Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[vrusimov]

But, after reading through 50+ pages of posts in this thread I don't think I've noticed a single person change their mind. Which essentially means that those 50+ pages are somewhat a waste of time and energy (both to read and write).

Why torture yourself? What has Froome done to allay suspicion and cause detractors to reconsider? If anything, his performances get more suspicious as the tour goes on. Now two doping level performances. Only someone synaptically challenged could possible suspend disbelief when Froome continues to ride uphill in times comparable to known dopers. But I know, he had a tailwind each time. This guy is on pace to a margin of victory not seen since Fignon in 1984.

It seems to me, now that Armstrong has fallen, everyone wants to close up shop and pretend it will be all rainbows and unicorns from henceforth. It is a sham. Utterly disappointing is Lemond's embrace of a guy woefully thin on palmares, muscles, bike handling skills, and a history that foretells of his current capacities. Everyone has the "lets move on from Armstrong" attitude, but I can tell you this, his name will live in infamy in regards to future Tours. Seven years of mountain-top dominance will serve as the doping standard for all future performances. Call it a catch-22.

 

[The_Juan]

Why will it subside?

How many times can you ask the same question?

 

[Logic Al]

I'm aware he offered it. I just find it funny that he then went on a little rant about it regardless.

Guilty or not, must be annoying getting asked the same questions over and over again

 

[Raiko200]

Whats fun and enjoyable about that?

Well, that's my point. It's seems to be that way in everything. Sports, business, politics. I don't think it's going to change. Do you?

My best friend in high school didn't make it out of the minors as a pitcher. But, others I know did and they weren't using steroids. You can either hit or you can't. If you can't then steroids aren't going to help much.

It is sad that those that are clean tend not to make it to the top in whatever endeavor they are participating in. So, what should I tell my 9 year old nephew? If you cheat you can become successful at whatever you want. Don't cheat and you can become whatever you want as well...but you'll always just be mediocre.

When he gets motivated by watching an athlete such as Froome or a successful business person should I slap him a couple times and tell him it's all fiction and they all cheat so quit watching? I'm not sure.

You're right. I do like fiction. Especially science fiction. Maybe that's why I have the perspective I do. Maybe I should start watching "reality" TV instead.

 

[spetsa]

And now Sky have Walsh in this year

Whether it's Kimmage or Walsh though, would them being around Sky really change anybody's mind either way?

It isn't really about Walsh or Kimmage or the next in line, it is about the promised transparency in general, and yes it would change people's minds. Which way it would change them is up for debate though.

 

[red_flanders]

And if they did that you'd believe they were clean?

If someone was independently verifying the rider and bike weights and getting live streams of the data, I would believe the data. What the data said would point my opinion in one direction or another.

Over time we'd have a set of detailed comparisons between riders. We'd still never "know" who was doped unless they were caught or admitted it, but we'd have some real data to talk about.

I don't see how them releasing data at this point would lead to anything but a bunch of questions on the validity and meaning of the data. But they should do it, yes. They claimed they would. Otherwise it's Caitlin all over again.

 

[Logic Al]

How many times can you ask the same question?

2 years so far since the Vuelta, and if anything getting asked a lot more now!

 

[spetsa]

If someone was independently verifying the rider and bike weights and getting live streams of the data, I would believe the data. What the data said would point my opinion in one direction or another.

Over time we'd have a set of detailed comparisons between riders. We'd still never "know" who was doped unless they were caught or admitted it, but we'd have some real data to talk about.

I don't see how them releasing data at this point would lead to anything but a bunch of questions on the validity and meaning of the data. But they should do it, yes. They claimed they would. Otherwise it's Caitlin all over again.

Otherwise? I think that they have already achieved that designation.

 

[The_Juan]

How many here believe that there has been knowledge exchanged between (what used to be) US Postal and Sky? Their ways are so eerily similar it leads me to believe they've talked and, in some cases, trained people at Sky. The way they ride, their tactics, etc?

It's beginning to look and sound like a leaner and meaner US Postal v2.0.

 

[red_flanders]

Otherwise? I think that they have already achieved that designation.

No argument from me.

 

[Logic Al]

If someone was independently verifying the rider and bike weights and getting live streams of the data, I would believe the data. What the data said would point my opinion in one direction or another.

Over time we'd have a set of detailed comparisons between riders. We'd still never "know" who was doped unless they were caught or admitted it, but we'd have some real data to talk about.

I don't see how them releasing data at this point would lead to anything but a bunch of questions on the validity and meaning of the data. But they should do it, yes. They claimed they would. Otherwise it's Caitlin all over again.

It's up to WADA to respond really, if they took up Brailsford's offer, and came back saying he was clean, would you believe that?

Can understand why it's not released to the public, would just be internet experts picking out certain parts of it to prove whether he was guilty/innocent in accordance to their pre-conceived opinion

 

[ChewbaccaD]

You must be one of the elders in this village so I'm afraid I didn't get what you're saying.

And you appear to be from a tribe that worships a statue of 3 monkeys in various states of sensory denial.

 

[spetsa]

How many here believe that there has been knowledge exchanged between (what used to be) US Postal and Sky? Their ways are so eerily similar it leads me to believe they've talked and, in some cases, trained people at Sky. The way they ride, their tactics, etc?

It's beginning to look and sound like a leaner and meaner US Postal v2.0.

Sean Yates, Bobby Julich...etc. Nah, no chance that could have happened. :rolleyes

 

[murali]

I'm aware he offered it. I just find it funny that he then went on a little rant about it regardless.

thats what proves to me that he is not really serious about his own suggestion. He will never give data to anyone. If estimates posted in this thread show alien performance, then think what the real data will show.

He is using the debate tactic of saying what his opponents would like to hear, so that he doesn't have to answer legitimate issues.

Whether Sky is caught doping or not, this man deserves respect. Damn good at PR.

 

[Logic Al]

thats what proves to me that he is not really serious about his own suggestion. He will never give data to anyone. If estimates posted in this thread show alien performance, then think what the real data will show.

He is using the debate tactic of saying what his opponents would like to hear, so that he doesn't have to answer legitimate issues.

Whether Sky is caught doping or not, this man deserves respect. Damn good at PR.

Then why doesn't someone call his bluff? He's left himself pretty open there

Wouldn't take much for a group of journalists to get together and come up with some 'demands' to prove his innocence

 

[spetsa]

Does the TdF release pre-tour medical check data? Vitals such as weight?

 

[McLovin]

And you appear to be from a tribe that worships a statue of 3 monkeys in various states of sensory denial.

You just confirm what I said. Sans arguments all the way! And who I worship? I said before that my favorite rider is Mick Rogers. Don't know why, just like him. Are you implying that I worship Mick Rogers?
(sorry for offtopic)

 

[spetsa]

Then why doesn't someone call his bluff? He's left himself pretty open there

Wouldn't take much for a group of journalists to get together and come up with some 'demands' to prove his innocence

Very true, but the past will show us that the journos are not the most trustworthy bunch in themselves. Don't think that they have changed much as a whole.

 

[red_flanders]

And you appear to be from a tribe that worships a statue of 3 monkeys in various states of sensory denial.

Hey all, I'm not going to warn repeat offenders anymore about personal attacks. You've heard the message. Keep at it and vacations will ensue. No expiration date.

Time to change the tune or you'll be posting somewhere else.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I thought the Froome poll thread posted this morning was interesting, not only for the poll, but also for the focused discussion.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=21162

I, for one, am disappointed that it was closed (because "we already have a Froome thread" - this one).

Who is served by such thread closings?

 

[The Hitch]

Full transcript of the interview from this morning http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/chris-froome-sad-tour-de-france?CMP=twt_gu

this bit is interesting from Brailsford:



Seems a fair challenge from Brailsford?

He is pretending to be anti doping yet for the last few years him and wiggo have treated the anti doping lobby like children, who you can insult and lie to comfortable in the knowledge that they don't have the power to respond.

 

[hrotha]

Who is served by such thread closings?

All of us.

We don't need every single thread to be about Sky.

 

[D-Queued]

Froome 2nd fastest for last 15k of Ventoux

MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)

----TOP 50 LIST

-1. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Chris Froome _________ GBR | 48:35 | 2013
-3. Andy Schleck _________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-4. Alberto Contador _____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-5. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-6. Marco Pantani ________ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-8. Frank Schleck ________ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-9. Nairo Quintana _______ COL | 49:04 | 2013
10. Roman Kreuziger ______ CZE | 49:05 | 2009

11. Franco Pellizotti ____ ITA | 49:15 | 2009
12. Vincenzo Nibali ______ ITA | 49:17 | 2009
13. Bradley Wiggins ______ GBR | 49:22 | 2009
14. Joseba Beloki ________ ESP | 49:26 | 2000
15. Jan Ullrich __________ GER | 49:30 | 2000
16. Raimondas Rumsas _____ LTU | 49:49 | 2002
17. Roberto Heras ________ ESP | 49:49 | 2000
18. Ivan Basso ___________ ITA | 49:52 | 2002
19. Mikel Nieve __________ ESP | 49:58 | 2013
20. Joaquim Rodriguez ____ ESP | 49:58 | 2013

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2061073#post2061073

There has been a lot of discussion about Contador's performance now that he is a vegetarian, but what about the difference in Schleckette's performance? He almost fell off his bike he was riding so slowly.

Is this what a clean Andy looks like?

Dave.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

From http://www.cycleboredom.com

Freaking HILARIOUS!

 

[Frank Tuesday]

You're right. Oh, except for the visual evidence from http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1301063&postcount=5483

What that pic doesn't show is what direction the riders were travelling at that moment. At the top, the image shows 5.4km remaining in the stage.

Using gmap pedometer I measured back from the finish to find out where on the mountain the riders were at 5.4km to go, and more importantly, what direction they were heading at the time.

A little closer look: