Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Ripper]

It's because it's all a huge red herring.

If anything, I'd bet it's good ole blood manipulation. Because contrary to what the public thinks, that's still undetectable.

I can't repeat that enough: Blood doping is still undetectable.

And to add ...

Let's say badzilla has been a chronic issue. If you take someone with Badzilla and cure the problem and utilize blood doping, I would expect said candidate would be a super responder.

BTW - what I am saying is total assumption-land. I get it, it does not even reach the level of being pseudo-science But I think it is an interesting hypothesis as to how Froome has transfroomed himself.

 

[EnacheV]

Dopers fatigue most likely.

contador fanboy detected
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1073062#post1073062

please go and tell us more about doped froome and unnatural specimen alberto

difference is that doper are caught doping. repeating many times a thing like froome is doping it doesn't make it true

 

[Ripper]

so thats what is really all about?

buthurt south-europeans about not being no1 ?

sport history is full of this type of cycles. a simple look a football ECL winners list should help anyone understand, for example.

You're just channeling 1-800-dumb-a$$ right now.

So EnacheV - are you overly patriotic or naive?

 

[EnacheV]

You're just channeling 1-800-dumb-a$$ right now.

So EnacheV - are you overly patriotic or naive?

no

i was being ironic about some poster angry about some "anglo-saxon" stuff

i'm a south-european too

 

[Ripper]

now its not necessary to post all ridiculous tweets in this thread, twitter is full of clowns

Are you referring to Michelle?

 

[No_Balls]

contador fanboy detected
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1073062#post1073062

Froome fanboy detected.

difference is that doper are caught doping. repeating many times a thing like froome is doping it doesn't make it true

Funny. In the case of Armstrong, which i have no doubt that you are trying to forget in this moment of time, this actually payed off.

 

[murali]

And now he's over it his body has gone into producing more red cells than anyone else over the history of ever

Is his body's recovery from Bilharzia giving him EPO-like top ups naturally ? Is Chris Froome's physiology the equivalent of Muralitharan's bowling arm ?!

murali is a freak of nature, having one of the greatest cricketing brain and a hand made by God for his bowling. Also, he stumbled everyone right from his younger age. You have scouts who are willing to vouch that murali is their find and coaches who proudly proclaim that they were lucky to have a student like murali. (and more importantly he shares my handle-name)

Just as Cerberus was pointing out, no rider is actively looking for getting infected with this parasite. I haven't heard of anyone improving endurance just by getting a disease. So, that means that such an infection is not going to give performance gains.

The question actually is: if his body is producing too much red blood cells, then why isn't any doping test catching it? At least he should have been caught once, where he gives this written explanation about the Bilharzia parasite.

Another worry is that, while he was affected with this disease, if his red blood cells were getting destroyed he should have been flagged by race doctors. Again, we never heard about him being disallowed from racing due to health constraints. So, is the new Bio passport faulty too?

 

[Ripper]

Well I'm not a doctor, but my general view is much as it was with Armstrong. Disease can kill you, disease can cripple you or, if you're lucky you'll make a perfect recovery. It cannot give you superpowers, this isn't a comic book.

More specifically the disease isn't that rare, if this was the one disease that actually gave you the proportional speed, strength and endurance of a bacteria (whatever that is) we'd have heard it from some doctor who knew it was the case, and we wouldn't have to speculate, expect about how many Tour riders and other athletes were going to deliberately infect themselves with the disease.

It is plausible that recovery from a disease state might set you up to be a super responder ...

 

[EnacheV]

Froome fanboy detected.

Funny. In the case of Armstrong, which i have no doubt that you are trying to forget in this moment of time, this actually payed off.

Saying this about all riders will surely be true few times. a 5% accuracy is not impressing me though

As for Froome fanboy , when i came in to this forum the only thing i knew about Froome is that was a domestique for Wiggins last year.

After reading all the pointless garbage throw at him i hope he puts 20 mins in to 2nd place, just to see guys like you explode

 

[Ripper]

contador fanboy detected
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1073062#post1073062

please go and tell us more about doped froome and unnatural specimen alberto

difference is that doper are caught doping. repeating many times a thing like froome is doping it doesn't make it true

Took some time to pop bertie. Did not happen right away.

Expect the same ...

 

[thehog]

murali is a freak of nature, having one of the greatest cricketing brain and a hand made by God for his bowling. Also, he stumbled everyone right from his younger age. You have scouts who are willing to vouch that murali is their find and coaches who proudly proclaim that they were lucky to have a student like murali. (and more importantly he shares my handle-name)

Just as Cerberus was pointing out, no rider is actively looking for getting infected with this parasite. I haven't heard of anyone improving endurance just by getting a disease. So, that means that such an infection is not going to give performance gains.

The question actually is: if his body is producing too much red blood cells, then why isn't any doping test catching it? At least he should have been caught once, where he gives this written explanation about the Bilharzia parasite.

Another worry is that, while he was affected with this disease, if his red blood cells were getting destroyed he should have been flagged by race doctors. Again, we never heard about him being disallowed from racing due to health constraints. So, is the new Bio passport faulty too?

What I find strange that if he had this disease during his "no results" period on reality he wouldn't be finishing GTs as he did. He wouldn't even be completing one day races. Surely if he felt as sick a you should be you'd be seeing a Doctor who would easily make the correlation. I just can't see how he had this thing for several years without knowing.

A tourist who's not a pro athlete would see a Doctor after a few days. Froome who's a pro athlete did not?

 

[No_Balls]

Saying this about all riders will surely be true few times. a 5% accuracy is not impressing me though

There are, of course, exceptions and i myself dont point out every rider out there. With Froome it is as obvious as it was with Lance (which i knew was a fraud back even in -98) though. He is probably even more obvious which i why this has turned out to a complete farce and a mockery against the downfall of Lance.

As for Froome fanboy , when i came in to this forum the only thing i knew about Froome is that was a domestique for Wiggins last year.

Ah, you became a fanboy because he is winning. No wonder you werent around until this year since Froome pushed sprinters earlier.

After reading all the pointless garbage throw at him i hope he puts 20 mins in to 2nd place, just to see guys like you explode

As you are a fanboy i can understand that reaction. As for cycling in general, and not just specific riders, this is very tragic.

 

[vrusimov]

Saying this about all riders will surely be true few times. a 5% accuracy is not impressing me though

As for Froome fanboy , when i came in to this forum the only thing i knew about Froome is that was a domestique for Wiggins last year.

After reading all the pointless garbage throw at him i hope he puts 20 mins in to 2nd place, just to see guys like you explode

Yep, and his career will explode right along with that result. I welcome it, although there will undoubtedly be individuals citing how plausible such a result can be and why the other cyclists have suddenly descended to amateur levels by comparison.

 

[martinvickers]

What you are actually saying is because science just doesn't know what is humanly possible you just don't know if someone is doping, and thus everyone is innocent until proven guilty?

Within reason, that's not far from the truth, Fearless Greg. It's certainly much harder to draw a straight line from borderline performance to doping than many of the regulars would like to accept. Hell, Vayer though lance was sometimes plausible!

and " innocent until proven guilty" strikes me as a pretty sensible position. sorry.

More fun to burn the witch, i know. she's the same weight as a duck, after all.

 

[thehog]

Within reason, that's not far from the truth, Fearless Greg. It's certainly much harder to draw a straight line from borderline performance to doping than many of the regulars would like to accept. Hell, Vayer though lance was sometimes plausible!

and " innocent untill proven guilty" strikes me as a pretty sensible position. sorry.

More fun to burn the witch, i know. she's the same weight as a duck, after all.

I think we might be burning the alien. Or the Dawg.

We take no pleasure in this. But if mainstream won't. We will.

 

[zastomito]

What you are actually saying is because science just doesnt know what is humanly possible you just dont know if somenone is doping, and thus everyone is innocent untill proven guilty?

Last line of defense. Nobody knows, so everything goes. New Sky mantra.

 

[vrusimov]

Within reason, that's not far from the truth, Fearless Greg. It's certainly much harder to draw a straight line from borderline performance to doping than many of the regulars would like to accept. Hell, Vayer though lance was sometimes plausible!

Can you imagine where the "new rung" for what is plausible would be if Armstrong had never been outed?

 

[Bumeington]

Froome's training peaks Vuelta TT 2011

http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/Z3JDD63H2UVGP77YSXNITPULAE

Not sure why no one has commented on the TSS in the top right corner: 86.

Surely 86 TSS for 94.5% of one hour means 91% of FTP so his FTP as programmed into the training peaks program is 445W (if TSS is related to average power) or 452W (if TSS is related to normalized power). His weight is clearly plugged in at 70kg as they say 5.8W/kg for the tt, so that means his FTP must be plugged in at 6.45W/kg?

Obviously what he's entered into training peaks doesn't have to be correct.

Also he's on Osymmetric rings so possibly times everything by 0.96

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

So, as has been pointed out, you have made this same argument for years. YEARS. You said it yourself, you've been here since Usenet making this same argument. You've tested this theory that it is impossible to extrapolate any significant or relevant hypothesis about a rider doping from estimated power data. It can always be explained by something else is your theory.

Two of those discussions from years past have been linked to here. In both of those, you are making the same claim, that being that with the information available, the people who are saying rider X doped are wrong for doing so because the available information does not allow that conclusion because the people making the claim of doping are not accounting for too many variables.

(you should be able to hypothesize where I'm going here)

Turns out that in both of the instances linked to....wait for it....the rider in question was DOPING. So your absolute rule that doping cannot be suggested from the information referred to in both discussions has been tested...and it failed. Verifiable fact.

There appear to be several other instances of this exact experiment being undertaken, and evidently, you haven't been too successful in promoting the "you guys can't predict doping from the available information" theory...because it keeps being proven wrong because these cyclists you are tacitly defending (like it or not, continuing to post defensive posts in threads about riders others are suggesting are doping means you are defending those riders. Hint: its the context; the words you post are irrelevant) keep getting busted for doping.

So you'll have to excuse us if we don't find your argument on this thread compelling (same old argument you've made numerous times), that being the current data being used to estimate Froome's power numbers is not sufficient to predict anything, much less doping. You've been wrong too many times in the past making the same argument.

EDIT: In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if I were looking for someone who was doping, I'd find a thread where you (Coggan) were making your "you can't say rider X is doping because I'm smarter than you" diatribe, and I'd say that the rider in question is much more likely than not to be doping. Like I said before, you're a weathervane that is thicker on the pointy end.

I think what he is saying is that you cannot prove someone is doping from performance figures alone and since Contador was done by a test and Basso by puerto those two examples do not disprove his position.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I think what he is saying is that you cannot prove someone is doping from performance figures alone and since Contador was done by a test and Basso by puerto those two examples do not disprove his position.

No, that's not what he's saying. He clearly signed onto what he is saying if you read the two posts I quoted in my response. He goes much further. And he has been wrong in making that argument several times.

When I test my theory "When Coggan shows up on a thread and chides everyone (in his typically egotistical manner) for suggesting a rider is doping because they are using estimates of power data to suggest that doping, the rider in question is likely doping," I find a lot of support for my theory.

 

[King Boonen]

I'm struggling to believe guys, someone help me out?

 

[the sceptic]

I'm struggling to believe guys, someone help me out?

passed over 500 tests, works and trains harder than anyone, high cadence, 6.5w/kg is the maximum human limit, seems like a nice guy, life threatening disease

 

[King Boonen]

passed over 500 tests, works and trains harder than anyone, high cadence, 6.5w/kg is the maximum human limit, seems like a nice guy, life threatening disease

Magic, thanks.

 

[Benotti69]

passed over 500 tests, works and trains harder than anyone, high cadence, 6.5w/kg is the maximum human limit, seems like a nice guy, life threatening disease

and he prefers blondes.

 

[blackcat]

and he prefers blondes.

do they look like his mom too?

oedipus rulz