Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[jmdirt]

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[quote="

Legal discussion.
Google.
Why?

Since you stated the reason for the delay lay with the UCI without supporting evidence, you opened the line of discussion as to the reason behind the delay in resolving the case.

The delay has clearly been caused by
a. Sky fighting the AAF.
b. Sky not showing how the AAF occurred within the rules.
c. Sky not negotiating a penalty.
d. Sky landing 1500 pages on the judge's desk.
e. Sky's plan to play out the process till after the Tour de France.

That discussion is clearly a doping-related discussion. It cannot be held without discussing doping. Thus it belongs in the Clinic.

Nothing in my post was about doping. Had I gone on to discuss it, I would have brought it here...oh look I'm here. While I appreciate factual discussions as much as the next person, this entire forum is a place for opinion. Its my opinion that the case took too long to close.

 

[mrhender]

In some bizzare fashion I think Brailsford will enjoy all the attention at the tour. Froome and him could have a press conference in a few days to fend off some of all the questions but my take is he has some morbid fascination for the idea of being the secretive invincible. Marginal gains taken to next level.
Can see his smug face when acting offended to journos critical questions come le tour..

 

[Singer01]

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Really the hurt on here is unreal....on the plus side of all the people that keep shouting they are done with cycling actually do walk away the clinic might become a better place...

It seems unlikely that this will push them over the edge, they have been saying it for years, after every big stage Sky win practically. They really are the ultimate example of the 'boy who cried wolf'.
I'm in a weird position, I'm surprised he got off, and it might not be the best thing for the sport. However the reactions of the tin hat brigade is just so unbelievably funny that its almost worth it.

 

[mrhender]

Anyways, congrats Froome and Sky! Miracles do happen..

Btw think Reedie has been an absolute disaster. He is just the face though i guess.

 

[yaco]

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come on, guys, let's not get guided by emotions way too far. almost sure, nobody is going to quit following cycling. moreover, this case incredibly encourages to really hard cheer for any rider able to outperform froome and sky. so allez nibali and bardet, give us some proper redemption for all mockeries Sky force us to pass over. cycling circus continues its procession and doesn't depend on one's sentiments.

Well a CN contributor tweeted they were finished with cycling after the TDF.

 

[yaco]

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@KB Contador was unable to prove the contaminated steak theory was MORE plausible than any other theory.
Frustratingly if he had switched to a contaminated supplement defence (Froome's case shows us that you can freely switch between defences without damaging your credibility in the eyes of the jury) he would have gotten off most likely.

Several athletes have managed to show it was contaminated meat. If it were at all plausible he would have been fine, but it wasn't.

He didn't switch to supplements because there were other riders using the same supplements who were tested and not found to be positive. It might have been an easier sell but he'd still have struggled.

As to changing defence, we honestly have no idea what Froome's defence has been and how it has changed. We have a whole load of assumptions posted as if they are fact, but in reality we don't, and likely never will, know exactly how it proceeded. That just makes it even more frustrating.

How were the other athletes able to show it was contaminated meat? Did they have a sample?

They were in countries where use of clenbuterol to improve livestock yield isn't well monitored and testing has shown a high percentage of meat in these countries contains clenbuterol. Mexico and China spring to mind. This isn't the case in Spain.

So basically there was no proof really but they let him go.

KB's post clearly states it's a fact that in countries like Mexico and China that some meat contains clenbuterol - It seems to be crystal clear.

 

[shakey88]

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The sport is truly beyond repair.

Thanks for years of educational discussions, fellow clinicians. I guess this is a bridge too far for me, at least for the time being.

It is. The governing anti doping body WADA sides with the athlete against their own rules. There's not much more to be said really.

"In light of WADA’s unparalleled access to information and authorship of the salbutamol regime, the UCI has decided, based on WADA’s position, to close the proceedings against Mr Froome."

Dangerous precendent.
Dope all you want and when you get caught, claim the test or rules must be faulty because you have a clear conscience. Then pay an expert to write an article supporting your statement and/or send a bag of money to UCI HQ and you're good to go.

Bag of money? is there any evidence of this or is it something you made up?

Common Sense mate Common Sense. You do have some don't you????

Yes i have enough common sense not to accuse someone of something without a shred of proof just based on an assumption. Probably wouldn't stand up in court

 

[thehog]

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Anyways, congrats Froome and Sky! Miracles do happen..

Btw think Reedie has been an absolute disaster. He is just the face though i guess.

Have to agree. WADA inserted themselves into this situation to save the day for Froome. The UCI had no chance.

 

[yaco]

It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

Anyways, congrats Froome and Sky! Miracles do happen..

Btw think Reedie has been an absolute disaster. He is just the face though i guess.

Have to agree. WADA inserted themselves into this situation to save the day for Froome. The UCI had no chance.

Kreuziger was a big blow. Which i think Sky/Froome modelled their strategy upon. This case is an enormous disaster for WADA on every level from A-Z. And their selling it like a normal tuesday decision.

 

[mrhender]

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It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

Dont think it was a direct bribe. However every player here was interlinked and would take harm anyway this ended. Though seems Wada is walking away with nothing but red ears, while UCI, ASO, and Sky Froome of course all can take at least something.

Edit: what I mean is this case to me shows that the system is vulnerable to political/economical "blackmail".

 

[GraftPunk]

Well on the upside, the dawg will be at the TDF and able to take the piss. Win for everyone, read as you will.

 

[mrhender]

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Monday Morning Massacre at the Clinic. (MMM@C) Wowza!!!

Can't remember seeing this many spoiled sports (over the age of 8) assembled in one room. Hysteria, wailing, swooning, name calling … passing last rites on the sport.


More Hubris than Sky and Armstrong combined. So **** ironic.

Aaaand the many posts like this adds as much as the emotional overflow reactions does

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

Dont think it was a direct bribe. However every player here was interlinked and would take harm anyway this ended. Though seems Wada is walking away with nothing but red ears, while UCI, ASO, and Sky Froome of course all can take at least something.

Edit: what I mean is this case to me shows that the system is vulnerable to political/economical "blackmail".

Doesn’t need a bribe. It was similar to Russia in London and Sochi. Reedie wanted the Games to go on without doping spoiling the party. Here ASO forced the hand for an early decision on Froome, so WADA stepped in with ridiculous reasoning outside their own ruleset to let the Dawg ride. I’m sure we’ll never see the final evidence set but it certainly is a bizarre turn of events.

 

[gillan1969]

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Monday Morning Massacre at the Clinic. (MMM@C) Wowza!!!

Can't remember seeing this many spoiled sports (over the age of 8) assembled in one room. Hysteria, wailing, swooning, name calling … passing last rites on the sport.


More Hubris than Sky and Armstrong combined. So **** ironic.

you'll be welcoming the publication of the defence like the rest of us then? Oh...no you're the guy that accepts what the authorities tell you....

 

[samhocking]

Who's paying who here exactly for Froome to not AAF? Why not UCI just pay WADA to not AAF or Froome pay UCI to not ADRV him. If you want something protected, you don't first un-protect it, let everyone have a good look around it and then protect it back up again, you just protect it in the first place so nobody knows anything.

 

[silvergrenade]

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Who's paying who here exactly for Froome to not AAF? Why not UCI just pay WADA to not AAF or Froome pay UCI to not ADRV him. If you want something protected, you don't first un-protect it, let everyone have a good look around it and then protect it back up again, you just protect it in the first place so nobody knows anything.

This is the clinic..
Most of the time the logic is out...hate is in.

 

[Craigee]

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It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

are you saying there is only one person at the UCI? One employee can leak the test results and obviously any bribe would have to be with a top dog who was part of the decision to let him off and I would think the embarrassment would be worth it for the right price. It's happened before and will happen again.

WADA is a joke here as well.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

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It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

Any source for that or just guessing ?

 

[Benotti69]

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Who's paying who here exactly for Froome to not AAF? Why not UCI just pay WADA to not AAF or Froome pay UCI to not ADRV him. If you want something protected, you don't first un-protect it, let everyone have a good look around it and then protect it back up again, you just protect it in the first place so nobody knows anything.

Who leaked AAF?

Cookson for not getting re-elected?

Where is the website for payments for protection? Lots of teams and athletes would love to make a payment.

See some of them here

https://www.dopeology.org

 

[samhocking]

If I was Froome or Sky and i'd paid WADA or UCI, or if I was UCI and i'd paid WADA or whoever paid who for whatever favourable 'decision', I've gotta say I would want my money back. There's no way if I was Sky I would be happy with the deal so far that's for sure!

 

[Teddy Boom]

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Rather than a direct bribe or anything of the sort, I think it's more likely that UCI and WADA don't care all that much in the first place, and they're not willing to make the investment to fight a defendant with enough resources to bury them both. More and more often they'll refrain from pursuing even apparently slam-dunk cases, just in case they actually lose. Or they'll only dare to do it against nobodies who can't put up much of a fight.

This might just be the best explanation for it.

For some reason, your explanation brought Beckie Scott mugging for the camera at the 1h37m mark of Icarus into my mind. And where did I find that clip?!? Lance Armstrong interviewing Bryan Fogel! Part 1, part 2.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

Any source for that or just guessing ?

Well someone in the UCI leaked it didn't they ? Or doesn't that fit the narrative now

 

[mrhender]

The bribery theory is just water on the sky mill.
I dont see why it is necessary to explain this outcome with bribes when it is glaringly clear almost every actor here wanted this case to go far far far away. They ended up choosing the nuclear option for WADA. Just goes to show that WADA battling worldwide doping with 4 people from a shed in canada (borrowed from hitch) with a budget smaller than a pro-tour team is toothless and will remain toothless.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

It's hard to accept that the UCI would accept a bribe,seeing they leaked Froome's test results , while the final result has caused them embarrassment.

Any source for that or just guessing ?

Well someone in the UCI leaked it didn't they ? Or doesn't that fit the narrative now

Another guesser ?