Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[del1962]

Wait you think cound getting abuse on Twitter from some people who have nothing to do with the Clinic justifies you coming after the clinic? You are behaving like one of those vigilante groups who respond to a rumour that an immigrant commited a crime by going and beating up a bunch of immigrants.

Secondly you haven't even got the right group to begin with

Cound specifically said it was fanatical Contador fans who sent her abuse, after she called him.an ex doper.

Here is her tweet


Why the **** then are you using it as a licence to go after the clinic, or more broadly sceptics and anti dopers.

This has nothing to do with anyone in the clinic. The people that sent cound those tweets hold.precisely the kind of in denial opinion about doping that this forum tends to strongly oppose.

If you are really seeking justice for cound, you are sure hell looking for it in the wrong place. If you are actually just looking for an excuse to attack the clinic, that's as weak as they come.

I think the bolded part pretty much describes the general clinic mentality

 

[happychappy]

And I admit I enjoy taking someone down too. It keeps my arguing skills current.

 

[The Hitch]

I was in Flanders for the RvV at the weekend.

Whilst sat on the Kwarmont with some other English guys, some started saying how Valverde and Contador are kicking again and they said they were dodgy. As soon as I mentioned Froome and Sky they got all defensible saying Froome showed promise etc.

Blind.

Yep, its a ****ing disgrace.

Fortunately we can take comfort from the fact that most likely most of the 800 000 people not from England that were with you watching the race agree with us, me and you on the matter.

That's a good starting point. Better than it was with Armstrong.

As for the country where we live, well the nationalists do have the upper hand here no doubt, and it doesn't look like changing soon.

But good things happen to those who wait. Not always. But hopefully this time. If not, at least the rest of the world stands with us.

 

[Digger]

I think the bolded part pretty much describes the general clinic mentality

Says the guy who attacked me first thing this morning....'twitter freak show' and saying shouldn't i be trolling Cound....eventhough she was the one who actually made reference to 'ex doper'. Something we all know full well what was meant...

But look if those are the rules...
The SKY Fans....it really is like going back in time to 2005 and lance...same level of idiocy.

 

[Digger]

Yep, its a ****ing disgrace.

Fortunately we can take comfort from the fact that most likely most of the 800 000 people not from England that were with you watching the race agree with us, me and you on the matter.

That's a good starting point. Better than it was with Armstrong.

As for the country where we live, well the nationalists do have the upper hand here no doubt, and it doesn't look like changing soon.

But good things happen to those who wait. Not always. But hopefully this time. If not, at least the rest of the world stands with us.

I honestly think though that the SKY fans are more rapid and vicious in their beliefs.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I honestly think though that the SKY fans are more rapid and vicious in their beliefs.

Hell, at least in Lance's case, you could feel a bit of understanding for why the cancer connection made some defenders be so overly emotional in their defense of him. What do Sky have? Just nationalism. Ick.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

What relevance does that have with Hitch's post?

His suggestion the Clinic is immune from criticism.

 

[del1962]

Says the guy who attacked me first thing this morning....'twitter freak show' and saying shouldn't i be trolling Cound....eventhough she was the one who actually made reference to 'ex doper'. Something we all know full well what was meant...

But look if those are the rules...
The SKY Fans....it really is like going back in time to 2005 and lance...same level of idiocy.

You do troll michelle cound on twitter though, none of what I said is wrong, oh and I see you bringing in the Lance false analogy what a surpise,

Perhaps you will bring some evidence against Froome one day, like people saying they supplied drugs, seeing him using drugs or failing a test, other than that all you are is a big mouth blowing hot air.

 

[Netserk]

His suggestion the Clinic is immune from criticism.

Please point out where he suggests that. He doesn't. Your whole response had absolutely nothing to do with his post.

 

[red_flanders]

Good, but why you got annoyed then by saying I threw mud at those other riders? I do nothing different than some posters do with Froome/Sky... It´s a circus here, and sometimes I join the party when it gets really tough. For example when the gay jokes about Froome started, I had some for Horner. Or when the "twitter party" started yesterday, I felt like to join... for balance, you know... something I do since the Europecar theatre.

If you had a single convincing argument you could crow about balance. Balance would be offering why Froome is clean, not bringing up Horner every 5 seconds as if anyone is arguing that Horner is clean.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Hell, at least in Lance's case, you could feel a bit of understanding for why the cancer connection made some defenders be so overly emotional in their defense of him. What do Sky have? Just nationalism. Ick.

Lance had a mountain of evidence againt him, eye-witnesses, covered up tests, retro-active positives, are you seriously going to sit there and say Lance's defenders had more reason to deny his doping than Sky fans have to defend their team? Walsh dug up a huge pile of crap on Lance before the last century was out, what has Kimmage managed on Sky?

Sorry if that goes against the Sky-is-worse-than-Lance narrative the clinic appears to be trying to develop. I like the lazy, ill-informed accusations of nationalism, as if people own nation bias doesn't inform their opinion of 'the Brits'.

And Hitch, since you seem to have such a problem with the country, media and people here, there is a very elegant solution. Perhaps in a new country you can aim your bile at them instead.

Nationalists, seriously? Are you Putin in disguise?

 

[Benotti69]

Lance had a mountain of evidence againt him, eye-witnesses, covered up tests, retro-active positives, are you seriously going to sit there and say Lance's defenders had more reason to deny his doping than Sky fans have to defend their team?

Rewriting history James?

Walsh dug up a huge pile of crap on Lance before the last century was out

,

Really, Wlash said he only doubted Armstrong when Armstrong bullied Bassons. Ferrari came out in 2002, retroactive tests in 2005.....rewrite the history!

what has Kimmage managed on Sky?

Where do you suggest he start? He has already point to Sky's lies about transparency.

Sorry if that goes against the Sky-is-worse-than-Lance narrative the clinic appears to be trying to develop. I like the lazy, ill-informed accusations of nationalism, as if people own nation bias doesn't inform their opinion of 'the Brits'.

Only a few on TeamSky are British. So how do you explain British people's defence of Sky even after all the 'evidence' points to a team not being transparent.

And Hitch, since you seem to have such a problem with the country, media and people here, there is a very elegant solution. Perhaps in a new country you can aim your bile at them instead.

Nationalists, seriously? Are you Putin in disguise?

Playing the man with insults really helps your points

 

[JimmyFingers]

So I take it you agree with the point that people who believed in Lance had more reason to do so than people who believe in Sky?

[edit] The vortex is spinning again, got drawn in again, must escape

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

So I take it you agree with the point that people who believed in Lance had more reason to do so than people who believe in Sky?

I for one don't agree with that point, but the original point was that Armstrong-believers had more reason to be fanatic about defending/believing him

 

[Benotti69]

So I take it you agree with the point that people who believed in Lance had more reason to do so than people who believe in Sky?

From where i sit, i am surprised that cycling fans believe the drivel from Sky. But then maybe these people have just come on board now that the British have something to cheer about in cycling.

After what we know about the sport, the likes of Armstrong, Landis, Hincapie, Hamilton, Yates, Jullich, Rogers, Dekker, Jackshe, Millar, Frei, Di Luca, Ballan, Scarponi, Contador, Valverde, Hesjedal, etc etc and since Sky entered the sport no real anti-doping change and yet they believe Wiggins who used to finish 3hours down and Froome who hung onto motorbikes somehow can win clean on Sky!

Please Jimmy wake up and smell the roses!

 

[the sceptic]

So I take it you agree with the point that people who believed in Lance had more reason to do so than people who believe in Sky?

No. Its the other way around.

Its the same story of course, blind nationalism and hero worshipping.

The Lance fans were blinded by the cancer shield, and they also didnt have a long history of donkeys turning out to be dopers. (at least not in the beginning)

Sky fans should know better.

 

[martinvickers]

Wow. Just...wow. First class.

10-04-14 for the record books, people.

<splash>

 

[The Hitch]

, as if people own nation bias doesn't inform their opinion of 'the Brits'.

No it doesn't. Don't make the mistake of assuming your own weaknesses are held by everybody.many of the people who doubt sky in here are British. Many even support froome. They just don't let emotion interfere with their judgment.

 

[del1962]

Isn't it weird how everyone has to reference everything in relation to Lance

Anyway as I said before it was deleted that until those who accuse Froome get credible evidence of him taking drugs, being suppleid with drugs or failing a test then al they are are big mouths blowing hot air.

And that includes those who troll his GF on twitter.

Of course we know what happens when people feel that someone is guilty on their hunch, just ask the Guildford 4.

 

[Netserk]

Isn't it weird how everyone has to reference everything in relation to Lance[missing question mark here, surely?]

No .

 

[martinvickers]

No .

Of course not. Because Lance invented doping and blood bags and EPO, didn't he?

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Please point out where he suggests that. He doesn't. Your whole response had absolutely nothing to do with his post.

The thrust of Hitch's comment was that after Michelle Cound tweeted that people were unfairly castigating her boyfriend Froome, that the Castigators came from Twitter Land and not the Clinic. He therefore attacked Foxy Brown 1111 about unfairly maligning the Clinic.

However what Hitch conveniently overlooked was the sarcastic, cutting and sardonic attack by the Clinic starting ironically with a post by Sceptic which referred Clinic readers to the Tweets of Cound that in turned spawned a whole host of sarcastic and juvenile comments in the Clinic about Cound.

A selected review of the tsunami of ridicule he started is as follows.

Sceptic Quote #9645

Michelle went full *** on twitter today. Would highly recommend everyone to go read it.


Digger Quote #9647

I did - and it should be alongside the definition of irony in the dictionary.

JimPanzen Quote #9649

From what she wrote it seems close to a mental breakdown. I'm still not sure if it's because she's emotionally invested to a high degree or if she's just not the brightest candle on the cake.

deeno 1975 #9660

That gives away a distinct lack of class that she is trying to portray exists. Sometimes the veil is lowered and the real Michelle is displayed.


Hitch Quote #9682

Well no, innocent people can protest their innocence. Also Cound herself probably actually believes Froome doesn't dope, same as many family membes in high profile cases always believe their relation is innocent.

(This is a patently untrue observation of how most family members react in these situations by the way)

So while Cound displays way too much ignorance for someone who has an opinion on the matter, places a self deluded ammount of credit into her own ability to get the truth from her boyfriend by looking into his eyes and can be quite annoying in the way she goes about it, her shouting it all the time really doesn't mean anything when it comes to the question of whether or not Froome dopes



Now comment #9645 is exactly what I was talking about in my comment #9887 about the facetious nature of the comments in the Clinic. So it is hypocritical of Hitch to criticize those dastardly tweeters as the only culprits criticizing Cound when he knew all along the Clinic including himself had done the same thing with just as much vitriol.

 

[Netserk]

Of course not. Because Lance invented doping and blood bags and EPO, didn't he?

You already know the answer to that. And you know that I know as well. No need to ask.

 

[BYOP88]

Isn't it weird how everyone has to reference everything in relation to Lance

Anyway as I said before it was deleted that until those who accuse Froome get credible evidence of him taking drugs, being suppleid with drugs or failing a test then al they are are big mouths blowing hot air.

And that includes those who troll his GF on twitter.

Of course we know what happens when people feel that someone is guilty on their hunch, just ask the Guildford 4.

Del, whilst the stuff that is reported to have been posted to Cound isn't acceptable(if it's true). If we look back at who started that ball rolling it was Cound with her comments. If you fling **** at people you have to be prepared to get it flung back at you.

 

[CycloAndy]

Lance had a mountain of evidence againt him, eye-witnesses, covered up tests, retro-active positives, are you seriously going to sit there and say Lance's defenders had more reason to deny his doping than Sky fans have to defend their team? Walsh dug up a huge pile of crap on Lance before the last century was out, what has Kimmage managed on Sky?

Sorry if that goes against the Sky-is-worse-than-Lance narrative the clinic appears to be trying to develop. I like the lazy, ill-informed accusations of nationalism, as if people own nation bias doesn't inform their opinion of 'the Brits'.

Well reasoned argument on both points (until you aimed personal accusations at the end (not quoted)). Some of the posts accusing "the Brits" of nationalism are themselves ridiculously xenophobic.

Yes a lot of people support Sky because they are British, but that is more because Sky were often the first team the fans were exposed to in the media. It's a lazy and perhaps stupid way of making a choice on who to support (because the hitch and others are right when saying nationality shouldn't matter at all) but it is sometimes the easiest when the media only pay attention to one team. It happens in other places too, just look at the preference displayed by Ryo and Dekker for Colombian and Dutch riders, respectively. To say nationalism is a British problem is ridiculous.

Rant over, lets get back to debates over whether the revealing of 'motoman' tip the balance towards suggesting at least some Sky riders dope. In my opinion, they have tipped my feelings from Sky possibly don't dope to Sky probably do dope.