Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[gooner]

Froome getting questioned on his performances today. He looks to had enough of it.

owenslotTheTimes ‏@owenslot 2m
Sport in self destruct mode here at the TdF. Press conf the morning after Froome's Ventoux spectacular, and 2/3rds of questions r re doping

owenslotTheTimes ‏@owenslot 1m
Brailsford: "its 10am, its a rest day and I am sitting here trying to defend a guy who's doing nothing wrong. "

Hanne D ‏@hanne_davis 25m
Froome tells the press he doesn't want to be compared to Lance Armstrong, because Armstrong cheated and he hasn't #tdf

Hanne D ‏@hanne_davis 16m
Brailsford tells the press that if they can think of a good way for Team Sky to prove they aren't doping, he's happy to help them do it.

Hanne D ‏@hanne_davis 14m
Froome "it's sad that were sat here after the biggest win of his career talking about doping & him being accused of being a cheat & a liar"

Ian Chadband ‏@IanChadTele 2m
Really emotional outburst from Froome this morning at Sky's rest day press conf, making it clear just how upset he is at the doping slurs

 

[Spider1964]

Great pictures for comparison. No full body shots. One where he's grinding he's teeth up a mountain, the other relaxed, while lifting a trophy. You do know people change when they get older...?

Of course the pictures does not look alike. At least have the decency to conjure up something which is worthwhile to compare in the first place.


Anyways... Hope Froomalien will be caught soon. Either that or his peers should step up their game. Nothing as bad as seeing a one-sided show.

Hey Einstein... compare both pictures to the many thousands available on this very site. I'm quite obviously NOT comparing the two I posted to each other. FFS.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Only extreme fanboism or patriotism can prevent any one from beinng extremely suspicious about what we have seen from Froome in this Tour

The situation is no different than when Armstrong or Contador annihilated the competition.

Many fans like dominance and a circus show.

 

[sprenten]

Froome was more than 2 minutes faster than predicted by pvam and 10 seconds faster than dpvam at the end of a 240 km stage ridden faster than the fastest predicted avg speed.

There's no set-in-stone, magical limit (6 W/kg) that can be applied to any performance. Why is it so f-in hard for people to put an estimated W/kg in context? You see this in the replies to vetooo's estimates. 6.1 for 20 minutes at low altitude? "Incredible!" 5.9 for 50 minutes on the Ventoux? "Below 6, not suspicious at all!"

Unbelievable!

We have disagreed, I won't go as far as saying Froome is an outright doper. I thought he'd be at 5.8 on this stage. However, we are at the end of week 2 and I see two guys I can flag with high suspicion of doping. Froome is one and Quintana is the other, but Quintana's red flags are looking more believe. I think Contador's improvement is suspicious now as well and I think it will be telling on the next couple of stages in how he performs as fitness gained in a race can't last long clean (short peak), but Froome is definiately pushing the boundaries of a rested peak, 2 weeks into racing.

Vetoo's 6.65k to finish estimation of 6.0 W/kg is almost otherwordly. Ross Tucker has not put out his full analysis, but I think Ross and I are going to diverge on opinion. I probably could have accepted a 5.9 if it was raced a little differently today, going from a 6.1 W/kg to 5.7 W/kg over the course of the race grinding down your competition and not the reverse of going 5.8 W/kg then upping that wattage as you gain altitude and partial pressure of O2 decreases makes no physiological sense. Yeah Froome is going to get tested, but something has to give as you gain altitude and your body begins to breakdown from fatigue day after day. Which means to have created these adaptations they had to spend training time dedicated to pushing out similar wattages at altitude, EPO and tranfusions still need a stimulus to create the adaptations at the system, organ, and cellular levels to make these performances possible.

In a clean athlete that requires following normal fitness-fatigue curves, in a doped athlete it alters the fitness-fatigue curves as the adaptations are slower to evolve and either you stayed pumped full of blood every 3-4 weeks or you microdose with minimal transfusion amounts. There is actually nothing about Sky's performances up till the TdF which has raised a red flag in my eyes. Right now Froome is pushing the boundaries of fitness-fatigue models. Dr. Tucker sees high variability as a sign of doping and it is in cases where you go from 1500 VAM to 1700 VAM on similar climbs in a 20 day window is high variability (something Froome has not done).

The problem for the stage racing cyclist is altitude and creating power at altitude without suffering in races at sea level, because your training power output at altitude is reduced with the additional stress of altitude placed on the physiological systems. You don't go from 430ish watts for 25 minutes down to only 410ish watts for 50 minutes with the last 6+k around 415 watts when that last 6k was all done at a higher altitude than what you did your 25 minute 430 watt avg effort at of which he was around 6.0 W/kg for the last 1K to the KOM at Bonascre. I expected 5.8 and the near 6.0 W/kg effort suggests he has not lost fitness but gained it possibly and that's just downright silly 15 stages into a race unless Froome peaked absolutely perfectly which means race speeds, wind, etc... had to be perfect for Sky to achieve this result.

 

[Pulpstar]

As the DS of Netapp Endura (I think ?) said on the British Eurosport sofa I think Sky need to release their data.

Ok So they will lose some competitive advantage but it's neccesary at this point I think.

 

[Cimber]

The situation is no different than when Armstrong or Contador annihilated the competition.

Many fans like dominance and a circus show.

Does the fact that others did the same make it ok for Froome?

 

[LaFlorecita]

What a clown this guy is. As fake as one can get. The sooner he gets caught the better.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Does the fact that others did the same make it ok for Froome?

Of course not.

But I see no difference between fans backing Contador vs fans backing Froome.

 

[Mr.38%]

Froome career pics by Hennes Roth

Decent Position even in 2008 and 2009. Bad Equipment? Not really.

 

[Cimber]

Of course not.

But I see no difference between fans backing Contador vs fans backing Froome.

So we agree that only fanboism and/or patriotism can explain if some people dont find Froome highly suspicious.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So we agree that only fanboism and/or patriotism can explain if some people dont find Froome highly suspicious.

we agree:

Even level playing field doesn't preclude doping, but dominant individual performances in a non niche sport like cycling is a clean indication of doping.

 

[ebandit]

spec..savers

Yep I was thinking the same thing....this performance had Rasmussen all over it. I actually want Froome to win, but it is kind of hard to defend froome when he is looking like pantani on that climb.

shoulda gone to spec-savers!

looking like pantani.....................you think?

has there ever been a rider like froomey spinning sitting down at 200 rpm

other when my chain just snapped?

Mark L

 

[Carstenbf]

Brailsford tells the press that if they can think of a good way for Team Sky to prove they aren't doping, he's happy to help them do it.

Show us the data!!

 

[vrusimov]

We have disagreed, I won't go as far as saying Froome is an outright doper. I thought he'd be at 5.8 on this stage. However, we are at the end of week 2 and I see two guys I can flag with high suspicion of doping. Froome is one and Quintana is the other, but Quintana's red flags are looking more believe. I think Contador's improvement is suspicious now as well and I think it will be telling on the next couple of stages in how he performs as fitness gained in a race can't last long clean (short peak), but Froome is definiately pushing the boundaries of a rested peak, 2 weeks into racing.

Vetoo's 6.65k to finish estimation of 6.0 W/kg is almost otherwordly. Ross Tucker has not put out his full analysis, but I think Ross and I are going to diverge on opinion. I probably could have accepted a 5.9 if it was raced a little differently today, going from a 6.1 W/kg to 5.7 W/kg over the course of the race grinding down your competition and not the reverse of going 5.8 W/kg then upping that wattage as you gain altitude and partial pressure of O2 decreases makes no physiological sense. Yeah Froome is going to get tested, but something has to give as you gain altitude and your body begins to breakdown from fatigue day after day. Which means to have created these adaptations they had to spend training time dedicated to pushing out similar wattages at altitude, EPO and tranfusions still need a stimulus to create the adaptations at the system, organ, and cellular levels to make these performances possible.

In a clean athlete that requires following normal fitness-fatigue curves, in a doped athlete it alters the fitness-fatigue curves as the adaptations are slower to evolve and either you stayed pumped full of blood every 3-4 weeks or you microdose with minimal transfusion amounts. There is actually nothing about Sky's performances up till the TdF which has raised a red flag in my eyes. Right now Froome is pushing the boundaries of fitness-fatigue models. Dr. Tucker sees high variability as a sign of doping and it is in cases where you go from 1500 VAM to 1700 VAM on similar climbs in a 20 day window is high variability (something Froome has not done).

The problem for the stage racing cyclist is altitude and creating power at altitude without suffering in races at sea level, because your training power output at altitude is reduced with the additional stress of altitude placed on the physiological systems. You don't go from 430ish watts for 25 minutes down to only 410ish watts for 50 minutes with the last 6+k around 415 watts when that last 6k was all done at a higher altitude than what you did your 25 minute 430 watt avg effort at of which he was around 6.0 W/kg for the last 1K to the KOM at Bonascre. I expected 5.8 and the near 6.0 W/kg effort suggests he has not lost fitness but gained it possibly and that's just downright silly 15 stages into a race unless Froome peaked absolutely perfectly which means race speeds, wind, etc... had to be perfect for Sky to achieve this result.

Well the toughest moments of this tour have yet to occur but I'm willing to bet that he will remain around 4.5% above pVAM. Judging by the amount of time he put into Quintana over 1.3 km, I would say that he is still sitting on some capability. The thing of it is, he does not need to call unnecessary attention to himself like he is doing but it seems he can't help himself. He has not weakened since AX3 when looking at the numbers.

 

[Ferminal]

I doubt it. The race is won, if he wants to win Alpe d'Huez he will just cover moves and attack with 1-2km left. No more long maximal efforts.

 

[Benotti69]

Show us the data!!

Not going to happen. as plenty of fanboys in here state. Cant prove a negative.

Releasing the data is not going to prove anything.

Beating known dopers times tell us all we need to know.

I would like to see Brailsford promise that he will take samples once a week to be held in storage for later testing.

 

[zalacain]

Why aren't they giving these special drugs to the rest of the team? Why only Froome? This last week the team could have really done with whatever it is Froome is supposed to be taking.

It wasn't their lack of power. It was the lack of tactical awareness that cost them.
When they do well it is because their team tempo riding sets up Froome. If Porte or Kennaugh were sitting at the back of the train we would probably see the same thing

 

[MatParker117]

Not going to happen. as plenty of fanboys in here state. Cant prove a negative.

Releasing the data is not going to prove anything.

Beating known dopers times tell us all we need to know.

I would like to see Brailsford promise that he will take samples once a week to be held in storage for later testing.

Sky actually do have an internal testing program. They also don't sign a rider without looking at his bio-passport and have passed on at least two riders due to dodgy data.

 

[gooner]

Not going to happen. as plenty of fanboys in here state. Cant prove a negative.

Releasing the data is not going to prove anything.

Beating known dopers times tell us all we need to know.

I would like to see Brailsford promise that he will take samples once a week to be held in storage for later testing.

Brailsford just said WADA could appoint an expert and they can look all their data.

Let's see will it be lived up to.

edit:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/chr...ed-im-not-cheating-end-of-story-29420449.html

 

[GuyIncognito]

Sky actually do have an internal testing program. They also don't sign a rider without looking at his bio-passport and have passed on at least two riders due to dodgy data.

Sky's signings for the following season and their rating on the blood passport list

Christian Knees - 6
Michael Rogers - 7
Kanstantsin Siutsou - 8

From five upwards, the comments associated to the rider files started to become much more precise, "even affirmative"

From six to ten, the circumstantial evidence of possible doping was "overwhelming"

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Before the Vuelta they offered him a new contract for £100k. Froome's agent(not sure if it's the same one now) wanted to wait to see if there were any better offers. I believe that Lampre were one team that was interested in Froome, pre-Vuelta 2011 not sure if there were any others.

Actually the Froome had 3 offers pre - Vuelta. One from Sky for 100.000 I assume British Pounds, one from Cofidis and one from Garmin.

The Froomster did not dissappoint me yesterday. It was a nice show. Team Sky even had the time uphill to take a nice lunchbag, shortly after Kennaugh and Porter upped the tempo. That softpedalling the first five kilometres did wonders for the time.

This I particulary loved:

Eye for detail, yep, thats the Sky way.

Just to quote someone:
"If Armstrong's clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if he's not, then it's the greatest fraud."

Cycling is comedy capers.

The absolute winner from yesterday was this man:

Froome just had a private taillwind yesterday, where guys like Ten Dam noticed a headwind from the moment they left the forest.

Edit: I found this tweet by Walsh interesting:
David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 19u
Quintana and Nieve lead by 15 to Porte, Froome and Contador, epic stage. Waiting for Froome. He has. Got rid of Contador. Can't help himself

Maybe I read something there or I just misinterpreted it.

Hats of to Team Sky, resurrection Joe's.

 

[Opalius]

compare both pictures to the many thousands available on this very site.

I did. I don't think he looks that much different. To be honest I don't think he was in a particular worse shape during the Barlo-years, than he is now.

Anyways... As the rest of this forum I doubt that it is his physique (visible change or not) that has helped him become the best climber, and the second best tt (third if Wiggins resurfaces) in the world

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

riccardo riccò ‏@riccardo_ricco 3u
Finalmente il ciclismo ha trovato un corridore pulito che batte tutti i record di corridori dopati!!!

 

[Eshnar]

riccardo riccò ‏@riccardo_ricco 3u
Finalmente il ciclismo ha trovato un corridore pulito che batte tutti i record di corridori dopati!!!

(+10c)

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Jens_A will be crushed.