Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[pmcg76]

My point is that there was an evolution of professionalization and scientification of training methods starting maybe somewhere in the late 80s but reaching the whole peloton during the 90s (and still continuing in the 00s). Or in other words: there is a big difference between the training habits and methods of the peloton of 1990 and the peloton of 2013.
So I'm not talking about Armstrong whatsoever. When I said 1990, some people thought I was talking about Armstrong and Ulrich, don't ask me why.



Ah, at least someone agrees with me. I'm only talking about 80s guys to show that it was actually possible to gain a lot from better training methods. So maybe, just maybe, it could be possible today too.

No I don't agree with you. Yes, I believe that cycling was totally clueless to modern training techniques in comparison to other sports in the 80s but they caught up rapidly in the 90s. Are you suggesting that somewhere in the last 10 years that cycling has fallen behind again so much that it would take someone from another sport to bring training methods forward again and thus mark all those who have been coaching cyclists during that time period as pure idiots. Sorry but I do not buy that.

Regardless of training methods, only someone with a huge amount of talent would benefit from such methods to obtain the level at which Froome now operates which brings us back to that old nugget. If Froome has that level of talent, he should have shown up much earlier than when he did, parasite or not. He did not so the question is back to how he kept his talent hidden so well for so long??

If SKY had power files from before his transformation that showed he could perform like he did the last few years but was unable to produce it in races then I would be far more willing to believe in Froome. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Boeing]

on the subject of nutrition I must say that i bought a vitamix blender and create 3 green shakes a day. energy is more sustained and endurance, feel better hydration.

although brailsford endorses the Montel Williams version I hear

 

[simo1733]

So if EBH becomes a GC contender everything is ok because of his epic lab results?

 

[thehog]

Sports science is doping.

It's not like doping is some backward technique conducted in side streets.

Doping exists due to science.

Once scientists realised that could delay lactic acid and improve recovery then doping became science and sports science became doping.

 

[Ripper]

A W E S O M E

 

[thehog]

Chris Froome traveled to Tuscany this week to secretly study the hilly course of the world road race championships in Florence. The Tour de France winner confirmed that the world title is a goal for the end of season and he will ride the USA Procycling Challenge in Colorado (August 19-25) to prepare for the end of season.

Secretly in front of the worlds media?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-studies-the-florence-world-championship-course

 

[hfer07]

So you believe that in 2011, Sky chose a random -possibly very mediocre- rider to turn into a world class GT rider, namely Froome. Put him on a magical doping program. Et voila.

This somehow strikes you as more likely than that Froome really is a very talented rider, who profits from the professional environment at Sky, just as many other riders there do. This of course doesn't mean that they all have the same level, as there are many different types of riders, and some are more talented than others, and some work harder than others, and some had more to gain than others, etc. So maybe there is a doping program too. Maybe their doping program is better than Saxo's or Katusha's. Who knows. But if that is possible, why wouldn't it be possible that their training programs are better too?

If Froome is so talented, why then his skills coincidentally appeared when he joined Sky and not before?

 

[BroDeal]

Secretly in front of the worlds media?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-studies-the-florence-world-championship-course

I have found that whatever Froome or Sky says, assume the opposite is true. It works amazingly well.

 

[thehog]

If Froome is so talented, why then his skills coincidentally appeared when he joined Sky and not before?

He was good at riding sideways before Sky

 

[hfer07]

I have found that whatever Froome or Sky says, assume the opposite is true. It works amazingly well.

When was the last time we have a Tour winner becoming the RR World's Champion the same year???

 

[zlev11]

Lemond.

more proof that Froome is clean.

 

[BroDeal]

He was good at riding sideways before Sky

That is the key right there.

You see most of the cycling world wrote Froome off as a useless git who would never amount to anything on a bike. This was an opinion held not just by his fellow pros, team managers, and fans but Froome's own mother. Brailsford has a keen eye and saw something everyone else missed. Even though Froome was struggling to finish stages, sometimes holding onto motorcycles to make time, Brailsford noticed that the total distance Froome travelled as he zigged and zagged up the road during climbs was roughly 80% more than the distance everyone else was riding. Taking distance into account, Froome was the fastest man in a race.

Brailsford employed British ingenuity to fix the issue. He knew that a regular cycling coach could not handle a problem of this magnitude. None had ever worked with someone as monumentally incompetent at the skill of riding a bike as Froome, who made Fernando Escartin look like Fabian Cancellara. He would have to go outside of cycling to find a coach who was an expert at maintaining a straight line. That's when genius struck. Swimming! Swimmers spend hours going back and forth in a straight line. It was almost too perfect.

He hired a swim coach and a training plan was quickly devised. It consisted of forcing Froome to ride up and down a long and narrow hallway somewhere in Yorkshire. At first Froome could barely do it. He would careen off walls, banging into one side then bouncing over to crash into the other side. They had to start with but one lap per day. Any more and Brailsford was afraid Froome would injure himself. Gradually the distance was increased to two laps then three then five then ten. Slowly but surely Froome got the hang of it and learned to ride in a straight line and, just as Brailsford predicted, Froome's speed was unsurpassable.

Now you know the rest of the story.

 

[the sceptic]

Lemond.

more proof that Froome is clean.

lol

I hope he goes for the RR-ITT double just for fun. And it would be pretty hillarious if he beat Lord Wiggins for the 1-2

 

[victorschipolrijk]

that is the key right there.

You see most of the cycling world wrote froome off as a useless git who would never amount to anything on a bike. This was an opinion held not just by his fellow pros, team managers, and fans but froome's own mother. Brailsford has a keen eye and saw something everyone else missed. Even though froome was struggling to finish stages, sometimes holding onto motorcycles to make time, brailsford noticed that the total distance froome travelled as he zigged and zagged up the road during climbs was roughly 80% more than the distance everyone else was riding. Taking distance into account, froome was the fastest man in a race.

Brailsford employed british ingenuity to fix the issue. He knew that a regular cycling coach could not handle a problem of this magnitude. None had ever worked with someone as monumentally incompetent at the skill of riding a bike as froome, who made fernando escartin look like fabian cancellara. He would have to go outside of cycling to find a coach who was an expert at maintaining a straight line. That's when genius struck. Swimming! Swimmers spend hours going back and forth in a straight line. It was almost too perfect.

He hired a swim coach and a training plan was quickly devised. It consisted of forcing froome to ride up and down a long and narrow hallway somewhere in yorkshire. At first froome could barely do it. He would careen off walls, banging into one side then bouncing over to crash into the other side. They had to start with but one lap per day. Any more and brailsford was afraid froome would injure himself. Gradually the distance was increased to two laps then three then five then ten. Slowly but surely froome got the hang of it and learned to ride in a straight line and, just as brailsford predicted, froome's speed was unsurpassable.

Now you know the rest of the story.

rotflmao!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ferminal]

So if EBH becomes a GC contender everything is ok because of his epic lab results?

Well at least he's actually won 50 races before the "weight-loss/GC-focus/marginal gains" regime nets you Tour victory.

 

[oldcrank]

on the subject of nutrition I must say that i bought a vitamix blender and create 3 green shakes a day. energy is more sustained and endurance, feel better hydration.

Agreed. After about 18 months of daily juicing (including beetroot, carrot
and celery among others) I believe it is contributing to me beating some
of my best ITT times from 40 years ago. Of course I also use science-based products like the Elite Gel Max multi-source energy with caffeine from
Manchester based premium sports nutrition experts CNP that Froomie
and Ritchie use.

 

[Cobblestones]

That is the key right there.

You see most of the cycling world wrote Froome off as a useless git who would never amount to anything on a bike. This was an opinion held not just by his fellow pros, team managers, and fans but Froome's own mother. Brailsford has a keen eye and saw something everyone else missed. Even though Froome was struggling to finish stages, sometimes holding onto motorcycles to make time, Brailsford noticed that the total distance Froome travelled as he zigged and zagged up the road during climbs was roughly 80% more than the distance everyone else was riding. Taking distance into account, Froome was the fastest man in a race.

Brailsford employed British ingenuity to fix the issue. He knew that a regular cycling coach could not handle a problem of this magnitude. None had ever worked with someone as monumentally incompetent at the skill of riding a bike as Froome, who made Fernando Escartin look like Fabian Cancellara. He would have to go outside of cycling to find a coach who was an expert at maintaining a straight line. That's when genius struck. Swimming! Swimmers spend hours going back and forth in a straight line. It was almost too perfect.

He hired a swim coach and a training plan was quickly devised. It consisted of forcing Froome to ride up and down a long and narrow hallway somewhere in Yorkshire. At first Froome could barely do it. He would careen off walls, banging into one side then bouncing over to crash into the other side. They had to start with but one lap per day. Any more and Brailsford was afraid Froome would injure himself. Gradually the distance was increased to two laps then three then five then ten. Slowly but surely Froome got the hang of it and learned to ride in a straight line and, just as Brailsford predicted, Froome's speed was unsurpassable.

Now you know the rest of the story.

This makes much more sense than anything else I've read about Froome.

With Froome, there was never a question of 'marginal gains', this Fred needed 'real gains'.

 

[Galic Ho]

Secretly in front of the worlds media?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-studies-the-florence-world-championship-course

Fear not. Nibali and Cancellara are the favourites for this years course.

Froome doesn't stand a chance.

 

[mikkemus23]

that is the key right there.

You see most of the cycling world wrote froome off as a useless git who would never amount to anything on a bike. This was an opinion held not just by his fellow pros, team managers, and fans but froome's own mother. Brailsford has a keen eye and saw something everyone else missed. Even though froome was struggling to finish stages, sometimes holding onto motorcycles to make time, brailsford noticed that the total distance froome travelled as he zigged and zagged up the road during climbs was roughly 80% more than the distance everyone else was riding. Taking distance into account, froome was the fastest man in a race.

Brailsford employed british ingenuity to fix the issue. He knew that a regular cycling coach could not handle a problem of this magnitude. None had ever worked with someone as monumentally incompetent at the skill of riding a bike as froome, who made fernando escartin look like fabian cancellara. He would have to go outside of cycling to find a coach who was an expert at maintaining a straight line. That's when genius struck. Swimming! Swimmers spend hours going back and forth in a straight line. It was almost too perfect.

He hired a swim coach and a training plan was quickly devised. It consisted of forcing froome to ride up and down a long and narrow hallway somewhere in yorkshire. At first froome could barely do it. He would careen off walls, banging into one side then bouncing over to crash into the other side. They had to start with but one lap per day. Any more and brailsford was afraid froome would injure himself. Gradually the distance was increased to two laps then three then five then ten. Slowly but surely froome got the hang of it and learned to ride in a straight line and, just as brailsford predicted, froome's speed was unsurpassable.

Now you know the rest of the story.

rofl!!!!! :d

 

[tweak37]

Your bullsh!t argument is what is idiotic. That you continue to push this idiocy reflects on you. As I requested, name one top pro in the last fifteen years that used the "just ride lots" training plan. Name on who did not use structured training. Name one who was unaware of altitude training. Your argument is idiotic.

But I have never claimed such a rider exists. (Although I did give you a name, but of course "just ride lots" is exaggerated). Anyway I do not understand why you keep going on about that, it is not part of my argument whatsoever that there would be such a rider...

Answer the question. When DID you start following cycling?

When I was a kid, '93-'94 something like that.

 

[tweak37]

No I don't agree with you. Yes, I believe that cycling was totally clueless to modern training techniques in comparison to other sports in the 80s but they caught up rapidly in the 90s. Are you suggesting that somewhere in the last 10 years that cycling has fallen behind again so much that it would take someone from another sport to bring training methods forward again and thus mark all those who have been coaching cyclists during that time period as pure idiots. Sorry but I do not buy that.

I'm suggesting that there could be differences, not that big that they could explain the entire success of Sky, but important nonetheless. That doesn't mean other coaches or teams are idiots.

Regardless of training methods, only someone with a huge amount of talent would benefit from such methods to obtain the level at which Froome now operates which brings us back to that old nugget. If Froome has that level of talent, he should have shown up much earlier than when he did, parasite or not. He did not so the question is back to how he kept his talent hidden so well for so long??

If SKY had power files from before his transformation that showed he could perform like he did the last few years but was unable to produce it in races then I would be far more willing to believe in Froome. I won't hold my breath.

You believe Froome is as talentless as his results before 2011 suggest? That it is only the doping? I find that hard to belief. EPO could maybe do that back in the early '90s, but now? Maybe Froome (and Wiggins) are "superresponders" for metabolic modulators and do some old school microdosing. I don't think that would make a mediocre rider a GT winner. And if he indeed had more talent than what he showed back then, than maybe his story is a little bit more believable.

If Froome is so talented, why then his skills coincidentally appeared when he joined Sky and not before?

Well, I agree that Froome's breakthrough was highly suspicious. The explanation (his illness, his background, his environment which are supposed to show how he could benefit so much from the support he got at Sky) is quite thin. To me however, that's what he is: highly suspicious (given his breakthrough and given the fact that he is a top GT rider). But not a clear, sure case of doping and all what is wrong in cycling, as so many of you here seem to believe. And so I argue against this kind of dogmatism (and its flawed arguments, like the exceptionalist argument.).

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>


Well, I agree that Froome's breakthrough was highly suspicious. The explanation (his illness, his background, his environment which are supposed to show how he could benefit so much from the support he got at Sky) is quite thin.

<snip>

In the sport of pro cycling, anything that is highly suspicious means only 1 thing. Doping.

Sadly even though plenty in the sport keep shouting about it being cleanER it isnt. The winners of GTs are dopers. Until there is better and independent anti doping controlled by someone with the ability of a Travis Tygart what we are watching will always be 'highly suspicious', which means doping.

Sky have a program. Of course they do. It will out in the end it always does.

 

[thehog]

Fear not. Nibali and Cancellara are the favourites for this years course.

Froome doesn't stand a chance.

Power of the Dawg?

He lacks tactics but I'm sure with 1000ml of RBCs the night before he can go from sideways to straight overnight.

 

[Galic Ho]

Power of the Dawg?

He lacks tactics but I'm sure with 1000ml of RBCs the night before he can go from sideways to straight overnight.

We don't want this to happen. Not with him. I have no doubt Ferrari and Astana will have Nibali firing on all 12 cylinders.

The Dawg will be going into the race cold. I don't see Henao pulling for him do you? The Vuelta Sky team is spearheaded by Columbians. They won't help the Brits. This WC in Lombardy is Italy's and the Swiss to lose as both their big guns are riding the Vuelta. I don't see how any Brit rider could drop Nibali and Spartacus on this course. But that's just me.

Though if anyone gets a litre of red blood cells...yeah, wouldn't wanna be taking them on. Froome would literally need that to win.

 

[RodrigoDaBici]

We don't want this to happen. Not with him. I have no doubt Ferrari and Astana will have Nibali firing on all 12 cylinders.

The Dawg will be going into the race cold. I don't see Henao pulling for him do you? The Vuelta Sky team is spearheaded by Columbians. They won't help the Brits. This WC in Lombardy is Italy's and the Swiss to lose as both their big guns are riding the Vuelta. I don't see how any Brit rider could drop Nibali and Spartacus on this course. But that's just me.

Though if anyone gets a litre of red blood cells...yeah, wouldn't wanna be taking them on. Froome would literally need that to win.

I love your optimism regarding Froome, but seeing him ride like he has since 2011, especially his bizarre accelerations on Ventoux, I'm not a believer. A pity, because he does seem to be a genuinley likeable person.

About the only Colombian I can see riding for the British contingent would be Henao, as he'll be under contract to Sky next year. Though, even that would be doubtful, as the current crop of riders, especially the large contingent coming from Corti's Colombia team, are fiercely proud of their country, none more so than Uran.

By the way, if the Italians and Swiss do turn up in Lombardy for this year's WC then I'll have put my mortgage on the entrant from Tuvalu taking their asses to the cleaners - the Worlds are in Florence / Tuscany.