Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Netserk]

You do know that Ryo is Dutch too, right?

 

[the sceptic]

Rant over, lets get back to debates over whether the revealing of 'motoman' tip the balance towards suggesting at least some Sky riders dope. In my opinion, they have tipped my feelings from Sky possibly don't dope to Sky probably do dope.

Im not sure if you are being serious here, but if so can you explain why?

With all that has been going on at sky, Motoman is the key?

 

[The Hitch]

The thrust of Hitch's comment was that after Michelle Cound tweeted that people were unfairly castigating her boyfriend Froome, that the Castigators came from Twitter Land and not the Clinic. He therefore attacked Foxy Brown 1111 about unfairly maligning the Clinic.

No what I said was they came from contador fans not clinicians. Cound said so herself. Clinic has nothing to do with it and **** anyone so cheap pathetic and desperate that they try to turn what some people who have nothing to do with us said, on the clinic.

However what Hitch conveniently overlooked was the sarcastic, cutting and sardonic attack by the Clinic starting ironically with a post by Sceptic which referred Clinic readers to the Tweets of Cound that in turned spawned a whole host of sarcastic and juvenile comments in the Clinic about Cound.

how were my comments on cound in any way comparable to the death and rape threats she received?

 

[The Hitch]

. To say nationalism is a British problem is ridiculous.
.

No one said nationalism was a British problem.

 

[CycloAndy]

You do know that Ryo is Dutch too, right?

I did but he still displays blatant nationalism towards Colombian riders.

 

[Netserk]

I did but he still displays blatant nationalism towards Colombian riders.

"Yes a lot of people support Sky because they are British, but that is more because Sky were often the first team the fans were exposed to in the media. It's a lazy and perhaps stupid way of making a choice on who to support but it is sometimes the easiest when the media only pay attention to one team. It happens in other places too, just look at the preference displayed by Ryo and Dekker for Colombian and Dutch riders, respectively. To say nationalism is a British problem is ridiculous."

Red 'it' refers to the bolded, no?

Hardly the case for Ryo.

 

[CycloAndy]

"Yes a lot of people support Sky because they are British, but that is more because Sky were often the first team the fans were exposed to in the media. It's a lazy and perhaps stupid way of making a choice on who to support but it is sometimes the easiest when the media only pay attention to one team. It happens in other places too, just look at the preference displayed by Ryo and Dekker for Colombian and Dutch riders, respectively. To say nationalism is a British problem is ridiculous."

Red 'it' refers to the bolded, no?

Hardly the case for Ryo.

By "It" I meant preference for riders based on nationality.

No one said nationalism was a British problem.

It seemed to be implied in a few comments throughout this and other threads but I may have misinterpreted them.

Im not sure if you are being serious here, but if so can you explain why?

With all that has been going on at sky, Motoman is the key?

I was indeed being serious. I always felt that previous accusations had some merit but nothing was as conclusive as some people on here were suggesting. The hiring of Leinders, as an example, was questionable but I wasnt sure what it meant as I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that cycling doctors without a link to doping would be quite difficult to find.
My feelings recently were swaying anyway (as I had more time to consider things) but think the motoman pictures along with the Wiggins pill pictures were the straws that broke the camels back. Neither seem very easy to explain in a non doping context at all.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sorry if that goes against the Sky-is-worse-than-Lance narrative the clinic appears to be trying to develop.

This is a failed argument. Reasonable people are not equating the two.

Reasonable people are asking how the sudden transformations of several riders came to be and seeking evidence one way or another.

 

[EnacheV]

Sky and Froome are clean and took advantage of the 2011-2013 period when people were a little scared to dope because the grand panache cheater Contador got caught.

But it's all over now until a big figure is caught again. Enjoy the ****ty cycling, with same dopers, teams and/or riders at helm.

 

[the sceptic]

By "It" I meant preference for riders based on nationality.



It seemed to be implied in a few comments throughout this and other threads but I may have misinterpreted them.



I was indeed being serious. I always felt that previous accusations had some merit but nothing was as conclusive as some people on here were suggesting. The hiring of Leinders, as an example, was questionable but I wasnt sure what it meant as I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that cycling doctors without a link to doping would be quite difficult to find.
My feelings recently were swaying anyway (as I had more time to consider things) but think the motoman pictures along with the Wiggins pill pictures were the straws that broke the camels back. Neither seem very easy to explain in a non doping context at all.

I see. For me personally, motoman and the pill is easier to explain than other things, but it all adds up of course.

Maybe Kimmage can ask Wiggo what it is if he accepts that interview.

 

[martinvickers]

Del, whilst the stuff that is reported to have been posted to Cound isn't acceptable(if it's true). If we look back at who started that ball rolling it was Cound with her comments. If you fling **** at people you have to be prepared to get it flung back at you.

So a veiled, and in the vent accurate, description of a rider as n ex doper is 'sh!t' that equates to being threatened with rape?

Good stuff, please continue.

 

[BYOP88]

So a veiled, and in the vent accurate, description of a rider as n ex doper is 'sh!t' that equates to being threatened with rape?

Good stuff, please continue.

Martin, not all of us have 24 hours a day to surf the web. Can you direct me to these threats that Cound got?

Also just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean your **** smells better than anyone else's in here. You seem to think you can be as acerbic as you want to people in here, but you throw the toys out of the stroller if someone dares to take an acerbic tone with you.

 

[Ripper]

So a veiled, and in the vent accurate, description of a rider as n ex doper is 'sh!t' that equates to being threatened with rape?

Good stuff, please continue.

Sometimes I think modes of communication, such as twitter, reveal how horrible people can actually be. It's quite nauseating. It really makes me think about what occurs when we stop thinking about people as people.

 

[Digger]

Isn't it weird how everyone has to reference everything in relation to Lance

Anyway as I said before it was deleted that until those who accuse Froome get credible evidence of him taking drugs, being suppleid with drugs or failing a test then al they are are big mouths blowing hot air.

And that includes those who troll his GF on twitter.

Of course we know what happens when people feel that someone is guilty on their hunch, just ask the Guildford 4.

Firstly this is the second time you made this reference today. First time was directly to me...So please specify what I said on twitter which was trolling...

It seems to me that you are trying to lump me in with the Contador fans who were tweeting her this week.

So anyway seen as you are quick to reference my twitter, please give examples where I have trolled her.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It´s a matter of POV. Some think it´s a bigger transformation coming from nowhere b/c of a unusal career path but with constant performances. Some think it´s a bigger transformation (and back to anonymity; shall I call it re-transformation? ) when guys come and go like DeGendt, Cobo, Horner (who shows up once or twice in a 3 year period), Lagutin, PVelits, etc, etc...

Hence why I said the extent of the improvement in Mosquera's case being biggerrelative to Froome's is "arguable" as in, you could make an argument that it was, although I personally would disagree, I would not hold it against you. Claiming him as a post-2010 transformation to suit your point of multiple post-2010 transformations comparable to Froome, however, is quite simply wrong and therefore I would not accept points to that effect.

P.S.: That Pinotti thing that was posted is awesome. I can use his example for the next few years here. I see great discussions going in circles until forever...
I thought I would have to go back to 1900ish to fulfil my promise for Granville to look for a rider transformation like Froome (we agreed outside of the obvious über-doper Horner), and then we only had to go back some years to a rider who is believed to be clean(ish). It couldn´t have gone better. It saved me a lot of time in the summer. Mission accomplished.

Wait, you, the one who said they could name riders who had had transformations comparable to Froome since 2010, thought you would have to go back to 1900ish? It's almost as if you realised you wouldn't be able to do so, and so your claim was, in fact, a needless exaggeration!

(although Pinotti's transformation happened in 2008, so still wouldn't meet your previous criteria)

To the bolded: With an extreme jump at an high age (past peaking)... And I tell you one thing; I was surprised when Pinotti made it possible to stay within the T-20 in a GT at age 31. But even more so when he got even better, being in the T-10 in a very hard GT age 34. He wasn´t known for being a GT contender...

While Froomes rise is more extreme if we look at any 4 year span of both riders, Pinottis is more extreme if we look at the age he did transform from pure TTler to GT contender...

So wait, you're saying going from 18th in a GT to 9th in the course of three years is as extreme a jump as going from being disqualified (while lying 104th on GC) for holding on to a car to only losing on bonus seconds, in 16 months?

So I take it you agree with the point that people who believed in Lance had more reason to do so than people who believe in Sky?

My personal opinion is that there was less reason to believe Lance than there is to believe Sky (while both may be equally suspicious performance-wise, and Sky may be as transparent as a brick wall, there were more definite no-smoke-without-fire indicators with Lance than there are with Sky at a comparable point in their success), but there was more reason for fans to want to believe Lance and to go the extra mile to defend his reputation thanks to the feel-good story and the much-publicised charity figure that he became.

 

[Digger]

So a veiled, and in the vent accurate, description of a rider as n ex doper is 'sh!t' that equates to being threatened with rape?

Good stuff, please continue.

Martin, I have no issue with you today or this week.

However I would hope you take on board what BYOP said just above.

You seem to think you can speak as acerbically or patronising as you like, but if someone gives it back, then you don't like it...and that's fine if you want it that way, but don't get too p***ed off when someone retorts in the same manner.

 

[Digger]

Sky and Froome are clean and took advantage of the 2011-2013 period when people were a little scared to dope because the grand panache cheater Contador got caught.

But it's all over now until a big figure is caught again. Enjoy the ****ty cycling, with same dopers, teams and/or riders at helm.

you are clearly being sarcastic...I think?

 

[DirtyWorks]

It´s a matter of POV. Some think it´s a bigger transformation coming from nowhere b/c of a unusal career path but with constant performances..

This is where I stopped reading. Please point out these consistent performances while riding lower-ranked races that gave the world a clue he was going to be a grand tour field destroyer.

 

[The Hitch]

Martin, not all of us have 24 hours a day to surf the web. Can you direct me to these threats that Cound got?

Also just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean your **** smells better than anyone else's in here. You seem to think you can be as acerbic as you want to people in here, but you throw the toys out of the stroller if someone dares to take an acerbic tone with you.

Very well said

 

[Benotti69]

Froome's courting the tabloids

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...on-Twitter-following-row-with-plane-passenger


Said it already, but methinketh Mrs Froome doth protest too much.

 

[EnacheV]

Said it already, but methinketh Mrs Froome doth protest too much.

If you know you ****ed up you don't usually make a spectacle of protesting, you keep it as quiet possible, like Contador.

If Froome is doping, i don't know, but im sure his fiancee thinks he is clean.

 

[BYOP88]

Froome's courting the tabloids

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...on-Twitter-following-row-with-plane-passenger


Said it already, but methinketh Mrs Froome doth protest too much.

Never knew what she looked like. Surely a TdF winner could get a better looking GF?

 

[Benotti69]

If you know you ****ed up you don't usually make a spectacle of protesting, you keep it as quiet possible, like Contador.

Chris Froome seems to be doing a pros job on the doping front. His Mrs is doing an Armstrong on it, without the court cases. Probably because Froome doesn't have the money behind him that Armstrong had otherwise lots of lawyers letters from Mrs Froome would be arriving........

If Froome is doping, i don't know, but im sure his fiancee thinks he is clean.

maybe she hasn't checked the butter dish in the fridge, because most of the other wags were part of the doping.

 

[BYOP88]

If you know you ****ed up you don't usually make a spectacle of protesting, you keep it as quiet possible, like Contador.

If Froome is doping, i don't know, but im sure his fiancee thinks he is clean.

So by your logic, Wiggans is doping because his gf/wife is saying nothing?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Never knew what she looked like. Surely a TdF winner could get a better looking GF?

I was about to say the same

But tbh Chris looks pretty weird too.