Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LesDiablesRouges]

Ah, ok, I think I see the argument beng made now. It's about using VO2max as a possible doping indicator. I though the argument made was that a high VO-max somehow could have explained Froome, which confused me.


You realize that VOmax is only one factor in endurance sports, not the whole picture, right? When your model starts to predict Lemond (or anybody) could have knocked more than 10 minutes of the Marothon world record, you should conclude that your model is horribly, horribly wrong.

I know it's only a factor I should have qualified my example of what VO2 max could potentially mean. The time reduction was used to explain what could be theoretically possible if Haile Gebralaisse or someone similar had a VO2 max of 92.5 as opposed to their estimated 83 VO2 max.

VO2 is only a portion of the complex mechanics of the human body.

 

[Cyivel]

Didn't Team Gadret in the last couple of days mention that no one likes Sky in the peloton?

Also was it Froomstrong that 'tweeted' or his rather annoying girlfriend/wife?

Don't know but as someone pointed out on twitter, he tweeted during a stage recently so...

I remember at the time I thought it must be MC but didn't recall it until I saw someone just mentioned it.

MC says it wasn't her doing the tweeting today ftr.

 

[thirteen]

Don't know but as someone pointed out on twitter, he tweeted during a stage recently so...

I remember at the time I thought it must be MC but didn't recall it until I saw someone just mentioned it.

MC says it wasn't her doing the tweeting today ftr.

he was spouting the same nonsense in post-race interviews, so i really do think it was him.

 

[mudbone]

Just done a timeline of Froome's Bilharzia condition from quotes in various interviews (dated). Didn't find any real inconsistencies in them (not all quoted here), although it seems he went nine months, instead of the six mentioned, before his last check up. Using the bi-annual check-up meter he should be due one now


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

 

[happychappy]

Chris Froome has blocked me on twitter

Join the club

 

[gooner]

The odds on the forum crashing again tomorrow?

 

[BYOP88]

Just done a timeline of Froome's Bilharzia condition from quotes in various interviews (dated). Didn't find any real inconsistencies in them (not all quoted here), although it seems he went nine months, instead of the six mentioned, before his last check up. Using the bi-annual check-up meter he should be due one now


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

Shouldn't that mean he needs some more Biltricide very soon?

 

[martinvickers]

The odds on the forum crashing again tomorrow?

Approaching 1.0 I would imagine.

 

[thirteen]

The odds on the forum crashing again tomorrow?

no no no no no! don't say that!!! have to pick up the in-laws in Amsterdam and will miss both tomorrow and Thursday

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The odds on the forum crashing again tomorrow?

The whole f*&king intertubes is going to crash on Thursday...

 

[JimmyFingers]

Best thread ever

 

[the sceptic]

no no no no no! don't say that!!! have to pick up the in-laws in Amsterdam and will miss both tomorrow and Thursday

the worst part about Froome going full alien was not being able to read people laughing about it here

The last ITT didnt break the forum though so i think it will be ok tomorrow unless something spectacular happens

 

[Benotti69]

Well if he drops everyone on D'huez it will be really rubbing everyone's face in it and some journos out there will take up the challenge to be the next Walsh and get all the kudos that Walsh appears to be living off and not realising he is losing it fast with his SKy loves fest on twitter.

 

[victorschipolrijk]

Just done a timeline of Froome's Bilharzia condition from quotes in various interviews (dated). Didn't find any real inconsistencies in them (not all quoted here), although it seems he went nine months, instead of the six mentioned, before his last check up. Using the bi-annual check-up meter he should be due one now


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

Bilharzia , also known as Schistosomiasis

Common treatment for Schistosomiasis :

If you are diagnosed with schistosomiasis, you will probably be admitted to hospital so that your health can be carefully monitored. This will help ensure that any serious complications you have, such as dehydration, are picked up.
The medication used to treat schistosomiasis is called praziquantel. Praziquantel works by first paralysing the worms and then dissolving their outer casing, killing them. A single dose of praziquantel is usually required.
The side effects of praziquantel are usually mild and include:
nausea
vomiting
abdominal pain
Steroid medication (corticosteroids) can also be used to relieve the symptoms of acute schistosomiasis as they help control the allergic reaction to the eggs that is responsible for the symptoms.
A further stool sample may be taken after four to six weeks to check whether there are still any eggs in your stools. If eggs are present, a further dose of praziquantel may be given

Steroid medication
Usually it takes one treatment to get rid of this sickness , but apparently Froome is doing it time and again , and with that excuse he can get a TUE for the corticoids , very clever !!!!!!

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/schistosomiasis/Pages/Treatment.aspx

 

[Benotti69]

Kimmage from newstalk interview tonight.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podca..._Highlights/27339/2/paul_kimmages_tour_report

 

[northstar]

Just done a timeline of Froome's Bilharzia condition from quotes in various interviews (dated). Didn't find any real inconsistencies in them (not all quoted here), although it seems he went nine months, instead of the six mentioned, before his last check up. Using the bi-annual check-up meter he should be due one now


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

Froome also had a treatment of praziquantel in June 2011 after Tour de Suisse. So that makes at least four known treatments.

Dec 2010 – at time of original diagnosis
June 2011 - after Tour de Suisse
April 2012 - after Criterium Int’l
January 2013 - before Majorca training camp

This Velonews article today says he has bi-annual check ups and treatments. Not sure if they are referring to both check ups and treatments every 6 months or just check ups.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/froome-confirms-no-tue-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548

Interesting to note that 2-3 months after his treatments Froome had some spectacular race results: treatment in June and then 2nd at Vuelta 2011, treatment in April and then 2nd TdF 2012, treatment in January and then 1st Criterium Int’l, ToR, Dauphine, ‘TdF’ 2013. Of course, this could all just be a co-incidence.

Personally, I think he is mildly infected with the parasites and the bilharzia has not hampered him much at all. According to Froome, he felt ‘tired, had coughs and colds, nothing serious’ pre-diagnosis. Doesn't sound that dehabilitating. The bilharzia is just a convenient excuse to explain his lack of development/results in the past.

 

[the sceptic]

Best thread ever

good post jimmy

what do you think about Froome now?

 

[thirteen]

the worst part about Froome going full alien was not being able to read people laughing about it here

The last ITT didnt break the forum though so i think it will be ok tomorrow unless something spectacular happens

so i am hoping.

luckily, i'll be able to get sporadic internet in the car on Thursday (see below) once we cross the border back to Belgium.

I'm recording everything, but it just won't be the same without being able to read all the comments whilst i'm stifling my screams.

The whole f*&king intertubes is going to crash on Thursday...

 

[jamesmasters]

Here's a conspiracy theory about the bilharzia.

Froome says the following in an interview posted earlier on this thread:

At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”

In other words, despite having been ‘not great’ all year, he didn’t seek medical treatment. He just randomly asked the UCI blood passport doctors to double up as his GPs and they diagnosed his bilharzia.

Isn’t this a little bit odd? If you’re a member of a rich cycling team and you’ve been feeling sub-par for a year, wouldn’t you mention it to the team doctors at some point?

In extreme ‘conspiracy nut’ mode, could this be taken as evidence that he wanted the UCI doctors to be the ones to diagnose his bilharzia, so they wouldn't suspect that it is somehow being used to get round the blood passport system?

 

[patswana]

Froome also had a treatment of praziquantel in June 2011 after Tour de Suisse. So that makes at least four known treatments.

Dec 2010 – at time of original diagnosis
June 2011 - after Tour de Suisse
April 2012 - after Criterium Int’l
January 2013 - before Majorca training camp

This Velonews article today says he has bi-annual check ups and treatments. Not sure if they are referring to both check ups and treatments every 6 months or just check ups.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/froome-confirms-no-tue-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548

Interesting to note that 2-3 months after his treatments Froome had some spectacular race results: treatment in June and then 2nd at Vuelta 2011, treatment in April and then 2nd TdF 2012, treatment in January and then 1st Criterium Int’l, ToR, Dauphine, ‘TdF’ 2013. Of course, this could all just be a co-incidence.

Personally, I think he is mildly infected with the parasites and the bilharzia has not hampered him much at all. According to Froome, he felt ‘tired, had coughs and colds, nothing serious’ pre-diagnosis. Doesn't sound that dehabilitating. The bilharzia is just a convenient excuse to explain his lack of development/results in the past.

Look up the treatment of bilhazia - it's just a single dose of praziquantel. Some species of Schistosomes require a second dose on the same day, but most just need one. I would guess that a few East African olympic middle/long distance running champions had it without any concerns on their performance. This is a red herring!

 

[Stradebianche]

Here's a conspiracy theory about the bilharzia.

Froome says the following in an interview posted earlier on this thread:

At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”

In other words, despite having been ‘not great’ all year, he didn’t seek medical treatment. He just randomly asked the UCI blood passport doctors to double up as his GPs and they diagnosed his bilharzia.

Isn’t this a little bit odd? If you’re a member of a rich cycling team and you’ve been feeling sub-par for a year, wouldn’t you mention it to the team doctors at some point?

In extreme ‘conspiracy nut’ mode, could this be taken as evidence that he wanted the UCI doctors to be the ones to diagnose his bilharzia, so they wouldn't suspect that it is somehow being used to get round the blood passport system?

Does seem odd he would have it for a year undiagnosed,i would have thought the longer it goes untreated the worse the symptoms.
Also odd we keep hearing the treatment is a one shot cure and yet..

"Brailsford said team doctors continue to monitor Froome for bilharzia because it’s difficult to completely eradicate.

“It’s not something that just disappears. It’s a parasite. It lays eggs. They might be dormant, then the eggs hatch, then they lay more eggs,” Brailsford said. “You have to stay on top of it, be vigilant, that’s why he keeps having treatments so it’s completely eradicated over time.”

 

[Benotti69]

I can foresee Walsh's article on Sunday explaining that Froome has this blood disease and the treatment is steroids to make him 'normal'.....with a huge heart, highest ever Vo2max, high cadence, will to win, trains harder than everyone else, diet, etc

 

[mudbone]

Froome also had a treatment of praziquantel in June 2011 after Tour de Suisse. So that makes at least four known treatments.

didn't find that. could you post a link?

Look up the treatment of bilhazia - it's just a single dose of praziquantel. Some species of Schistosomes require a second dose on the same day, but most just need one.

I believe it is more usually around a week's course of Biltricide tablets (although Froome said he took it for two weeks in Mar/Apr 12 for eg) to enable the parasites to be digested by the body.

Also, corticosteroids can be recommended to alleviate the side-effects of the digestion when severe.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

vo2max goes up as weight goes down if all else stays the same

relative VO2max goes up as weight goes down.

ie 77ml/kg/min, as a unit of measurement, clearly has the weight (kg) as the denominator.

 

[bewildered]

Just done a timeline of Froome's Bilharzia condition from quotes in various interviews (dated). Didn't find any real inconsistencies in them (not all quoted here), although it seems he went nine months, instead of the six mentioned, before his last check up. Using the bi-annual check-up meter he should be due one now


2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)
"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up (and inferred Treatment)

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

Good post. Sorry for quoting it yet again but would it be possible to add in the approximate dates when CF's contract renewal was in the balance, when it was eventually renewed, when Leinders joined Sky and when his results started improving dramatically? I think that might be interesting

I'm sure others on here could find the relevant links quicker than I could. Thanks