Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[SeriousSam]

At Ax3, Froome gained more than a minute over his nearest competitor (NB Super Richie wasn't a competitor and it was still 51 seconds). Who was the last rider to put in such a devastating attack on a summit finish? Without looking it up, my guess is Lance.

 

[Parker]

At Ax3, Froome gained more than a minute over his nearest competitor (NB Super Richie wasn't a competitor and it was still 51 seconds). Who was the last rider to put in such a devastating attack on a summit finish? Without looking it up, my guess is Lance.

I'd guess at Nibali in the Giro (stage 18), a couple of months before. And he didn't need to do that.
For the Tour then maybe Contador & Schleck on Stage 14 in 2010, Contador in 2009 on stage 15 or Sastre in 2008 on stage 17. These were similar margins - Sastre's was huge though.

You would have dropped your load in the 80s pre EPO. Hinault and LeMond beating everyone by 5 minutes despite doing Alpe d'Huez in 48 minutes.

 

[Netserk]

I'd guess at Nibali in the Giro (stage 18), a couple of months before. And he didn't need to do that.
For the Tour then maybe Contador & Schleck on Stage 14 in 2010, Contador in 2009 on stage 15 or Sastre in 2008 on stage 17. These were similar margins - Sastre's was huge though.

You would have dropped your load in the 80s pre EPO. Hinault and LeMond beating everyone by 5 minutes despite doing Alpe d'Huez in 48 minutes.

You're calling a MTT a MTF?

Where on the climb did he put in his devastating attack?

 

[Parker]

You're calling a MTT a MTF?

Where on the climb did he put in his devastating attack?

Sorry. I meant stage 20. Not 18. Maybe not big in terms of time, but certainly in terms of devastating. Like in this year's Tour - a statement of superiority.

 

[LaFlorecita]

At Ax3, Froome gained more than a minute over his nearest competitor (NB Super Richie wasn't a competitor and it was still 51 seconds). Who was the last rider to put in such a devastating attack on a summit finish? Without looking it up, my guess is Lance.

Alberto at the 2011 Giro also

 

[Coat-O]

Sorry. I meant stage 20. Not 18. Maybe not big in terms of time, but certainly in terms of devastating. Like in this year's Tour - a statement of superiority.

The Giro lineup that year was a lot weaker through.

 

[The Hitch]

You're calling a MTT a MTF?

Where on the climb did he put in his devastating attack?

Also it's the ****ing giro. Froome did it vs all the top gt riders. Nibali did it vs uran, duarte, fat man betancur (coming back from a puncture) and his current bottle carrier scarponi.

 

[Fzotrlool]

Also it's the ****ing giro. Froome did it vs all the top gt riders. Nibali did it vs uran, duarte, fat man betancur (coming back from a puncture) and his current bottle carrier scarponi.

You didn't even mentioned Evans?

 

[Dr. Juice]

51 seconds to a good but not outstanding climber like Porte.
Shows that he was simply in the form of his life and the others either in horrible form (Contador) or a little late on form (Quintana, Rodriguez). I mean it was impressive but nothing unbelievable in hindsight. The fact that Nibali '14 rides the same W on similar long climbs means that his opponents THAT DAY were not any stronger than Majka or Pinot this year. It is just pure numbers.

Of course there often have to be the right circumstances for a crushing display. It was an impressive ride that day but as I said: there have been better performances in the past from current riders, or better Contador, in Verbier 2009 with crazy VAM and W/kg or Plateau de Beille 2007 together with Rasmussen (1 Minute better than full attack Armstrong 2002) and some Giro '11 performances.
And Nibali in top form is about the same level as Froome. There is not much between them. I would have loved to see all 3 big guns at this years Tour. Nibali could have matched Froome, only Alberto going faster.

 

[Netserk]

Alberto at the 2011 Giro also

He didn't Remember grande Rujanito.

The most recent to do so before Froome '13 was Sastre '08 on Alpe.

 

[Dr. Juice]

He didn't Remember grande Rujanito.

The most recent to do so before Froome '13 was Sastre '08 on Alpe.

Is it more impressive when someone rides 440 W but a random guy ( Rujano) can follow or someone rides 415 - 420 W and puts his opponents over a minute behind because they can't exceed 400 W ?
You always measure an effort compared to other riders, so the latter seems more impressive and by definition "impresses" more ( wow, such a big gap to the rest). But in hindsight, thought about it, the first effort should be more noteworthy.

You forgot Riccò Col d' Aspin

 

[Walkman]

51 seconds to a good but not outstanding climber like Porte.
Shows that he was simply in the form of his life and the others either in horrible form (Contador) or a little late on form (Quintana, Rodriguez). I mean it was impressive but nothing unbelievable in hindsight. The fact that Nibali '14 rides the same W on similar long climbs means that his opponents THAT DAY were not any stronger than Majka or Pinot this year. It is just pure numbers.

Of course there often have to be the right circumstances for a crushing display. It was an impressive ride that day but as I said: there have been better performances in the past from current riders, or better Contador, in Verbier 2009 with crazy VAM and W/kg or Plateau de Beille 2007 together with Rasmussen (1 Minute better than full attack Armstrong 2002) and some Giro '11 performances.
And Nibali in top form is about the same level as Froome. There is not much between them. I would have loved to see all 3 big guns at this years Tour. Nibali could have matched Froome, only Alberto going faster.

Yeah, I am having a hard time taking your word for it, sorry.

 

[Dr. Juice]

Yeah, I am having a hard time taking your word for it, sorry.

Why that? They both produced about the same wattage for similar lenght climbs. Tour 2013 vs Tour 2014. Froome had a slightly higher peak, meaning he might have dropped Nibali by 20-30 seconds on Ventoux and Ax3. Not put a minute or more between them. As I said, Contador was in horrible form and Quintana+ Rodriguez not yet at 100% in the pyrenees. Otherwise it's unexplainable that they climb slower than Porte, who is far from an outstanding climber, even at 100%.
It doesn't take anything away from Froome, it just shows that his performances were not "superhuman", just very very good. Of course, if the opponents are that weak ( does not matter how their name is) it seems superhuman. It's always like that when you put a lot of time into them.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He didn't Remember grande Rujanito.

The most recent to do so before Froome '13 was Sastre '08 on Alpe.

Rujano didn't matter for the overall. He put almost 1 minute into all his rivals. And Rujano on his kiddie bike was drafting behind big Alberto all the way.

 

[The Hitch]

You didn't even mentioned Evans?

Well Evans was way down on that mountain. TBF so was Scarponi, so I guess I should replace "current domestique" with "then domestique" since Aru was 5th.

 

[The Hitch]

Why that? They both produced about the same wattage for similar lenght climbs. Tour 2013 vs Tour 2014. Froome had a slightly higher peak, meaning he might have dropped Nibali by 20-30 seconds on Ventoux and Ax3. Not put a minute or more between them. As I said, Contador was in horrible form and Quintana+ Rodriguez not yet at 100% in the pyrenees. Otherwise it's unexplainable that they climb slower than Porte, who is far from an outstanding climber, even at 100%.
It doesn't take anything away from Froome, it just shows that his performances were not "superhuman", just very very good. Of course, if the opponents are that weak ( does not matter how their name is) it seems superhuman. It's always like that when you put a lot of time into them.

You've got some extremely weird system where you give every rider in the peloton a set ability which remains static their whole career and anytime a rider you perceive as weaker, performs well, you play down the performance of everyone else.

By your logic Nibali, Valverde, Purito were all riding very poorly last Vuelta because they were beat by Horner. In reality we know Horner had legend level climbing form, but for you, since riders can't actually ever improve (since you can't accept the idea that Porte was 10 x better in 2013 than he has been at other times), that can't be an acceptable suggestion so it must be simply that every rider in the entire Grand Tour stooped down to Horner's level rather than that he raised his.

 

[Dr. Juice]

I said Porte is a good, but not outstanding climber. Surely he was at 100 % last year. But the base level of Quintana, Contador and Nibali is much higher. Hence they underperformed. Which does not make Froome's ride ordinary. It was very very good. It just puts it a little into perspective.

Yeah, you say Horner had legendary climbing level last year that is true. Faster than Contador 2008 and Cobo 2011, 2nd best ever on Angliru. It's another example of a rider who was able to perform at a similar or higher level than Froome.
Very very good performances we've seen by Chris. But nothing extraterrestrial. That's all I wanted to say.
Thus I state that people sometimes overestimate him when they paint him as equally strong as the best version of Contador and put him several levels above Nibali/ Quintana.

 

[Praying Mantis]

The secret is finally exposed!

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

You've got some extremely weird system where you give every rider in the peloton a set ability which remains static their whole career

Funny stuff from the guy who discounted Nibali's chances before the Giro 13 because Wiggins won the Tour 12.

 

[go crazy]

Froome dropped today, so will we see him channeling his inner 2006-Floyd to make up the gap?

 

[The Hitch]

Funny stuff from the guy who discounted Nibali's chances before the Giro 13 because Wiggins won the Tour 12.

huh?

10 characters.

 

[deeno1975]

Froome dropped today, so will we see him channeling his inner 2006-Floyd to make up the gap?

Ahem, ran out of gas, ahem.

 

[bigcog]

His form is a bit more believable than someone has supposedly had a broken tibia and knee ligament damage ...

 

[Netserk]

Is it more impressive when someone rides 440 W but a random guy ( Rujano) can follow or someone rides 415 - 420 W and puts his opponents over a minute behind because they can't exceed 400 W ?
You always measure an effort compared to other riders, so the latter seems more impressive and by definition "impresses" more ( wow, such a big gap to the rest). But in hindsight, thought about it, the first effort should be more noteworthy.

You forgot Riccò Col d' Aspin

1) Not a summit finish.

2) It's before Sastre on Alpe, so that one is still the most recent example before Froome.

 

[Inquitus]

His form is a bit more believable than someone has supposedly had a broken tibia and knee ligament damage ...

Aye, this is the real question needs to be answered, how do you break a femur, spend nigh on 6 weeks off the bike between the Tour and the start of the Vuelta and ride like this? not without some heavy duty doping imo.

It looks alot like Sky might have been clean and now Astana and Saxo are on something......