Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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May 26, 2009
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murali said:
I thought this was a froome only thread and not a tony martin thread.
You understand just as well as I do that staying with a clean Tony or a doped Tony is a huge difference. In the former the argument could be that a clean Froome beats another clean human being. In the latter it's a clean Froome staying with a doped rider, only showing how huge the talent gap must be.

With Tony Martin, at least there is a history of strong TT performance, and whenever he was underperforming there was a plausible explanation for the same. Not the case with Froome, who magically starts doing consistently well.
Froome has a decent history in the TT's as well. Not saying his progress isn't eye-popping, but he finished second in a BIG TT several times already. In all fairness, Froome clearly has shown his TT skills quite early in his career. Froome is a young guy.

It's not the results that are surprising, it's the wattages and the combination of weightloss, enhanced climbing, yet unflagging TT skills that sound all alarms. We seen this before and besides Wiggo it never ended well. And Froome is several levels better at climbing than Wiggo.

Even with practice, making tangible improvement in any field is going to take time.
And with doping same way, "only" a higher ceiling.


And how many of you actually buy that Schistosomiasis story? Looks somewhat like the LA story. Looks damn good for PR. But any sane person living in a place where the likelihood for water-borne diseases takes care. Especially if your very livelihood depends on not falling sick. Even if he was actually infected with a parasite eating his red blood cells, he would have spotted the symptoms and got it cured.
Having lost my very experienced uncle in the tropics due to disease I simply must disagree here. These things simply happen.

Performance before and after the disease cannot vary by a large degree.
I'm no physiologist, but I'd tentatively agree here. My gut says the Bilharzia story can't be that important.
 
May 26, 2009
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EnacheV said:
so thats what is really all about?

buthurt south-europeans about not being no1 ?

sport history is full of this type of cycles. a simple look a football ECL winners list should help anyone understand, for example.
Owwww... jingoism pops up again.

Now of course you fully well know most people here seeing the problem witgh Froome are indeed not Southern European, so why lash out? If you try to argue it's because of the "dig at Anglo Saxon cycling" I must point out that official statements have lauded the Anglo Saxon model was to be praised as cleaner than the Southern model. Amazingly they explicitly lumped in Belgium and the Netherlands with the Anglo Saxons.

As we know of USPS, David Millar, Mapei and Rabo this is clearly complete and utter nonsense.

If anything, Spain and Italy are the countries working the hardest to prosecute dopers. The noble North Western Europeans are sweeping every scandal under the table.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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As bad as Froome is it would be hypocritical to block the race when pretty much every tour winner in the last 20-30 years has been dirty. Hopefully the truth will come out and he faces the consequences. Brailsford is the real villain.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Franklin said:
Owwww... jingoism pops up again.
Football: not the best sport to use as an example of natural form cycles based on performance. Match fixing and doping are the cornerstones there.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Franklin said:
The odds that he's doping are indeed overwhelming. That you don't care for the historical facts is odd to say the least.
Because it is pro - cycling?

Lets take a look at the list the reincarnation/wikiwarrior has presented to us:
[please note he has completely forgotten Dave Zabriskie and Greg LeMond]

1 David Millar - 54.359 km/h
Tour 2003
Stage 19 - Saturday, July 26: Pornic - Nantes, TT, 49 km
Weather conditions:
''The strong northwest wind that always comes up in the afternoon here could aid the day's final riders, as it will be behind and across them. There are predictions for a record average speed in this time trial, which would mean that the winner will have to average over 54.545 km/h to beat Greg Lemond's 1989 record between Versailles and Paris.

Strangely enough, in that 24.5 km time trial, Lemond erased a 50 second deficit to Frenchman Laurent Fignon to overhaul him and win the Tour by just eight seconds on the final stage. Today, Jan Ullrich needs to pull off a similar feat, as he has a 65 second deficit to Tour leader Lance Armstrong, who hasn't lost a final Tour time trial since he started winning the Tour in 1999. If Ullrich doesn't erase all that deficit, he has a slim chance of making up a few seconds in tomorrow's final stage into Paris.''

David Millar started early that day.

13:51 David Millar (GBr) Cofidis, Credit Par Telephone

''11:04 CEST
The weather conditions today are not brilliant, especially for the first riders. It's raining (not heavily), about 19 degrees and quite cloudy. The wind is a fairly stiff 25 km/h from the west-southwest.''

And then the wind changes in a tailwind.

''14:45 CEST
Millar is flying towards the finish, taking the last corner very steadily and holding it up, catching Sacchi at the end to finish in 54'05.13 (54.36 km/h). Not quite a record time...but still very fast.

Millar also crashed, and said that the last 15 km was incredibly dangerous. "The wheels were just sliding away...there was nothing you could do," he told TV1. "They should neutralise that last bit. Guys like Lance and Jan, they shouldn't have to take risks like that."

''16:15 CEST
Armstrong is now about 2 seconds behind Ullrich over this first part.

Ullrich passes the first time check in 15'42 - an average of 57.32 km/h....''

''The final results: Millar wins in 54'05, followed by Hamilton at 0'09, Armstrong at 0'14, Ullrich at 0'25 and Bodrogi at 0'26.''
So, when Saint David averages 54.359 km/h, what would Hamilton/Armstrong/Ullrich/Bodrogi's average be, over 49K?

3 Lance Armstrong - 53.986 km/h
and
4 Jan Ullrich - 53.642 km/h

Stage 19 - July 21 2000: Fribourg-En-Brisgau - Mulhouse, 58.5 km

''12:31 CET

The first few riders have passed through the second time check at Ottmarsheim (km 44), with Magnus Backstedt (CA) clocking the fastest at 52.53 (49.92 km/h). It should be a fast day today with 25 km/h tailwinds pushing the riders to Mulhouse.''

Final standings:

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.05.01 (53.98 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Deutsche Telekom 0.25
So, 25 seconds represents a 0.3km/h deficit, in this case.

Clearly a case of apples and oranges.

The Froome fans could try to explain how a rider who was never in the top 10 of a World Tour TT is now able to compete/let win Tony der Panzerwagen. Okay, he was 16th in the TT of the Tour in 2008.
Stage 20 - Saturday, July 26: Cérilly - Saint Amand Montrond (ITT), 53km

Results

1 Stefan Schumacher (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.03.50 (49.817 km/h)
16 Christopher Froome (Ken) Barloworld 3.00
In that same year 2008 der Panzerwagen [23 years at that time, same as Froome] was already second in the Milano TT in the Giro, over 28.5KM:
1 Marco Pinotti (Ita) Team High Road 32.45 (52.213 km/h)
2 Tony Martin (Ger) Team High Road 0.07
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Team High Road 0.13
Given the fact Froome rode on a tricycle of 16 kilo in that TT it is perfectly normal he is now challenging Tony Martin.
 
We really need a wiki/database with all of SKYs legends, timelines, contradictions and spins. Even if there is no smoking gun, everybody but pigheads like Coggan or Allen would be able to understand and draw their own conclusions.
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Yes but don't you think that all this speculation on observed body shape changes, superlative performance analysis and freak show farce evaluations have a kind of unique entertainment value?
 
Oct 21, 2012
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Franklin said:
Having lost my very experienced uncle in the tropics due to disease I simply must disagree here. These things simply happen.

I'm no physiologist, but I'd tentatively agree here. My gut says the Bilharzia story can't be that important.
Sorry to hear about your uncle, but bilharzia is caught by swimming in water with infected snails, it isn't spread by mosquitos or something like that. Basic precautions like only swimming in salt water (or better yet, avoiding the water entirely) and boiling all water before drinking it would be enough to avoid bilharzia.

Regarding the bilharzia story, I was taking a look at the list of symptoms on wiki. It sounds devastating, a horrible disease, and Froome is supposed to have had it for at least 3 years (caught it before 2010, said he was still battling it in April 2012). The 'mild' symptoms sound bad enough, but it gets a whole lot worse if you've had 'continuing infection'. Does ~three years qualify for a continuing infection? If so, this is what the Dawg could have gone through:

-Rectal bleeding, potential to develop into cancer of the colon; with bloody diarrhoea.
-An increase in the blood pressure in the portal vein, which services the intestines and digestive system; vomiting of blood; enlargement of the spleen.
-Infection of the urinary tract and the ureter (the tubes which propel urine from the kidneys to the bladder) with blood in urine; which can progress to bladder cancer.
-An increase of blood pressure in the pulmonary artery, leading to shortness of breath, dizziness, fainting, leg swelling, decreased exercise tolerance, and heart failure.
-Inflammation of small vessels in the kidneys.

All of that sounds so bad, crippling, lethal. I would expect somebody with advanced bilharzia to be permanently bedridden, and I would be shocked if they could even ride a bike, let alone dominate the pro peloton.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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its just a coverup for his TUE'S and first we had a cancer winner, now we have the same story different disease.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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horsinabout said:
Yes but don't you think that all this speculation on observed body shape changes, superlative performance analysis and freak show farce evaluations have a kind of unique entertainment value?
great point horsin. i'm entertained are you? (generic)
 

EnacheV

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Jul 7, 2013
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Im always amazed when the new level of stupidity breaks the old unbelievable record :D

Replace Froome with 20-30 names of past proved dopers in the peleton and its still a stupidity.
 
Alphabet said:
Regarding the bilharzia story, I was taking a look at the list of symptoms on wiki. It sounds devastating, a horrible disease, and Froome is supposed to have had it for at least 3 years (caught it before 2010, said he was still battling it in April 2012).
Actually he still had it in January of this year and underwent treatment. Funny how he relapses during the off-season.
 
argyllflyer said:
Well according to Rob Hayles on Eurosport it was specifically designed to cope with the winds in that part of France for today's stage. He was standing there by the Sky bus with the bike in his hands and I assume that info came from someone with slightly more knowledge than you? The bike was angled apparently to be more aerodynamic in a particular type of crosswind.
UK Cycling Expert@ukcyclingexpert10 Jul

Looking forward to seeing the windproofed bikes today. Some of these bikes cost up to £600! You can't get them in your local Halfords!!!

UK Cycling Expert@ukcyclingexpert10 Jul

Sky's experts use a computer programme (like Paint) to design the most windproof bicycle then test it in front of giant fans!
 

EnacheV

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Jul 7, 2013
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Cycle Chic said:
UK Cycling Expert@ukcyclingexpert10 Jul

Looking forward to seeing the windproofed bikes today. Some of these bikes cost up to £600! You can't get them in your local Halfords!!!

UK Cycling Expert@ukcyclingexpert10 Jul

Sky's experts use a computer programme (like Paint) to design the most windproof bicycle then test it in front of giant fans!
now its not necessary to post all ridiculous tweets in this thread, twitter is full of clowns :rolleyes:
 

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