Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

It must be killing Murdoch that the British public dont give a hoot about plastic brit Froome. He has no connection to this country at all - rides for a british team but never steps foot in the country.

Nah seen him in Yorkshire in 2014

More seriously I have no idea how much time he spends in Britain, however from Guardian

“I would say it’s a bit early to say 100% but I think that could potentially be on the cards, certainly,” said Froome upon his return to London.

His parents/grand parents where British so he feels British,

He's more British than Wiggins as both his parents are from the UK, whereas Wiggins' dad was from Australia. Both were born outside of the UK, although from memory Wiggins moved back here when he was 3 (or something).

I would say Wiggins is more British than Froome tbh. Seeing as though he's lived here most of his life and still lives here.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And rode for British Cycling for 100s of years.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

quintana = smaller, meaning smaller skeleton, smaller organs = lighter weight

however disadvantage on itt

Agreed. that lighter weight is more efficiently proportioned to muscle vs dead weight like ligaments and tendons and bone and skin.

i'd be interested in the difference in heat generation he has to deal with vs surface area for heat shunting but not sure on the formula for that comparison with the heavier but also larger surface area'd froome. This relates to absolute power generation.

A smaller body can dissapate heat better: a smaller body has a larger surface to volume ratio (as you get bigger, your volume increases by the cube, while surface area by the square; ratio decreases). I don't think a formula exists, mostly because heat loss is tied too much into other factors like efficiency, hydration/nutrition, adaptability to heat (sweating more), and wind. I could be wrong

Before one of the mountain stages, JV made a bold claim on twitter saying just the opposite. That and a now deleted (I think) tweet about changing your VO2 max with training, were some JVisms that weren't just pseudo science, but just totally wrong science.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

quintana = smaller, meaning smaller skeleton, smaller organs = lighter weight

however disadvantage on itt

Agreed. that lighter weight is more efficiently proportioned to muscle vs dead weight like ligaments and tendons and bone and skin.

i'd be interested in the difference in heat generation he has to deal with vs surface area for heat shunting but not sure on the formula for that comparison with the heavier but also larger surface area'd froome. This relates to absolute power generation.

A smaller body can dissapate heat better: a smaller body has a larger surface to volume ratio (as you get bigger, your volume increases by the cube, while surface area by the square; ratio decreases). I don't think a formula exists, mostly because heat loss is tied too much into other factors like efficiency, hydration/nutrition, adaptability to heat (sweating more), and wind. I could be wrong

Before one of the mountain stages, JV made a bold claim on twitter saying just the opposite. That and a now deleted (I think) tweet about changing your VO2 max with training, were some JVisms that weren't just pseudo science, but just totally wrong science.

Thanks More Strides. Intuition told me that was the case, good to put some simple formulae to it.

JV did similar "wrong science" in his TED talk, so I am not surprised. I am blocked now, and will happily pay for screen shots of similar tweets.

Thanks!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You can change your untrained VO2max with training yeah? Or was he talking about your genetic limit? Or meaning your relative VO2max?

 

[Catwhoorg]

VO2 max in most people can be increased with training.

Some people (legitimately) super-respond, and some don't get any increase at all, when you factor in weight loss.

In fact I recall a runners world article about the majority of VO2max increase seen in recreational athletes was down to weight loss, but that site has been hack about so much in the last couple of years, and I cannot find it anymore. It used to be pretty decent, now its clickbait links and pop-up ads.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

There is a reason why Bjarne Riis is/was seen as a total over the top EPO - goat, same counds for Froome. There is a rule in cycling: dont overdo it.

Nice one.

Yeah, I have been reading a lot of Brit press lately, playing with words seems to be very popular.

Yep. Not as much as outright lying though.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

It must be killing Murdoch that the British public dont give a hoot about plastic brit Froome. He has no connection to this country at all - rides for a british team but never steps foot in the country.

Nah seen him in Yorkshire in 2014

More seriously I have no idea how much time he spends in Britain, however from Guardian

“I would say it’s a bit early to say 100% but I think that could potentially be on the cards, certainly,” said Froome upon his return to London.

His parents/grand parents where British so he feels British,

Froome changes whether he feels British or African depending on the press opportunity. Right now he wants to cash in on that blind nationalism as much as possible so is covering himself in the Union Jack.

Same in 2007-2008 when he wanted a Brit license.

However, when it comes to explaining his transformation suddenly he's fully African. It allows him to play on sterotypes of Africa as a backward continent to make up fake reasons for why he wasn't able to produce half as many watts now as he has since meeting Jullich and Lienders.

Its so pathetic and extreme how far he will go to do this, in his book he basically rejects his real Father - "I know thee not old man fall to thy prayers" and replaces him with an African - Kinjah.

He doesn't even refer to his real father as "Dad", the way he refers to his Mum as "Mum". He instead refers to his real father as Noz - like a stranger, and hardly ever mentions him. Even when he is living with his father for months its just "I was living with Noz".

Kinjah meanwhile is the first character introduced in the book and the 2nd last mentioned at the end - behind Cound. He appears in about half the photographs Froome shows, is by far the most cited character, gets mentioned as some sort of inspiration in every chapter, teaches Froome everything he knows about life and cycling etc.

Its hillarious. But all just PR

 

[Saint Unix]

What kind of a name is Noz Froome?

Sounds like some sort of teeny-bopper hair product or foreign soft drink or something.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Re: Re:

Froome changes whether he feels British or African depending on the press opportunity. Right now he wants to cash in on that blind nationalism as much as possible so is covering himself in the Union Jack.

Same in 2007-2008 when he wanted a Brit license.

However, when it comes to explaining his transformation suddenly he's fully African. It allows him to play on sterotypes of Africa as a backward continent to make up fake reasons for why he wasn't able to produce half as many watts now as he has since meeting Jullich and Lienders.

Its so pathetic and extreme how far he will go to do this, in his book he basically rejects his real Father - "I know thee not old man fall to thy prayers" and replaces him with an African - Kinjah.

He doesn't even refer to his real father as "Dad", the way he refers to his Mum as "Mum". He instead refers to his real father as Noz - like a stranger, and hardly ever mentions him. Even when he is living with his father for months its just "I was living with Noz".

Kinjah meanwhile is the first character introduced in the book and the 2nd last mentioned at the end - behind Cound. He appears in about half the photographs Froome shows, is by far the most cited character, gets mentioned as some sort of inspiration in every chapter, teaches Froome everything he knows about life and cycling etc.

Its hillarious. But all just PR

Is that not a hysterical reaction to a bit of PR? You're able to extract profound psychological insight into a father-son relationship from a widely derided stocking filler/book?

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

What kind of a name is Noz Froome?

Sounds like some sort of teeny-bopper hair product or foreign soft drink or something.

Its not his name.

He gave him a non human name to further detach himself from the Father, so that Kinjah can play the father and Froome the Muzzuguw (or whatever swahili word it is that froome keeps referring to himself as)

 

[Rob27172]

Is that not a hysterical reaction to a bit of PR? You're able to extract profound psychological insight into a father-son relationship from a widely derided stocking filler/book?

I wouldn't say it was over the top to deduce a persons relationship status with their real or adoptive parents by referring to their own authorised biography.

If it was a ghost written book with no Froome input or authority that is one thing but if it is backed by the athlete and presented by him as a reflection of his life it is not outrageous to draw some conclusions from it.
I also wouldn't suggest that his flip flop arguments as to his influence and nationality or his father son relationship attitudes are profound insights.

If the post was drawing some conclusions as to his feelings of abandonment and need to cheat to prove his self worth to those that have left his life - that might be profound. but what was posted is not profound in my eyes. Simply a statement of fact.

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

Froome changes whether he feels British or African depending on the press opportunity. Right now he wants to cash in on that blind nationalism as much as possible so is covering himself in the Union Jack.

Same in 2007-2008 when he wanted a Brit license.

However, when it comes to explaining his transformation suddenly he's fully African. It allows him to play on sterotypes of Africa as a backward continent to make up fake reasons for why he wasn't able to produce half as many watts now as he has since meeting Jullich and Lienders.

Its so pathetic and extreme how far he will go to do this, in his book he basically rejects his real Father - "I know thee not old man fall to thy prayers" and replaces him with an African - Kinjah.

He doesn't even refer to his real father as "Dad", the way he refers to his Mum as "Mum". He instead refers to his real father as Noz - like a stranger, and hardly ever mentions him. Even when he is living with his father for months its just "I was living with Noz".

Kinjah meanwhile is the first character introduced in the book and the 2nd last mentioned at the end - behind Cound. He appears in about half the photographs Froome shows, is by far the most cited character, gets mentioned as some sort of inspiration in every chapter, teaches Froome everything he knows about life and cycling etc.

Its hillarious. But all just PR

Is that not a hysterical reaction to a bit of PR? You're able to extract profound psychological insight into a father-son relationship from a widely derided stocking filler/book?

Not the first time this has been done in the last week or so.

We pretty much got from "kid has a bit of fun feeding an animal to a snake" to "adult is a dangerous cynical sociopath" on a similar basis.

The conclusions may well be true but not on the basis of what's been presented. But, if it fits the perceived narrative, you can make what you want from anything.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

You can change your untrained VO2max with training yeah? Or was he talking about your genetic limit? Or meaning your relative VO2max?

My last post on JV. I forgot what thread I was in.

I assumed JV was talking about riders in the peloton, so well-trained.

You can change your V02 Max by loosing weight but that is a marginal change (and also to a certain point before you just can't put out power...). At a Vo2max of 70, a 70kg athlete loosing 2kg brings his Vo2 just over 72,. The measurement itself will also change depending on how much you're willing to commit to the test. To be fair, looking back again shows that JV was talking about changing the measured value, as opposed to actually changing your body's ability to pump oxygen. I agree with him there, in that the innate ability may not change while the numbers do, because of weight, testing effort, and exercise protocol. (Which is how I feel about demands for Froome's Vo2 tests. 80-ish as he remembers it is good enough for me. The issue of the test is itself more indicative of contractions by sky: "Oh, we'll test him" "...okay, nevermind, media is gone now.")

Here's the heat dissipation tweet. I sent JV a screenshot of Dave Epsteins book in reply, showing the opposite. Epstein got in the conversation saying the same thing...

 

[gooner]

Read multiples articles on this and seen a couple of documentaries on Froome and to me, his relationship with Kinjah looked a genuine one. That friendship was well known before his book was published.

Of course when his autobiography is written, being born in Kenya and raised in Africa would be a big section of his story. It was a huge chunk of his life. Only in the clinic and in some bizarre world would someone come to the conclusion that the reason for mentioning these experiences is to somehow distance himself from Leinders, Julich and his transformation. And to use his fathers relationship which by all intents and purposes mightn't have been ideal by the sounds of the things, to get your point across is nothing short of cheap and distasteful.

Perspective.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I understand correctly. Are you saying you reckon he was doping all along at Sky and it's only because he lost ~7kg coming in to the Vuelta that he suddenly performed like he'd never performed before?

It was a confluence of multiple factors coming together over a period of his pro career, that immediate 12 racing calendar, and the weightloss and upped doping plan. They all dovetailed in a perfect harmony

 

[BYOP88]

Read multiples articles on this and seen a couple of documentaries on Froome and to me, his relationship with Kinjah looked a genuine one. That friendship was well known before his book was published.

Of course when his autobiography is written, being born in Kenya and raised in Africa would be a big section of his story. It was a huge chunk of his life. Only in the clinic and in some bizarre world would someone come to the conclusion that the reason for mentioning these experiences is to somehow distance himself from Leinders, Julich and his transformation. And to use his fathers relationship which by all intents and purposes mightn't have been ideal by the sounds of the things, to get your point across is nothing short of cheap and distasteful.

Perspective.

I thought you were done in here JG?

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Froome changes whether he feels British or African depending on the press opportunity. Right now he wants to cash in on that blind nationalism as much as possible so is covering himself in the Union Jack.

Same in 2007-2008 when he wanted a Brit license.

However, when it comes to explaining his transformation suddenly he's fully African. It allows him to play on sterotypes of Africa as a backward continent to make up fake reasons for why he wasn't able to produce half as many watts now as he has since meeting Jullich and Lienders.

Its so pathetic and extreme how far he will go to do this, in his book he basically rejects his real Father - "I know thee not old man fall to thy prayers" and replaces him with an African - Kinjah.

He doesn't even refer to his real father as "Dad", the way he refers to his Mum as "Mum". He instead refers to his real father as Noz - like a stranger, and hardly ever mentions him. Even when he is living with his father for months its just "I was living with Noz".

Kinjah meanwhile is the first character introduced in the book and the 2nd last mentioned at the end - behind Cound. He appears in about half the photographs Froome shows, is by far the most cited character, gets mentioned as some sort of inspiration in every chapter, teaches Froome everything he knows about life and cycling etc.

Its hillarious. But all just PR

Is that not a hysterical reaction to a bit of PR? You're able to extract profound psychological insight into a father-son relationship from a widely derided stocking filler/book?

I know plenty of people who associate themselves with more than one country (as I do). He sees himself as a Brit through his bloodline, but as an African through birth and upbringing. Whats wrong with that?

I'm a Brit - born in England to Welsh / Welsh-Italian parents. When it comes to Rugby, I am Welsh - until they are out, then I am English, until they are out and then I am Italian (although its rare they last longer!). When it comes to Football I am generally English (mainly because Wales are pants).

Also - if you were in his situation and were passionate / driven to get in to your favourite sport for a career and had a choice between a major country that had multiple £m and a minor country that had jack what would you do? Are you seriously saying you would stick with the lesser one??

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

You can change your untrained VO2max with training yeah? Or was he talking about your genetic limit? Or meaning your relative VO2max?

My last post on JV. I forgot what thread I was in.

I assumed JV was talking about riders in the peloton, so well-trained.

You can change your V02 Max by loosing weight but that is a marginal change (and also to a certain point before you just can't put out power...). At a Vo2max of 70, a 70kg athlete loosing 2kg brings his Vo2 just over 72,. The measurement itself will also change depending on how much you're willing to commit to the test. To be fair, looking back again shows that JV was talking about changing the measured value, as opposed to actually changing your body's ability to pump oxygen. I agree with him there, in that the innate ability may not change while the numbers do, because of weight, testing effort, and exercise protocol. (Which is how I feel about demands for Froome's Vo2 tests. 80-ish as he remembers it is good enough for me. The issue of the test is itself more indicative of contractions by sky: "Oh, we'll test him" "...okay, nevermind, media is gone now.")

Here's the heat dissipation tweet. I sent JV a screenshot of Dave Epsteins book in reply, showing the opposite. Epstein got in the conversation saying the same thing...

Thank you for that. Much appreciated.

 

[armchairclimber]

Pre-vuelta there was weight loss. Also significant and not entirely unconnected was a visit to his Doctor in Kenya (covered earlier in this thread) to be treated for Badzilla. Part of that treatment was to also take Prednisolone. This also happened to coincide with his desperation to earn a new contract. My hypothesis is that the combination of weight loss and Pred brought about a dramatic improvement in performance in training. A light bullb went on and the rest is history.
Check out the list of side effects that accompany pred use and then look at Froome at the Vuelta...skin, coughing etc.

I don't think it is any coincidence that it was for Prednisolone that he needed an emergency TUE at Romandie. If you add to this the use of an inhaler for a mysterious case of asthma, also legitimised by the UCI and you have the picture of someone who isn't averse to taking PEDs (if they can get away with it/keep it just within the rules).
What's the betting that he is also on meds for hypothyroidism? Out of competition of course.

I actually don't think he's blood doping. Steroids and messing with endocrine meds more likely.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Pre-vuelta there was weight loss. Also significant and not entirely unconnected was a visit to his Doctor in Kenya (covered earlier in this thread) to be treated for Badzilla. Part of that treatment was to also take Prednisolone. This also happened to coincide with his desperation to earn a new contract. My hypothesis is that the combination of weight loss and Pred brought about a dramatic improvement in performance in training. A light bullb went on and the rest is history.
Check out the list of side effects that accompany pred use and then look at Froome at the Vuelta...skin, coughing etc.

I don't think it is any coincidence that it was for Prednisolone that he needed an emergency TUE at Romandie. If you add to this the use of an inhaler for a mysterious case of asthma, also legitimised by the UCI and you have the picture of someone who isn't averse to taking PEDs (if they can get away with it/keep it just within the rules).
What's the betting that he is also on meds for hypothyroidism? Out of competition of course.

I actually don't think he's blood doping. Steroids and messing with endocrine meds more likely.

What are the drugs for hypothyroidsim? I googled and got some (levothyroxine) but its not on the Wada list, nor is any reference to 'roid' in Thyroid terms.

 

[Benotti69]

So Froome might be open to doing some physiology tests to show how he is naturally the best athlete in the sport.

MailOnline Sport ‏@MailSport Jul 14

Froome vows to prove he's clean after epic victory | @Matt_Lawton_DM http://dailym.ai/1M4r5dZ

well guess what?

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 4 hours ago

Major pieces on Brailsford and @TeamSky in @MailSport @TelegraphSport and @TimesSport
today. No mention of the promised physiological tests


Shane Stokes ‏@SSbike 1 hour ago
@PaulKimmage I asked Chris Froome at the Saturday press conference, he said then he didn't know anything about such tests. Confusing

Now can any skyfans enlighten the clinic why Froome would tell such lies?

I can. He's a doper.

 

[Tyr]

Re: Re:

Pre-vuelta there was weight loss. Also significant and not entirely unconnected was a visit to his Doctor in Kenya (covered earlier in this thread) to be treated for Badzilla. Part of that treatment was to also take Prednisolone. This also happened to coincide with his desperation to earn a new contract. My hypothesis is that the combination of weight loss and Pred brought about a dramatic improvement in performance in training. A light bullb went on and the rest is history.
Check out the list of side effects that accompany pred use and then look at Froome at the Vuelta...skin, coughing etc.

I don't think it is any coincidence that it was for Prednisolone that he needed an emergency TUE at Romandie. If you add to this the use of an inhaler for a mysterious case of asthma, also legitimised by the UCI and you have the picture of someone who isn't averse to taking PEDs (if they can get away with it/keep it just within the rules).
What's the betting that he is also on meds for hypothyroidism? Out of competition of course.

I actually don't think he's blood doping. Steroids and messing with endocrine meds more likely.

What are the drugs for hypothyroidsim? I googled and got some (levothyroxine) but its not on the Wada list, nor is any reference to 'roid' in Thyroid terms.

Thyroid produces hormones called T3 and T4, levothyroxine is synthetic form of T4 and it would be in the list if it was prohibited.
I guess they control T3 and T4 via the biologic passport, those values can vary quite a bit even without exogenic supplementation.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

Pre-vuelta there was weight loss. Also significant and not entirely unconnected was a visit to his Doctor in Kenya (covered earlier in this thread) to be treated for Badzilla. Part of that treatment was to also take Prednisolone. This also happened to coincide with his desperation to earn a new contract. My hypothesis is that the combination of weight loss and Pred brought about a dramatic improvement in performance in training. A light bullb went on and the rest is history.
Check out the list of side effects that accompany pred use and then look at Froome at the Vuelta...skin, coughing etc.

I don't think it is any coincidence that it was for Prednisolone that he needed an emergency TUE at Romandie. If you add to this the use of an inhaler for a mysterious case of asthma, also legitimised by the UCI and you have the picture of someone who isn't averse to taking PEDs (if they can get away with it/keep it just within the rules).
What's the betting that he is also on meds for hypothyroidism? Out of competition of course.

I actually don't think he's blood doping. Steroids and messing with endocrine meds more likely.

What are the drugs for hypothyroidsim? I googled and got some (levothyroxine) but its not on the Wada list, nor is any reference to 'roid' in Thyroid terms.

Have a look at what Salazar has been up to. There seems to be a high incidence of hypothyroidism amongst NOP athletes. Galen Rupp being one. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323550604578412913149043072

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

So Froome might be open to doing some physiology tests to show how he is naturally the best athlete in the sport.

MailOnline Sport ‏@MailSport Jul 14

Froome vows to prove he's clean after epic victory | @Matt_Lawton_DM http://dailym.ai/1M4r5dZ

well guess what?

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 4 hours ago

Major pieces on Brailsford and @TeamSky in @MailSport @TelegraphSport and @TimesSport
today. No mention of the promised physiological tests


Shane Stokes ‏@SSbike 1 hour ago
@PaulKimmage I asked Chris Froome at the Saturday press conference, he said then he didn't know anything about such tests. Confusing

Now can any skyfans enlighten the clinic why Froome would tell such lies?

I can. He's a doper.

Kimmage predicts this, saying it was all show for the TdF and there will be no follow up an interview which was linked here. On Soundcloud IIRC.