Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The point is he grew up without a cycling culture. You think a proper coach in his early years wouldn't have corrected his form? even if you leave out his form he is awkward in the peloton. learned at 20 what most European kids learn in their first years on a bike. Have you seen the roads in Kenya? I haven't been to south Africa but cant imagine they are much better. from a cycling point of view he grew up poor. and as far as being rich he grew up in what we Americans would refer to as a lower middle class family. Single parent low income.

I thought Froome and his brothers went to a private school with a 30,000$ annual tuition fee? Where did that money come from?

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

How can it be a level playing field?

Who is 'measuring' the quantities of dope being taken by each rider?

Who is 'measuring' the way a rider responds to each PED to balance it out so they all get the same level of response?

The only 'level playing field' possible is for everyone to ride clean.

Quoted for truth.

Thats the whole problem, but if you look at things that way, nobody would ever be on a level playing field.. due to different fysiology. they already tried to make a system that puts them on a level playing field...

IT would be very unfair even if they ride clean should there be a max to muscle mass ? or how tall you can be ? should we have a weight class ?? see all that is silly... because abit of the beauty is that its not a "total" level playing field, but even those you don't expect to do well can surprise

You may be missing the point of sport. To see who is the best, to see, on a level playing field, who can do the most within the rules and with their own drive, ability, smarts and effort, can win against all comers. To celebrate excellence and the differences between us which make some people great. To emulate those who are gifted, hard-working, strong and resilient.

Not to have a pharma contest and see which freak responds the best.

Nice to see there are some reasonable posters out there.

As for DrSahl, talk about a guy who can't see the wood for the trees...

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Froome's Ventoux stage win may have been one of the fastest ever for a HC mountain stage.

Didn't he climb that slower than a chunk of riders from 2009, including Kreuziger?

Hitch meant the stage as a whole, which was 230-ish kilometers of flats before Ventoux, and that will push the average speed up compared to most other MTFs.

And the stage was done so fast they were like an hour ahead of schedule when they hit Ventoux. Then Ventoux was done superfast by Froome as well, despite the hard stage and extremely hard stage 2 days earlier.

Yet you didn't seemed as concerned when they climbed way faster in 2009. Heck, even Armstrong, in 2009, climbed faster than Froome. Also, Ventoux is perhaps the worst climb for comparisons of climbing times since it's so exposed. Just a little bit on wind will have really big impact on climbing times.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

hey guys I found an updated version of Brailsford's 2010 rider evaluation

lol! that graph just never gets old.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Froome's Ventoux stage win may have been one of the fastest ever for a HC mountain stage.

Didn't he climb that slower than a chunk of riders from 2009, including Kreuziger?

Hitch meant the stage as a whole, which was 230-ish kilometers of flats before Ventoux, and that will push the average speed up compared to most other MTFs.

And the stage was done so fast they were like an hour ahead of schedule when they hit Ventoux. Then Ventoux was done superfast by Froome as well, despite the hard stage and extremely hard stage 2 days earlier.

Yet you didn't seemed as concerned when they climbed way faster in 2009. Heck, even Armstrong, in 2009, climbed faster than Froome. Also, Ventoux is perhaps the worst climb for comparisons of climbing times since it's so exposed. Just a little bit on wind will have really big impact on climbing times.

Ok, time to put things into perspective:

2004: 55m:51s Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 56m:26s Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 56m:50s Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 56m:54s Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:33s Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1994: 57m:34s Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:34s Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
2004: 57m:39s Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
1999: 57m:42s Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
2004: 57m:49s Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:52s Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 58m:14s Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:15s Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:31s David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
2004: 58m:35s José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h - implicated doper (Op Puerto)
---------------Road stage times start now----------------
2009: 58m:45s Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
2009: 58m:45s Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:48s Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:50s Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:51s Unai Osa 21.92 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:53s Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h - implicated doper
2002: 59m:00s Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2013: 59m:00s Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
1994: 59m:02s Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1994: 59m:02s Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h

For the 1999 and 2004 ascents, Mont Ventoux was ridden as a 21.5 km individual time trial.

2009 was a whopping 167kms

1994 was 231km but ridden as a pass on the way to Carpentras

2013 was 241km, raced at breakneck speed and Froome's time is basically the same as two times Armstrong rode Ventoux as a road stage and FASTER than his drag race with Pantani in 2000 and you think it was done cleans....

Schleck and Contador hold the record for the fastest non-ITT ascent and Froome's only 15 seconds off!

Not sure if serious

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Walsh can claim it's trolling and his followers will back him, but notice he wouldn't dare take any legal action over a tweet such as this. It's the problem with social media really, Walsh has the loudest mic and can shut off other peoples mics when they join his discussion and he doesn't like it.

Anyone can block anyone on twitter though you can block Walsh if you want, the fact he has a loud mic is due to his fine record as a journalist, and who said anything about legal action. I thought you where smarter than this KB

Do not delete the post I reply to and you will see perfectly well why I referred to legal action. Here it is:

The fact that he blocks him with no rebuttal says it all. This is why laws against 'trolling' are idiotic: harassing and threatening people is already illegal, so it becomes a tool to maintain narrative for some agenda in a broad sense. Walsh is getting 'trolled' here.
Total joke.

It is clear that my response was a continuation of Supimilian's point and this is why legal action was mentioned. I was agreeing with Supimilian and pointing out that Walsh would never, never take any kind of action over a statement/question such as that made by FGL as it obviously isn't trolling.


I'm perfectly well aware that anyone can block anyone on twitter, that's not the discussion. The discussion is that, when challenged, a "respected" journalist such as Walsh will misdirect and block the challenger rather than answer him. FGL's question and point was perfectly legitimate. Walsh has used a set of criteria to vilify one rider and EXACTLY the same criteria when declaring another clean. That does not compute. A "respected" journalist shutting down a conversation rather than answer it? Doesn't sound like a journalist to me, it sounds like a shill.


Walsh has the loudest mic because he is a well known cycling journalist. Whether he is still respected is massively up for debate.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Walsh can claim it's trolling and his followers will back him, but notice he wouldn't dare take any legal action over a tweet such as this. It's the problem with social media really, Walsh has the loudest mic and can shut off other peoples mics when they join his discussion and he doesn't like it.

Anyone can block anyone on twitter though you can block Walsh if you want, the fact he has a loud mic is due to his fine record as a journalist, and who said anything about legal action. I thought you where smarter than this KB

You think peoples Twitter follower numbers are based on merit?

That wasn't the point. It was about the reference to the loudest mic. Of course Walsh will have a bigger audience interaction considering his line of work and his past record as a journalist. That's fact.

People might not agree with his opinions and are entitled to do so. Nevertheless he's entitled to block anyone he wishes and that power on twitter isn't beholden to a select few based on a position or stature they hold. Anyone can do so and it's not done either for the vast majority of time because of a tweet which may result in some potential legal action. That is a non-sequitur argument made by KB.

Please read my response to Del, and also read the post I was responding to so you don't take things out of context.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Just to clarify a few things, this is my first account on this forum. Secondly I believe in innocent until proven guilty and is why until evidence shows otherwise I believe Froome, Quintana, sky are clean, that is my opinion I am not trolling. However since this thread seems to be full of people thinking otherwise and my beliefs seem to be causing trouble I will refrain from posting on this specific thread.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Froome's Ventoux stage win may have been one of the fastest ever for a HC mountain stage.

Didn't he climb that slower than a chunk of riders from 2009, including Kreuziger?

Hitch meant the stage as a whole, which was 230-ish kilometers of flats before Ventoux, and that will push the average speed up compared to most other MTFs.

And the stage was done so fast they were like an hour ahead of schedule when they hit Ventoux. Then Ventoux was done superfast by Froome as well, despite the hard stage and extremely hard stage 2 days earlier.

Yet you didn't seemed as concerned when they climbed way faster in 2009.

You have a link for that? You do realize I've always called the 2009 tour the most doped gt of the millennium?

You are just trolling based on some misplaced bitterness towards contador fans which for some reason you are determined to paint me as, and a need to play out this you against the world, fantasy.

Why don't you go to the contador threads rather than keep making this one about berto. Worried that no one will respond, since everyone accepts he doped? I'm sure you can think of some baits that will catch people. youve been good enough at it in the past.

Whatever grudge you have against me, trying to paint me as someone who thinks contador is clean, are the tactics of an emotional 5 year old who is determined to adjust the facts into a precreated black and white view of the world.

 

[42x16ss]

See my post up the page, Froome's only 15 seconds slower than Schleck and Contador in 09 and that stage was only 167kms. I think some people are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Ok, time to put things into perspective:

2004: 55m:51s Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 56m:26s Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 56m:50s Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 56m:54s Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:33s Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1994: 57m:34s Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:34s Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
2004: 57m:39s Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
1999: 57m:42s Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
2004: 57m:49s Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 57m:52s Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2004: 58m:14s Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:15s Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:31s David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
2004: 58m:35s José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h - implicated doper (Op Puerto)
---------------Road stage times start now----------------
2009: 58m:45s Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
2009: 58m:45s Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:48s Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:50s Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1999: 58m:51s Unai Osa 21.92 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2009: 58m:53s Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h - implicated doper
2002: 59m:00s Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h - Confirmed Doper
2013: 59m:00s Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
1994: 59m:02s Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h - Confirmed Doper
1994: 59m:02s Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h

For the 1999 and 2004 ascents, Mont Ventoux was ridden as a 21.5 km individual time trial.

2009 was a whopping 167kms

1994 was 231km but ridden as a pass on the way to Carpentras

2013 was 241km, raced at breakneck speed and Froome's time is basically the same as two times Armstrong rode Ventoux as a road stage and FASTER than his drag race with Pantani in 2000 and you think it was done cleans....

Schleck and Contador hold the record for the fastest non-ITT ascent and Froome's only 15 seconds off!

Not sure if serious

Just to clarify, I was not making a point of Froome being clean. I am very well aware of that his time is right up there with dozens of proven dopers.

I was getting at Hitch for his SKY hate. He is coming down on SKY/Froome any way he can and back in the days he had no problem with Contador. And I know he is no fan of Contador but it's weird that you'd give one rider a pass (when he was dominating in an even more absurd facing than Froome) and yet come down on SKY so hard as he does.

I am no Froome fan, though I do enjoy him wining since it pisses of the fanboys (not talking about you Hitch). I am a Robert Gesink man. I cheer for him very time. And I do it because I believe he is clean.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

See my post up the page, Froome's only 15 seconds slower than Schleck and Contador in 09 and that stage was only 167kms. I think some people are being deliberately obtuse.

I believe the next move would be to bring up the magical tailwind.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

See my post up the page, Froome's only 15 seconds slower than Schleck and Contador in 09 and that stage was only 167kms. I think some people are being deliberately obtuse.

I believe the next move would be to bring up the magical tailwind.

Ah yes! Failsfraud's magical tailwind machine

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

See my post up the page, Froome's only 15 seconds slower than Schleck and Contador in 09 and that stage was only 167kms. I think some people are being deliberately obtuse.

I believe the next move would be to bring up the magical tailwind.

Ah yes! Failsfraud's magical tailwind machine

Sounds like Sky have employed Dr. Seuss!

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

The point is he grew up without a cycling culture. You think a proper coach in his early years wouldn't have corrected his form? even if you leave out his form he is awkward in the peloton. learned at 20 what most European kids learn in their first years on a bike. Have you seen the roads in Kenya? I haven't been to south Africa but cant imagine they are much better. from a cycling point of view he grew up poor. and as far as being rich he grew up in what we Americans would refer to as a lower middle class family. Single parent low income.

I thought Froome and his brothers went to a private school with a 30,000$ annual tuition fee? Where did that money come from?

Froome's brothers went to a private school in England(which costs around £33,000 pa) and Froome went to one in South Africa(not sure how much that costs). But I'm guessing Mr and Mrs Froome were dropping around £70-£80,000 a year on school fees. So very much a lower middle class family.

 

[Froomster]

Re: Re:

They mean the TT.

Who knew we were looking at 2 future TdF Champs
Geraint next?

Sack the uniform designers. Seriously, what were they thinking?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Never mind the kits, Froome looks like an entirely different person he looks like a fat Jack Bobridge

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Never mind the kits, Froome looks like an entirely different person he looks like a fat Jack Bobridge

That's what badzilla does to a person. Thank goodness he's now cured of it and looks like a normal healthy person.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

Who knew we were looking at 2 future TdF Champs
Geraint next?

Well, the opening post of this thread I stumbled on from around the time of the 2009 Giro is spookily prescient on that score: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=983&p=15551&hilit=froome#p15551


Britain needs a climbing sensation... especially if Team Sky is to win the Tour with a British rider. Anyone think Wiggins could change his style enough? or is there someone else out there now in the pro ranks who could fill this niche?

Chris Froome?

 

[The Hitch]

Was that Brailsfrauds account?

Still, someone should tweet that to Walsh. He'll have proof for his next book that the cycling world always saw Wiggins and Froome as contenders.

 

[The Hitch]

Looking at that thread there are some funny comments. Especially from Wiggo's lifelong number 1 fan - dimspace.

Dont mistake someone who can sing a couple of tunes, for a potenial pop star

Of course the second Wiggo actually became a gt contender dim changed his view and militantly defends wiggos cleanliness to this day. Apparently some people at Sky have told him wiggo is clean so he knows 100%.

This one is also hillarious

wiggins has already put forward his points of view on this, more training as he has been doing less track riding, working on diet etc, and also the fact that he feels in a cleaner pelaton he is more able to compete on an equal level..

This is the 2009 Giro we are talking about.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

What a joke!

 

[the sceptic]

this guy is a sick joke. Someone call the french police.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

this guy is a sick joke. Someone call the french police.

+1. Tour to become unwatchable in 2 days.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Insane.