion to yours, but one shared by many others.

BTW.....being cleared doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. That's entirely different.
Well Moore, if we didn't know already, confirmed his place in the long line of sycophantic writers (I would not use the term journalist - after all here is man who did his last Froome interview at exactly the same time as real journalists were breaking the AAF story) with his "he just lost the fat" Esquire piece, aided and abetted (willingly or otherwise) by Swart. So...what could they be up to this time? I don't think its a coincidence that SDB is talking about puffs (i.e. an input that is impossible to verify) rather than the verifiable output which is all to verifiable i.e. 2000. Its the 2000 that is the issue here...its very very very difficult to explain away with 'puffs'...unless you 'believe'..........So here we have a test result which shows a substance used at PED level and a contributor believing in the athlete's protestations of innocence.........I wonder if you'd like to hazard a guess at the proportion of athletes who put their hands up when caught and say...'it's a fair cop guv'.....so is using Moore and protestations of innocence from cyclist (remembering the 2000 result) laughable? eh....yes....indeed so laughable that it should be said in the manner of Jesus (not that one) from the Big Lebowski ;)
You seem to have missed my point, which was purely a response to the highlighted conclusion in the original post. Sam has an opinion, he doesn't say its purely based on the things you list above.

According to the poll over on the Salbutamol thread, approximately 1 in 4 people agree with him.

FWIW, i dont agree with him, i think he'll be sanctioned, but i wouldn't bet my house on it. But that's irrelevant to my post.

When everyone's opinion is largely guesswork, then for someone to think that another persons opinion which happens to be different to their own is 'inane', well that's just a little bit......dare i say inane.
 
Re: Re:

bambino said:
5. I don't agree. There is a rule that allows organizers to decline him racing. I've asked time and time again someone to explain why that rule does not allow organizers to potentially decline him from racing. It is a rule like any other rule.
You have had it explained to you. Clearly, patiently, in detail. The logical absurdity of your argument has been demonstrated to you. You are either unwilling or unable to accept this.

The solution is simple: stop trying to convince us of your legal expertise. Take your opinion to RCS/UCI. When they fall back on the Disrepute clause, feel vindicated.
 
Mod hat on:

Right, I have just removed a very large number of posts that we will be going through and deciding what to do. I can't actually believe I need to point this out to (I assume) adults but here goes:

1. Stop insulting each other. You play the post, not the poster.

2. You are not required to reply to every single post in a topic. If you disagree with something you can either reply or ignore it.

3. If you have a problem with a post you can report it. If you report a post and then respond in kind to it we will generally take a dim view of this. If you think a post is worth reporting then you should also think it best not to reply.

4. Mods do the work in their free time. We get to reports as and when we can and we may take time to deal with them and discuss the issues. Just because you believe something hasn't been dealt with doesn't mean it either hasn't or won't. We work as a team.

5. Just because you report something does not mean we will agree with you. We try to be as fair as possible and allow as much discussion as possible.


We've been really generous so far, several people could have been given bans but we are aware this issue will make people emotional and irrational. We don't want to ban people, we'd much prefer to log in and see nothing we have to deal with. This is a final warning. The next post we see that we feel is a personal attack will result in a suspension, likely a long one.
 
Re: Re:

bambino said:
QUOTING Alpe73:
1. Froome in midst of AAF for Specified Substance probe.
2. At this point, he is free to ride ... and is riding.
3. Before the Giro, he may well be sanctioned at not allowed to ride Giro, etc, etc. (I'd be totally cool with that.)
4. At the start of the Giro, his case may be yet unadjudicated
5. If there are no sanctions on him at that time, there are no WADA/UCI rules to prevent him from riding the Giro
6. Giro organizers/owners "may" try to prevent him from riding the Giro, using the recently pummelled "Disrepute" clause.
7. There are some on here who belive that the Disrepute Card will be played and easily played by Giro organizers, preventing Froome from riding the aforesaid race.
8. Some of the those, mentioned in #7, above, have a bona fide, unbiased opinion ... that Froome's appearance would ( measurably) bring the race into disrepute.
9. Some others ... of the those, mentioned in #7, above, ( I think it's safe to say) found Froome to bring professional cycling into disrepute ... well before his AAF ... because he was an extraterrestrial, was a member of Team Sky, had a wife named Michelle, had only 1 testicle, lacked panache, was MFkin gangly, etc.
10. Some of us on here, some of us "accused trolls" ... some of us with no allegiances to Froome or Sky ( but what would it matter?) ... believe that the Disrepute Card will be very hard for Giro organizers to play ... and for very good reasons.[/quote]

No-one asked you opinion, but had to respond? You had a change of sift with your buddy?

Anyway - although I said this debate is done for me, I decided to respond to this. I also decided to report this post and seek for mods opinion whether this message accounts for potential false accusation of other forum members, because you are using lies wihtin your message to boost your own (biased or not, who cares) point and make others look stupid. It is also pretty easy to identify who you talk about, although you cleverly point it to no-one spesific. Let me explain:

1. I agree, never said anything otherwise. I haven't seen anyone else saying otherwise either.

2. I agree. The rules allows him to ride until someone takes other actions against him based on rules

3. I agree. I would be totally cool if he gets cleared out as well.

4. I agree. Though multiple poster including me has said this would be very bad for the sport and they should speed up the process.

5. I don't agree. There is a rule that allows organizers to decline him racing. I've asked time and time again someone to explain why that rule does not allow organizers to potentially decline him from racing. It is a rule like any other rule.

6. You yourself contradict from your #5. First you said there is no rule. Now you refer to the rule. It is as powerful rule as any other in the rulebook.

7. And now the lying starts to add things that boost your stance and makes others look stupid. I have never said it would be easy for the organizer to invoke the disrepute rule clause. I don't recall anyone else saying it would be easy. This is balant lie. We have only argued there is a rule that gives them the right to act. No-one has been able to prove that there is not rule.

8. Another lie. I don't recall anyone saying they have bona fide, unbiaset opinion that Froome riding would harm the reputation of race. You are saying they are bona fide and unbiaset and you categorize the writes here by saying that without knowing factually. I don't think anyone has either said the pure appearance of Froome would disrepute the race. What I'm saying is that the possible stripping of his results afterwards, due to known AAF investigation, would harm the reputation of the race and sport. I.e. known Sky fan Parker admitted this would be harmful to the reputation. You could add sub-bullet #8.5 which says that we shouldn't know about the investigation. Which I agree based on rules. That doesn't change the fact that we know it and it is public.

9. This point has nothing to do with the debate we are having. You are using forum members dislike of a rider as vehicle to point out the writer debating about the rules are stupid, wrong and biased. I've never said anywhere that Froome is bringing the sport into dis-repute by his mere excistence. So actually you are lying to point this opinion into this debate.

10. See the response to #7. Why would you need to power your message with this statement and "accused troll" into picture while you had already #5 where you could've explained the easy/hard part? I repeat, I've never said, and I haven't seen nobody else saying, that banning Froome from i.e. would be easy. Never. That is in your head and is a balant lie. I just argue there is a rule that makes it possible.

See this is how you work. Lot of good and agreeable material, but then twisting the thruth here and there to make others look stupid. And using fancy laid back language to show that you mean no harm. ***.[/quote]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bambino ... I bear you no malice.

Like you, I have a right to express my opinion. The Clinic is open 24/7 ... with a big feckin Neon sign ... saying ... "Give us your opinion."

Nothing that I said in my (quoted) post (except the 1 testicle embellishment ;) ) is a lie or a misrepresentation of Clinic sentiment. These are simply statements made to rebut arguments in a spirited debate/banter.

Trying to make people look stupid? Absolutely not true.

Indeed ... having a dissenting opinion on this thread usually attracts a lot of heat, accusations of Fanboy, etc. I'm cool with it. This is a sports banter room. Don't take yourself and the topic so seriously. Just sayin. Peace.
 
I'm just listening to that Moore interview.

Absolutely laughable. The bloke (Dawg) is a complete and utter fraud. He says that loads of jurnos were asking if he was ill, as mentioned previously. Yet not ONE word of this was put out to the general public. He tells that many lies he doesn't understand reality now/
 
Merckx index said:
One thing we can be pretty sure of is that if another athlete tested at 2000 ng/ml and got off, this surely would have been discovered (because if all these athletes were willing to talk to Froome about this, they surely would have talked to others) and referred to by one of the preceding riders who exceeded the DL and didn't get off.
FYI, the O'Mahony GAA case, which I have referred to before: 1,977ng/ml.

But the notion that Froome might be talking up the level of support he's getting? I am shocked — shocked — to find that gambling is going on in here!

(To be fair to the man, for just a moment: others - Lappartient esp - are fighting this same battle on the opposite front, talking things up, trying to win the fight for public opinion. Of course Froome is going to play the same way.)
 
Aug 3, 2010
843
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0
Re: Re:

bambino said:
QUOTING Alpe73:
1. Froome in midst of AAF for Specified Substance probe.
2. At this point, he is free to ride ... and is riding.
3. Before the Giro, he may well be sanctioned at not allowed to ride Giro, etc, etc. (I'd be totally cool with that.)
4. At the start of the Giro, his case may be yet unadjudicated
5. If there are no sanctions on him at that time, there are no WADA/UCI rules to prevent him from riding the Giro
6. Giro organizers/owners "may" try to prevent him from riding the Giro, using the recently pummelled "Disrepute" clause.
7. There are some on here who belive that the Disrepute Card will be played and easily played by Giro organizers, preventing Froome from riding the aforesaid race.
8. Some of the those, mentioned in #7, above, have a bona fide, unbiased opinion ... that Froome's appearance would ( measurably) bring the race into disrepute.
9. Some others ... of the those, mentioned in #7, above, ( I think it's safe to say) found Froome to bring professional cycling into disrepute ... well before his AAF ... because he was an extraterrestrial, was a member of Team Sky, had a wife named Michelle, had only 1 testicle, lacked panache, was MFkin gangly, etc.
10. Some of us on here, some of us "accused trolls" ... some of us with no allegiances to Froome or Sky ( but what would it matter?) ... believe that the Disrepute Card will be very hard for Giro organizers to play ... and for very good reasons.[/quote]

No-one asked you opinion, but had to respond? You had a change of sift with your buddy?

Anyway - although I said this debate is done for me, I decided to respond to this. I also decided to report this post and seek for mods opinion whether this message accounts for potential false accusation of other forum members, because you are using lies wihtin your message to boost your own (biased or not, who cares) point and make others look stupid. It is also pretty easy to identify who you talk about, although you cleverly point it to no-one spesific. Let me explain:

1. I agree, never said anything otherwise. I haven't seen anyone else saying otherwise either.

2. I agree. The rules allows him to ride until someone takes other actions against him based on rules

3. I agree. I would be totally cool if he gets cleared out as well.

4. I agree. Though multiple poster including me has said this would be very bad for the sport and they should speed up the process.

5. I don't agree. There is a rule that allows organizers to decline him racing. I've asked time and time again someone to explain why that rule does not allow organizers to potentially decline him from racing. It is a rule like any other rule.

6. You yourself contradict from your #5. First you said there is no rule. Now you refer to the rule. It is as powerful rule as any other in the rulebook.

7. And now the lying starts to add things that boost your stance and makes others look stupid. I have never said it would be easy for the organizer to invoke the disrepute rule clause. I don't recall anyone else saying it would be easy. This is balant lie. We have only argued there is a rule that gives them the right to act. No-one has been able to prove that there is not rule.

8. Another lie. I don't recall anyone saying they have bona fide, unbiaset opinion that Froome riding would harm the reputation of race. You are saying they are bona fide and unbiaset and you categorize the writes here by saying that without knowing factually. I don't think anyone has either said the pure appearance of Froome would disrepute the race. What I'm saying is that the possible stripping of his results afterwards, due to known AAF investigation, would harm the reputation of the race and sport. I.e. known Sky fan Parker admitted this would be harmful to the reputation. You could add sub-bullet #8.5 which says that we shouldn't know about the investigation. Which I agree based on rules. That doesn't change the fact that we know it and it is public.

9. This point has nothing to do with the debate we are having. You are using forum members dislike of a rider as vehicle to point out the writer debating about the rules are stupid, wrong and biased. I've never said anywhere that Froome is bringing the sport into dis-repute by his mere excistence. So actually you are lying to point this opinion into this debate.

10. See the response to #7. Why would you need to power your message with this statement and "accused troll" into picture while you had already #5 where you could've explained the easy/hard part? I repeat, I've never said, and I haven't seen nobody else saying, that banning Froome from i.e. would be easy. Never. That is in your head and is a balant lie. I just argue there is a rule that makes it possible.

See this is how you work. Lot of good and agreeable material, but then twisting the thruth here and there to make others look stupid. And using fancy laid back language to show that you mean no harm. ***.[/quote]

Spot on bambino.
 
Aug 3, 2010
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Re: Re:

fmk_RoI said:
bambino said:
5. I don't agree. There is a rule that allows organizers to decline him racing. I've asked time and time again someone to explain why that rule does not allow organizers to potentially decline him from racing. It is a rule like any other rule.
You have had it explained to you. Clearly, patiently, in detail. The logical absurdity of your argument has been demonstrated to you. You are either unwilling or unable to accept this.

The solution is simple: stop trying to convince us of your legal expertise. Take your opinion to RCS/UCI. When they fall back on the Disrepute clause, feel vindicated.
Yeah we get. Just as bambino said. You think we are not only wrong, but stupid for not agreeing with you.
 
Re:

MartinGT said:
I'm just listening to that Moore interview.

Absolutely laughable. The bloke (Dawg) is a complete and utter fraud. He says that loads of jurnos were asking if he was ill, as mentioned previously. Yet not ONE word of this was put out to the general public. He tells that many lies he doesn't understand reality now/
Hello Martin. Would you mind posting a link so that I can listen to the interview please?

Apologies if it is already posted somewhere in here amongst the flying handbags. ;)
 
Feb 5, 2018
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I think the case is nearly over anyway, sounds like Froome is very confident no rules have been broken from his latest interview with Moore and even Moore himself was shocked at the level of confidence from within Team Sky. Could all be a big bluff of course, but I think he will be cleared by then anyway.[/quote]

give that man a prize, thats the most daft, laughable, inane comment of the day for me (and there was stiff competition!) thanks sam :razz:[/quote]

Why is it daft, laughable or indeed inane for Sam to think that in a ĺittle over 2 months time the case will be over and Froome will be cleared. :confused:

Of course he's just guessing and voicing an opinion, I'm guessing it's a different opinion to yours, but one shared by many others.

BTW.....being cleared doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. That's entirely different.[/quote]

Well Moore, if we didn't know already, confirmed his place in the long line of sycophantic writers (I would not use the term journalist - after all here is man who did his last Froome interview at exactly the same time as real journalists were breaking the AAF story) with his "he just lost the fat" Esquire piece, aided and abetted (willingly or otherwise) by Swart. So...what could they be up to this time? I don't think its a coincidence that SDB is talking about puffs (i.e. an input that is impossible to verify) rather than the verifiable output which is all to verifiable i.e. 2000. Its the 2000 that is the issue here...its very very very difficult to explain away with 'puffs'...unless you 'believe'..........So here we have a test result which shows a substance used at PED level and a contributor believing in the athlete's protestations of innocence.........I wonder if you'd like to hazard a guess at the proportion of athletes who put their hands up when caught and say...'it's a fair cop guv'.....so is using Moore and protestations of innocence from cyclist (remembering the 2000 result) laughable? eh....yes....indeed so laughable that it should be said in the manner of Jesus (not that one) from the Big Lebowski ;)[/quote]

You seem to have missed my point, which was purely a response to the highlighted conclusion in the original post. Sam has an opinion, he doesn't say its purely based on the things you list above.

According to the poll over on the Salbutamol thread, approximately 1 in 4 people agree with him.

FWIW, i dont agree with him, i think he'll be sanctioned, but i wouldn't bet my house on it. But that's irrelevant to my post.

When everyone's opinion is largely guesswork, then for someone to think that another persons opinion which happens to be different to their own is 'inane', well that's just a little bit......dare i say inane.[/quote]


fine, you agree that it is likely froomes gets a sanction (since if he cant prove his 2000 level was through therapeutic use , then he must be sanctioned); but you dont think its laughable to suggest he is cleared, and ive no issue with that; im basing my opinion on the available facts we have in the public domain; ive not seen a credible explanation for how froome beats this and is cleared, even after 5 months); if froome is sanctioned for failing to provide a credible defence then at least it shows that he and sky are not above the law like any other rider/team.
 

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