Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Bronstein]

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

OK, so does this support or refute the suggestion...i.e, was Horner suddenly good enough to win a GT when he did because:

A) everyone else had stopped big time doping and he took a chance and got away with it
b) everyone including Horner had stopped big time doping and his natural abilities suddenly became relevant
c) doping was just the same as it had ever been, but suddenly for one race only, Horner found a magic formula that meant he was able to beat a fully doped field

 

[fmk_RoI]

POP!!! BANG!!! BOOOM!!! PIP!!!

Hear that? That's the sound of heads exploding. Duck and cover peeps, this could get moist:

“Just before we started the race, we looked at Chris’ numbers and he was miles away from where we thought he needed to be,” admitted Brailsford. “When we looked at them and calculated where we needed to be, we thought it was right on the limit, you know?”

Rather embarrassed, I suggest that Froome looked to be carrying more weight than usual. That he almost looked ‘fat’.

“He was!” admitted Brailsford. “If we had started the race with Chris where he needed to be and everything went according to plan, then we might [have been] OK. Then he crashed before the prologue and we thought we were screwed, that was it,” concluded the Sky boss.

Read the rest on Rouleur

 

[Blanco]

Kiwi rider George Bennett was involved in a clash with Chris Froome on the eighth stage of the Giro d'Italia.

Froome, who came off his bike during a climb five kilometres from the finish, then barged into Bennett as he sought to fight back.

The Tour de France winner isn't the greatest bike handler at the best of times, but was said to be "pedalling with a crazed, frantic cadence" prior to the collision, according to Eurosport.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/103856635/george-bennett-and-chris-froome-clash-during-frantic-finish-to-giro-ditalia-stage

Just to add to the ever bizarre nature of the Clinic’s favorite Dawg

So how about Froomes crashes being unable to control the motor ? that uphill crash, was his rear wheel sliding out on the corner due to that ? his crashes may not be crap bike handling but inability to control the motor at times.

Whatabout the downhill pedalling on the crossbar which 'he invented' - maybe because of the motor ?? other rides copying that now - Froome must be laughing about that one.

He didn't invented that, you should watch races more often...

 

[dacooley]

alright, he invented it on superelite gc level.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

OK, so does this support or refute the suggestion...i.e, was Horner suddenly good enough to win a GT when he did because:

A) everyone else had stopped big time doping and he took a chance and got away with it
b) everyone including Horner had stopped big time doping and his natural abilities suddenly became relevant
c) doping was just the same as it had ever been, but suddenly for one race only, Horner found a magic formula that meant he was able to beat a fully doped field

This is easy. None of the above.
Were you reading the forums or articles about Lance Armstrong? wasn't that the best example of differences in programs and behaviors?

 

[Bronstein]

Re: Re:

OK, so does this support or refute the suggestion...i.e, was Horner suddenly good enough to win a GT when he did because:

A) everyone else had stopped big time doping and he took a chance and got away with it
b) everyone including Horner had stopped big time doping and his natural abilities suddenly became relevant
c) doping was just the same as it had ever been, but suddenly for one race only, Horner found a magic formula that meant he was able to beat a fully doped field

None of the above.

The passport can be beaten with proper medical supervision and a willingness to push its boundaries.

In Froome's case, I'd say high octane fuel + weight loss drugs + quality doctor/trainer + ambition is the main recipe. That's not even taking into account the motor possibility.

Yes, probably less turbocharged riders in the whole peloton due to the medical supervision and money required to push the boundaries of the passport. That doesn't mean mean you can win the biggest races by merely microdosing EPO and using a bit of cortisone OOC.

 

[ppanther92]

Yeah, Froome invented the pedalling on the tube in downhills. And he invented cooling down too. Truly a cycling god.

Are you insane? Thats laughable...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwV3YUlZSxI

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

Froome's major problem will always be the fact that there were 2 versions of the same cyclist - before and after August 2011.

Given the history of the sport there is no logical explanation for his transformation in such a short time period. If he had shown some level of pedigree there would still be plenty of scepticism but he wouldn't attract near the same level of derision that he currently does. Many other top cyclists are known dopers or were strongly suspected of doping but none attract the same level of derision that Froome presently does.

The other factor that works against him is the team that he is employed by. Big, brash, deceitful, arrogant, powerful and full of PR bluster, they have tried to take the public for a ride since very shortly after their inception. I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

OK, let's propose a few options:

A. Froome is a product of strictly confidential labaratorian experiment, launched by Sky and Murdoch money, that enabled 3rd tier rolleur reborn into the best rider in the world

B. Froome really had some chest infection or something, which he's surely not outspoken about. As a result, this disease (fake or real) allowed him to recieve dozens of TUEs and lead him to using as much doping as he needs to destroy any field

C. Combination of A & B

D. Prior 2011, Froome was handled completely incorrectly training- and specialization-wise, while working with Kerrison alongside with extreme weight loss discovered a hidden talent

E. Grotesque mixture out of A, B, C and D

What option would you go with?

I would choose F. for some reason or another "protected" and thus gettin away with more, being warned or similar. In short - the Armstrong option. Of course Sky is very professional regarding their doping, but still it strikes me as very very unusual that Wiggins, Froome, Thomas transformed in the way they did. Kennaugh did somwhere fall off his transformation path for some reason and look what he is doing now at Bora - zilch.

 

[aphronesis]

Re:

POP!!! BANG!!! BOOOM!!! PIP!!!

Hear that? That's the sound of heads exploding. Duck and cover peeps, this could get moist:

“Just before we started the race, we looked at Chris’ numbers and he was miles away from where we thought he needed to be,” admitted Brailsford. “When we looked at them and calculated where we needed to be, we thought it was right on the limit, you know?”

Rather embarrassed, I suggest that Froome looked to be carrying more weight than usual. That he almost looked ‘fat’.

“He was!” admitted Brailsford. “If we had started the race with Chris where he needed to be and everything went according to plan, then we might [have been] OK. Then he crashed before the prologue and we thought we were screwed, that was it,” concluded the Sky boss.

Read the rest on Rouleur

Wait, so they have allhis other numbers, weigh bikes and likely food, but not Froome because it’s not the done thing.

Annd SDB said Chris old boy, have you packed on a few? And that was it?

Good thing the badzilla didn’t come back when he crashed.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

OK, so does this support or refute the suggestion...i.e, was Horner suddenly good enough to win a GT when he did because:

A) everyone else had stopped big time doping and he took a chance and got away with it
b) everyone including Horner had stopped big time doping and his natural abilities suddenly became relevant
c) doping was just the same as it had ever been, but suddenly for one race only, Horner found a magic formula that meant he was able to beat a fully doped field

None of the above.

The passport can be beaten with proper medical supervision and a willingness to push its boundaries.

In Froome's case, I'd say high octane fuel + weight loss drugs + quality doctor/trainer + ambition is the main recipe. That's not even taking into account the motor possibility.

Yes, probably less turbocharged riders in the whole peloton due to the medical supervision and money required to push the boundaries of the passport. That doesn't mean mean you can win the biggest races by merely microdosing EPO and using a bit of cortisone OOC.

The passport can also be beaten if you have a "reset button" like badzilla. Any previous crappy numbers were due to the illness. Now the body is in its healthy state, so of course the numbers are way better.

Geezus probably gets more leeway on his passport too, but he earned his the hard way, losing his spleen in a terrible crash.

Probably a few other guys in the peloton with situations that give them a permanent pass (wiggle room) on biopassport irregularities. Then there's the run-of-the-mill illnesses and dehydration that can explain a little blip here or there on the data.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

OK, so does this support or refute the suggestion...i.e, was Horner suddenly good enough to win a GT when he did because:

A) everyone else had stopped big time doping and he took a chance and got away with it
b) everyone including Horner had stopped big time doping and his natural abilities suddenly became relevant
c) doping was just the same as it had ever been, but suddenly for one race only, Horner found a magic formula that meant he was able to beat a fully doped field

None of the above.

The passport can be beaten with proper medical supervision and a willingness to push its boundaries.

In Froome's case, I'd say high octane fuel + weight loss drugs + quality doctor/trainer + ambition is the main recipe. That's not even taking into account the motor possibility.

Yes, probably less turbocharged riders in the whole peloton due to the medical supervision and money required to push the boundaries of the passport. That doesn't mean mean you can win the biggest races by merely microdosing EPO and using a bit of cortisone OOC.

The passport can also be beaten if you have a "reset button" like badzilla. Any previous crappy numbers were due to the illness. Now the body is in its healthy state, so of course the numbers are way better.

Geezus probably gets more leeway on his passport too, but he earned his the hard way, losing his spleen in a terrible crash.

Probably a few other guys in the peloton with situations that give them a permanent pass (wiggle room) on biopassport irregularities. Then there's the run-of-the-mill illnesses and dehydration that can explain a little blip here or there on the data.

Agreed.

Going up and down from altitude is also your best friend, the passport provides more leeway prior, during and after being at altitude.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

Like Astana, who are far dirtier than sky have ever been (based on actual evidence rather than rumour, conjecture and hearsay), who are run by one of the most unrepentent dopers ever, and whose rider won the 2014 TDF by over 7 minutes. However there is about 30 posts on Nibali being a doper, and 1500+ pages about Froome.
Conclusion, nobody on here gives a **** about doping, but they do give a **** about xenophobia and personalities.

Of course you conveniently fail to mention that his primary opposition both crashed out of the Tour that year, which may in some way explain the 7 minute margin of victory.

 

[aphronesis]

@ FMK

Is the quote from the article? Is the quote from SDB? Or maybe a retweet from a third hand source? Should it be excluded from the substance of the article?


Given the level of excuses piled up over the years and I’m busy, maybe give a little more before I get excited to read the explanation of the morning.

I’m busy and I can wait.


Edited by King Boonen: reference to removed post deleted.

 

[gillan1969]

what more could he do?

give Swart and Ashenden a blood sample morning and night every day of the tour and provide power and heart rate data..

remains confidential until he retires (if needs be)...seeing what it actually takes to win Le Tour rather than an hour in a lab would surely be of far wider public interest....

 

[Climbing]

Re:

POP!!! BANG!!! BOOOM!!! PIP!!!

Hear that? That's the sound of heads exploding. Duck and cover peeps, this could get moist:

“Just before we started the race, we looked at Chris’ numbers and he was miles away from where we thought he needed to be,” admitted Brailsford. “When we looked at them and calculated where we needed to be, we thought it was right on the limit, you know?”

Rather embarrassed, I suggest that Froome looked to be carrying more weight than usual. That he almost looked ‘fat’.

“He was!” admitted Brailsford. “If we had started the race with Chris where he needed to be and everything went according to plan, then we might [have been] OK. Then he crashed before the prologue and we thought we were screwed, that was it,” concluded the Sky boss.

Read the rest on Rouleur

If this isn't taking the piss...

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

POP!!! BANG!!! BOOOM!!! PIP!!!

Hear that? That's the sound of heads exploding. Duck and cover peeps, this could get moist:

“Just before we started the race, we looked at Chris’ numbers and he was miles away from where we thought he needed to be,” admitted Brailsford. “When we looked at them and calculated where we needed to be, we thought it was right on the limit, you know?”

Rather embarrassed, I suggest that Froome looked to be carrying more weight than usual. That he almost looked ‘fat’.

“He was!” admitted Brailsford. “If we had started the race with Chris where he needed to be and everything went according to plan, then we might [have been] OK. Then he crashed before the prologue and we thought we were screwed, that was it,” concluded the Sky boss.

Read the rest on Rouleur

If this isn't taking the piss...

yup....Team Sky and the Giro 2018, it's like it's the etoile des besseges circa 1982

 

[wansteadimp]

Re:

Yeah, Froome invented the pedalling on the tube in downhills. And he invented cooling down too. Truly a cycling god.

Are you insane? Thats laughable...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwV3YUlZSxI

Our Lord God Carlton of Kirby said he invented it, so it must be true.

Either that or Carlton knows the square root of f'all.

Take your pick.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Froome's major problem will always be the fact that there were 2 versions of the same cyclist - before and after August 2011.

Given the history of the sport there is no logical explanation for his transformation in such a short time period. If he had shown some level of pedigree there would still be plenty of scepticism but he wouldn't attract near the same level of derision that he currently does. Many other top cyclists are known dopers or were strongly suspected of doping but none attract the same level of derision that Froome presently does.

The other factor that works against him is the team that he is employed by. Big, brash, deceitful, arrogant, powerful and full of PR bluster, they have tried to take the public for a ride since very shortly after their inception. I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

OK, let's propose a few options:

A. Froome is a product of strictly confidential labaratorian experiment, launched by Sky and Murdoch money, that enabled 3rd tier rolleur reborn into the best rider in the world

B. Froome really had some chest infection or something, which he's surely not outspoken about. As a result, this disease (fake or real) allowed him to recieve dozens of TUEs and lead him to using as much doping as he needs to destroy any field

C. Combination of A & B

D. Prior 2011, Froome was handled completely incorrectly training- and specialization-wise, while working with Kerrison alongside with extreme weight loss discovered a hidden talent

E. Grotesque mixture out of A, B, C and D

What option would you go with?

I would choose F. for some reason or another "protected" and thus gettin away with more, being warned or similar. In short - the Armstrong option. Of course Sky is very professional regarding their doping, but still it strikes me as very very unusual that Wiggins, Froome, Thomas transformed in the way they did. Kennaugh did somwhere fall off his transformation path for some reason and look what he is doing now at Bora - zilch.

OK. So having accepted this argument, we come to the conclusion that a rider of Armstrong's / Froome's scale can be relatively easily grown out of 100-120 world tour pros? though, I don't think it's so transparent as Sky is hardly the only team that makes use of UCI protection.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

Like Astana, who are far dirtier than sky have ever been (based on actual evidence rather than rumour, conjecture and hearsay), who are run by one of the most unrepentent dopers ever, and whose rider won the 2014 TDF by over 7 minutes. However there is about 30 posts on Nibali being a doper, and 1500+ pages about Froome.
Conclusion, nobody on here gives a **** about doping, but they do give a **** about xenophobia and personalities.

Of course you conveniently fail to mention that his primary opposition both crashed out of the Tour that year, which may in some way explain the 7 minute margin of victory.

the clinic isn't interested in context(unless it suits them)

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re: Re:

I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

Like Astana, who are far dirtier than sky have ever been (based on actual evidence rather than rumour, conjecture and hearsay), who are run by one of the most unrepentent dopers ever, and whose rider won the 2014 TDF by over 7 minutes. However there is about 30 posts on Nibali being a doper, and 1500+ pages about Froome.
Conclusion, nobody on here gives a **** about doping, but they do give a **** about xenophobia and personalities.

Of course you conveniently fail to mention that his primary opposition both crashed out of the Tour that year, which may in some way explain the 7 minute margin of victory.

the clinic isn't interested in context(unless it suits them)

Rick you are part of the clinic - just look at how many times you are posting.

Us and them
And after all we're only ordinary men
Me and you
God only knows
It's not what we would choose to do

 

[fmk_RoI]

l @Gazzetta_it

- ASO está dispuesta a excluir a Froome del Tour si el caso de su positivo no está resuelto antes

- Podrían haberle ofrecido un pacto: 6 meses de sanción y la pérdida de Vuelta y bronce mundial. Froome lo habría rechazado porque quiere salir absuelto

Apparently ASO are looking to exclude Froome, offered him a 6 month pact but he refused. News at 10

According to Nieuwsblad the 'ASO offers Froome a six month ban' story is a conflation of two different news items. In one, the UCI, at a point in the process not detailed, offered Froome six months and the loss of the Vuelta and his World's bronze. Sky, it is claimed rejected this plea bargain.

La Gazzetta then also reported on ASO having the disrepute clause with which to attempt to block Froome. Presumably Ciro, being away on the Giro, took this long to notice Lappartient floating this a full week ago.

 

[brownbobby]

what more could he do?

give Swart and Ashenden a blood sample morning and night every day of the tour and provide power and heart rate data..

remains confidential until he retires (if needs be)...seeing what it actually takes to win Le Tour rather than an hour in a lab would surely be of far wider public interest....

Blood sample morning and night every day for 21 days. Jeez...he's need a course of Epo and a blood bag on the rest days just to replace what he's lost giving the samples

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

Like Astana, who are far dirtier than sky have ever been (based on actual evidence rather than rumour, conjecture and hearsay), who are run by one of the most unrepentent dopers ever, and whose rider won the 2014 TDF by over 7 minutes. However there is about 30 posts on Nibali being a doper, and 1500+ pages about Froome.
Conclusion, nobody on here gives a **** about doping, but they do give a **** about xenophobia and personalities.

Of course you conveniently fail to mention that his primary opposition both crashed out of the Tour that year, which may in some way explain the 7 minute margin of victory.

the clinic isn't interested in context(unless it suits them)

Bearing in mind the mental contortions required to suit a "Sky do nothing wrong" narrative, and the way history has been rewritten around a couple of pretty decent days several years before his instant transformation, I would say that while you definitely have a point about "The Clinic" having issues with inconsistency when putting things in context, you are just as guilty of that as anybody on the other side of the divide you're so keen to foster. After all, why would you paint a forum as a hive mind (which you yourself post in, but of course you're above all of that, it's just those other posters in the Clinic that are crazy) if not to discredit it? Sure, there have been some crazy theories in the Clinic's history, but even so, very few of them are as crazy as the series of events that apparently led to Freeman's laptop being missing and his not being sanctioned for gross professional negligence. There's a lot of smoke, but nobody's quite sure where the fire is, and some people have a better idea of how to find it than others.

But I guess the plan is, wait for an outlandish theory, paint the whole Clinic as insane tinfoil hat wearers, then when several posters protest, use this as justification that everybody in the Clinic is of the same opinion because they all rejected your hypothesis that they were all insane. You aren't the first and you won't be the last with that modus operandi. It's a good racket.

 

[Breh]

Re: Re:

I suspect that if he was riding for another team and producing the same level of results, then he would gain a bit more respect.

Like Astana, who are far dirtier than sky have ever been (based on actual evidence rather than rumour, conjecture and hearsay), who are run by one of the most unrepentent dopers ever, and whose rider won the 2014 TDF by over 7 minutes. However there is about 30 posts on Nibali being a doper, and 1500+ pages about Froome.
Conclusion, nobody on here gives a **** about doping, but they do give a **** about xenophobia and personalities.

Ah, the xenophobia card.

Brilliant.