Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Jul 4, 2015
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Still not blocked by Froome, good, so I can read those very interesting tweets about:

I hope my boy loves lions as much as I do! ❤️☺️ #YellowJersey #TDF2015

too bad Walsh blocked me though, he is pure comedy gold

image.jpg


##blocked

what an hypocritical moron, it really is astonishing this guy is being paid for his job

Ramon Koran said:
The fact is although i agree that walsh has said some dumb stuff, it is not by trolling him on Twitter that you are going to achieve anything. On the contrary you make yourselfs apear bitter, ridiculous. Maybe if you could come up with some strong evidence to show that walsh is lying, or talking rubbish you would be taken more seriously.



That's exactly what Fearless Greg LeMond has done, he's not trolling Walsh at all, he pointed out his hypocrisy and asked him to clarify his position. Result? Blocked by Walsh.
Where does he point de out his hypocrisy? Walsh answers the question with à reasonable answer "Contador is weaker in the TT", yet FGL comes back talking about climbing. Had walsh come back and said "he is climbing slower" then yes the answer by FGL would have been reasonable because walsh would be lying, but here walsh is starting a fact.
It seems to me FGL, couldnt accept that walsh had made à valid point.
 
Re: Re:

Supimilian said:
King Boonen said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Still not blocked by Froome, good, so I can read those very interesting tweets about:

I hope my boy loves lions as much as I do! ❤️☺️ #YellowJersey #TDF2015

too bad Walsh blocked me though, he is pure comedy gold

image.jpg


##blocked

what an hypocritical moron, it really is astonishing this guy is being paid for his job

Ramon Koran said:
The fact is although i agree that walsh has said some dumb stuff, it is not by trolling him on Twitter that you are going to achieve anything. On the contrary you make yourselfs apear bitter, ridiculous. Maybe if you could come up with some strong evidence to show that walsh is lying, or talking rubbish you would be taken more seriously.



That's exactly what Fearless Greg LeMond has done, he's not trolling Walsh at all, he pointed out his hypocrisy and asked him to clarify his position. Result? Blocked by Walsh.

The fact that he blocks him with no rebuttal says it all. This is why laws against 'trolling' are idiotic: harassing and threatening people is already illegal, so it becomes a tool to maintain narrative for some agenda in a broad sense. Walsh is getting 'trolled' here. :rolleyes:
Total joke.

Walsh can claim it's trolling and his followers will back him, but notice he wouldn't dare take any legal action over a tweet such as this. It's the problem with social media really, Walsh has the loudest mic and can shut off other peoples mics when they join his discussion and he doesn't like it.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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the sceptic said:
Ramon Koran said:
Some people need to get a life, I mean seriously spending your time asking people questions just to provoke them is pathetic. No wonder walsh banned some of you, you are just trolling and not contributing to the debate.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing in this thread?
I believe i am debating.
 
Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Still not blocked by Froome, good, so I can read those very interesting tweets about:

I hope my boy loves lions as much as I do! ❤️☺️ #YellowJersey #TDF2015

too bad Walsh blocked me though, he is pure comedy gold

image.jpg


##blocked

what an hypocritical moron, it really is astonishing this guy is being paid for his job

Ramon Koran said:
The fact is although i agree that walsh has said some dumb stuff, it is not by trolling him on Twitter that you are going to achieve anything. On the contrary you make yourselfs apear bitter, ridiculous. Maybe if you could come up with some strong evidence to show that walsh is lying, or talking rubbish you would be taken more seriously.



That's exactly what Fearless Greg LeMond has done, he's not trolling Walsh at all, he pointed out his hypocrisy and asked him to clarify his position. Result? Blocked by Walsh.
Where does he point de out his hypocrisy? Walsh answers the question with à reasonable answer "Contador is weaker in the TT", yet FGL comes back talking about climbing. Had walsh come back and said "he is climbing slower" then yes the answer by FGL would have been reasonable because walsh would be lying, but here walsh is starting a fact.
It seems to me FGL, couldnt accept that walsh had made à valid point.

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.
 
Jun 15, 2015
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Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
Where does he point de out his hypocrisy? Walsh answers the question with à reasonable answer "Contador is weaker in the TT", yet FGL comes back talking about climbing. Had walsh come back and said "he is climbing slower" then yes the answer by FGL would have been reasonable because walsh would be lying, but here walsh is starting a fact.
It seems to me FGL, couldnt accept that walsh had made à valid point.

Walsh is not even making sense with the claim. Contador was not dramatically worse in the TT by any means in 2012 after the suspension. By the look of results he was at about 2010 /11 levels in 2012. He was also climbing like himself in the 2012 Vuelta. It's a pathetic attempt that exposes his incompetence and/or dishonesty.

Checked the results. He was top 10 in every TT he rode in '12, even the WC. :eek:
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Do we really need this Walsh debate again? It's extremely obvious he was paid by sky to write fairytales for skyfans to believe in. Anyone who thinks Walsh is still some kind of objective observer is either trolling or clueless.
 
Re:

the sceptic said:
Do we really need this Walsh debate again? It's extremely obvious he was paid by sky to write fairytales for skyfans to believe in. Anyone who thinks Walsh is still some kind of objective observer is either trolling or clueless.

I think it's fair, not everyone can has all the pieces to fit together. If people continue to argue once they are given the bits, that's when it's trolling.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Still not blocked by Froome, good, so I can read those very interesting tweets about:

I hope my boy loves lions as much as I do! ❤️☺️ #YellowJersey #TDF2015

too bad Walsh blocked me though, he is pure comedy gold

image.jpg


##blocked

what an hypocritical moron, it really is astonishing this guy is being paid for his job

Ramon Koran said:
The fact is although i agree that walsh has said some dumb stuff, it is not by trolling him on Twitter that you are going to achieve anything. On the contrary you make yourselfs apear bitter, ridiculous. Maybe if you could come up with some strong evidence to show that walsh is lying, or talking rubbish you would be taken more seriously.



That's exactly what Fearless Greg LeMond has done, he's not trolling Walsh at all, he pointed out his hypocrisy and asked him to clarify his position. Result? Blocked by Walsh.
Where does he point de out his hypocrisy? Walsh answers the question with à reasonable answer "Contador is weaker in the TT", yet FGL comes back talking about climbing. Had walsh come back and said "he is climbing slower" then yes the answer by FGL would have been reasonable because walsh would be lying, but here walsh is starting a fact.
It seems to me FGL, couldnt accept that walsh had made à valid point.

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.
I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?
 
Jun 15, 2015
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Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

One tour :rolleyes:
He was as fast as ever (or not far off) in last years Vuelta.
 
Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.
I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.
 
Jun 15, 2015
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Re:

the sceptic said:
Contador 2007, climbing speed proves doping
Froome 2013, climbing speed doesn't prove doping
And when he is doing the same speed but finishing second to a Sky rider after the suspension = currently cleans.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.
I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.
Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Re:

LaFlorecita said:
It's very simple, Froome or another Sky wins, everyone is cleans. Another rider beats Froome or whichever Sky is the team leader, the rider that beat Sky is doping.
Nonsense, do you here people on Twitter accusing Quintana of doping? No, because he has no history, Contador has got history there for his performances are always going to be under scrutiny.
 
Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.
I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.
Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.

Adding yourself in is ridiculous, unless you happen to be a world tour pro climber? It is a non sequitur:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)


Contador is widely accepted as the greatest GT rider of his generation, with numbers higher than many other known dopers. He is also widely recognised by many as a blood doper. To suggest that Froome, who was hanging onto motorbikes to survive a few years ago is a more talented GT rider than Contador is, frankly, insane and exactly why you will get accused of trolling in the clinic.

I am not a Contador fan, I won't discuss him outside the clinic because I don't believe you really can, but he is clearly one of the best GT riders ever. The likelihood of anyone beating his best clean is extremely small. History and common sense tells us that.
 
When all the riders with similar times and numbers to Froome/Contador are proven dopers it becomes a lot easier to draw conclusions. What is more likely?

a) Froome is just another doper posting times similar to other dopers.
b) Froome is the most mercurial talent of all time and the only rider capable of riding as fast as the best dopers up the mountain.

Considering Froome's extreme level of suckage before 2011, it would be a massive stretch to even begin considering b) as a valid option.
 
Jun 15, 2015
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Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
LaFlorecita said:
It's very simple, Froome or another Sky wins, everyone is cleans. Another rider beats Froome or whichever Sky is the team leader, the rider that beat Sky is doping.
Nonsense, do you here people on Twitter accusing Quintana of doping? No, because he has no history, Contador has got history there for his performances are always going to be under scrutiny.

This is dodging the issue. When Sky brings in Walsh as a character witness to convince us they are clean, they should keep it above talking mere nonsense. If they make claims like Walsh does in the example, they should expect to be questioned on pretty much all fronts and are instantly more suspect than a rider that is ONLY riding fast.
 
Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
LaFlorecita said:
It's very simple, Froome or another Sky wins, everyone is cleans. Another rider beats Froome or whichever Sky is the team leader, the rider that beat Sky is doping.
Nonsense, do you here people on Twitter accusing Quintana of doping? No, because he has no history, Contador has got history there for his performances are always going to be under scrutiny.

Quintana is most likely a doper. About the only person in here who would defend him is Ryo.


The reason you do not have lots of people accusing him on twitter is because he does not have a supposedly investigative journalist backing him up, a large social media presence or a team who constantly spout how they are whiter than white, yet all of them shut down the conversation as soon as anyone points out the massive holes in what they say and do.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.

http://www.tdfblog.com/2007/07/walsh-contador-.html

''Walsh: Contador "definitely cheating"

Macleans.ca | The Macleans.ca Interview: David Walsh

In a new interview with Macleans.ca, David Walsh, author of From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France and chief sportswriter for The Sunday Times, says he's been following the Tour, and isn't sad to see Vinokourov and Rasmussen shown the door.

DW: Why is it sad? They’re cheating. It’s sad that they cheat, but it’s good news when they get caught. What is sad is that the guy who’s wearing the yellow jersey now, Alberto Contador, is definitely cheating.
Walsh says he's sure that even the riders still in the race are cheating because they climbed the Col d'Aubisque “faster than Lance Armstrong ever went up it.”


Walsh, an outspoken critic of Armstrong, believes the teams that are trying to compete clean are “getting screwed, as they have been for the last 15 years.” He briefly discusses how riders get around positives by carefully scheduling drug use, transfusions, and hormones to minimize the chance of being caught."


But lets not use facts in a debate wether or not David Walsh is a sell out.

And what King Boonen is posting of course
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Ramon Koran said:
King Boonen said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Still not blocked by Froome, good, so I can read those very interesting tweets about:

I hope my boy loves lions as much as I do! ❤️☺️ #YellowJersey #TDF2015

too bad Walsh blocked me though, he is pure comedy gold

image.jpg


##blocked

what an hypocritical moron, it really is astonishing this guy is being paid for his job

Ramon Koran said:
The fact is although i agree that walsh has said some dumb stuff, it is not by trolling him on Twitter that you are going to achieve anything. On the contrary you make yourselfs apear bitter, ridiculous. Maybe if you could come up with some strong evidence to show that walsh is lying, or talking rubbish you would be taken more seriously.



That's exactly what Fearless Greg LeMond has done, he's not trolling Walsh at all, he pointed out his hypocrisy and asked him to clarify his position. Result? Blocked by Walsh.
Where does he point de out his hypocrisy? Walsh answers the question with à reasonable answer "Contador is weaker in the TT", yet FGL comes back talking about climbing. Had walsh come back and said "he is climbing slower" then yes the answer by FGL would have been reasonable because walsh would be lying, but here walsh is starting a fact.
It seems to me FGL, couldnt accept that walsh had made à valid point.

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.

Not just 2007. In 2012 while Vaughters was doing the "Mission Accomplished: Doping has been defeated for ever" Victory Tour, celebrating how allegedly slower times in a few gts in 2011 and 2012 proved cycling was clean, some of it rubbed of on Walsh. Walsh himself did a talk in late 2012 in London with the Times and an audience, mostly promotional for seven deadly sins and about Armstrong. Of course he was also asked about Sky and modern cycling. He said that one of the reasons he believed the sport was clean now, at least at the Tour, was because at the 2012 Tour and Wiggins et al, were slower than the early 2000's.

Of course its not even strictly true that the 2012 Tour was slower. They had no mtfs so its difficult to measure, but Peyresoudes was as fast as 07, both wiggos and froomes w/kg according to Ammitroyaly were higher than some of Lances tours, lower than others, and the tts were fast.

Anyway, its irrelevant if 2012 Tour was slower or not. Walsh claimed it was and used it as an argument for why cycling is trustworthy now.

Then 8 months later in July 2013 he is first on the scene post Ax-3 dismissing as ignorant the idea that you can use climbing speeds as proof.

And I remember Alex Oates on twitter, who as I recall was a tweeter that was generally quite defensive of Sky, at least on the doping question, linking to some Walsh interview that day where Walsh was furious that people weren't simply taking his word for it. He saw himself as the world authority on doping and had thought that by vouching for Sky all doubt would be forever erased.
 
The whole notion that the average speed of a Tour is proof in any way is moronic anyway. If Contador had ridden the 2008 Tour and held the same average speed as in his 2010 "win", he would have finished over two hours behind Sastre.

So obviously, Sastre is the most doped up rider of all time. Or Walsh is a moron. I'll go with the latter.
 
Re:

Saint Unix said:
The whole notion that the average speed of a Tour is proof in any way is moronic anyway. If Contador had ridden the 2008 Tour and held the same average speed as in his 2010 "win", he would have finished over two hours behind Sastre.

So obviously, Sastre is the most doped up rider of all time. Or Walsh is a moron. I'll go with the latter.
What I meant to say is that Walsh was referring to the climbs being slower, not the average speed.
 
Walsh said in "The Armstrong Lie" that the organizers wanted a slower Tour than they had during the Festina Scandal Tour, but that '99 was the fastest ever and because of this Armstrong was a doper. In other words, Walsh won't let obstacles like logic or common sense stop him from using the average speed of a stage race as a whole as proof of whichever narrative he wants to spin.