Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[simoni]

2015 Tour de France, a record gap

Good article from L'Equipe

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Tour-de-france-2015-des-ecarts-records/577110

The 17th, Roman Kreuziger, is more than an hour of Froome ....Only six riders finished in the same time the Tour de France 2015. Not since 1997 and only triumph of Jan Ullrich to find traces of such skimming. And 1969 to do better than 1h16'13 '' difference between Chris Froome and the twentieth General, Jan Bakelants!

I'm still not sure what this statistic is meant to infer other than it doesn't happen very often?

It did motivate me to look at the results however and the time gaps from 10th through to 20th are very very odd! Numbers, eh?

 

[Benotti69]

Numbers eh? Sky and JV with their numbers? speeds are down, looking at every detail to get the maximum % from marginal gains...number eh!

 

[skyjersey]

General cycling news

Who else is pissed off about froome being labelled a cheat?

 

[jmdirt]

I'm not "pissed off", but I find it lame. Many people will forever call the winner a cheat (clinic). Froome seems to get more of it than others though. If he's a cheat then so are the rest. No my head isn't in the sand, but its not up my ars either.

 

[Tommy79]

The blanket cynicism seems to be more of a threat to the sport than doping was 10 years ago. It's a shame.

But I don't think the BS on here and social media is a true reflection of the majority real world opinions.

 

[frenchfry]

Re: General cycling news

Who else is pissed off about froome being labelled a cheat?

Would you prefer bunny killer?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: General cycling news

Who else is pissed off about froome being labelled a cheat?

Would you prefer bunny killer?

That was a greater crime than his doping.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

The blanket cynicism seems to be more of a threat to the sport than doping was 10 years ago. It's a shame.

That's just truly stunning stuff. Victim-blaming, head-in-the-sand genius stuff. Never quite seen anyone go there before. Congratulations.

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

The blanket cynicism seems to be more of a threat to the sport than doping was 10 years ago. It's a shame.

That's just truly stunning stuff. Victim-blaming, head-in-the-sand genius stuff. Never quite seen anyone go there before. Congratulations.

I wasn't blaming Froome?

 

[galibier]

I'm a long time lurker, and reckon that Sky and Froome are "not normal".

However, I don't understand why Froome made the sudden jump at the 2011 Vuelta. Why at that relatively late point in the season?

If we accept that the bilharzia story is nonsense does this mean that he doped on his own, and then confessed to Sky management?
Or was it that he was anti-doping up to that point, and he finally succumbed to Sky management's pleas to get with the doping programme?
Or some other reason.

Apologies if this has been addressed earlier. It it has, I'd appreciate a link to the relevant thread / post.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

I'm not "pissed off", but I find it lame. Many people will forever call the winner a cheat (clinic). Froome seems to get more of it than others though. If he's a cheat then so are the rest. No my head isn't in the sand, but its not up my ars either.

Go and look at the palmares of this years top 4 protagonists..spot the odd one out

then compare and contrast with SKYs other GT winner...another odd one out

that's basically why he gets more of it.......they may all be cheats but he is the only one we have to suspend rationale thought for.........

although to be fair I could compile quite a list...........

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

I'm a long time lurker, and reckon that Sky and Froome are "not normal".

However, I don't understand why Froome made the sudden jump at the 2011 Vuelta. Why at that relatively late point in the season?

If we accept that the bilharzia story is nonsense does this mean that he doped on his own, and then confessed to Sky management?
Or was it that he was anti-doping up to that point, and he finally succumbed to Sky management's pleas to get with the doping programme?
Or some other reason.

Apologies if this has been addressed earlier. It it has, I'd appreciate a link to the relevant thread / post.

most likely explanation is he was working with Lienders on a 'chicken-type' program and it worked to an extraordinary degree..probably more than they even thought was possible...and et viola..He has been on it ever since.....whilst I have no evidence for this I would not be surprised if he was still working with Lienders......potentially though a proxy...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: General cycling news

Who else is pissed off about froome being labelled a cheat?

Pretty much every account that was created this month, it seems.

 

[Lyon]

Re:

everyone knew who Armstrong was you fool

Not Wiggins and Hushovd. Their protestant work ethic forbade them to know.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

I'm a long time lurker, and reckon that Sky and Froome are "not normal".

However, I don't understand why Froome made the sudden jump at the 2011 Vuelta. Why at that relatively late point in the season?

If we accept that the bilharzia story is nonsense does this mean that he doped on his own, and then confessed to Sky management?
Or was it that he was anti-doping up to that point, and he finally succumbed to Sky management's pleas to get with the doping programme?
Or some other reason.

Apologies if this has been addressed earlier. It it has, I'd appreciate a link to the relevant thread / post.

My speculation is that he did in fact do it on his own. His results put pressure on Sky/BC to pull him into the fold. You couldn't have Froomey messing up the script of Wiggins winning the Tour then the Olympics. Can't really have someone like that turning a positive with the entire script still to be played out, so into the fold he came. Which turned out not so well for Wiggins in the post-Olympics scenario. Couldn't really have Froome going rogue about the whole operation, so he got his.

That would be my guess as to how it played out. Of course that's all wild speculation.

 

[Dalakhani]

Re:

I'm a long time lurker, and reckon that Sky and Froome are "not normal".

However, I don't understand why Froome made the sudden jump at the 2011 Vuelta. Why at that relatively late point in the season?

Interesting question.

My theory about Sky is that after an abysmal first year as a clean team, they had 3 choices: close the team down, continued failure, or doping.

They then hired Leinders.

Wiggins had "improved" pretty much by the start of the season. Froome also had some good domestique results in the first part of the season.

Why improve so much prior to the Vuelta?

I've long regarded the Vuelta as a doper's race (just look at some recent winners). If testing is lax during the Vuelta, did Sky put Froome on a special "push the envelope" programme for the race, to see what would happen?

 

[Cycle Chic]

any links to the Italian, Belgian, Dutch newspapers and what they are saying about Froome

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I've long regarded the Vuelta as a doper's race (just look at some recent winners). If testing is lax during the Vuelta, did Sky put Froome on a special "push the envelope" programme for the race, to see what would happen?

This is an important question that I've never been able to answer satisfactorily.

I see two main possibilities:
a) Froome was put on the A-team program for the Vuelta because Wiggins, who needed to salvage his season, needed mountain domestiques. After all, Sky only had Löfkvist, Possoni and Cioni as passable climbers. But no matter how much Wiggins needed him, it would be an odd and risky move. After all, it didn't look like he was staying in the team.
b) Froome did his own thang for the 2011 Vuelta and, when proven to be a superresponder, was accepted into the A-team and his program was further refined for 2012.

All in all, I think b would be more likely. But it's still a tricky one, and it certainly undermines the team doping vibe.

 

[blackcat]

no, Froome always doped, like the rest of Sky. everyone dopes. The big changer was the weightloss, and the recovery doping during races, with the medical support, most likely transfusions, or minimum of Edgar microdosing.

The only reason Sky outperformed was, they were all for one, and one for all, a superior team, and a superior support staff and medical team. And this starts in October. The planning and starting is not June. Its 8 months earlier.

Froome at the 2011 Vuelta was playing for his spot, and he got on the lipotropin or the weightloss peptide whatever it is, and rendered about 7* kg of functional muscle mass from his physique. did not he get the late call up (prolly was lobbying hard for the 9th man, and put it all on the line)

*** what is so astounding, as sans dope, his 71kg was functional muscle mass, but he rendered about 6kg, and still put out the same power. Obviously his legs and upperbody and face were much much leaner. But before, they had no surplus weight.

= #NOTNORMAL

 

[blackcat]

Re:

any links to the Italian, Belgian, Dutch newspapers and what they are saying about Froome

i doubt they will say anything. The French might say something in code. No one will say anything overt. there will be the script for hagiography and apotheosis. potentially, the French might be French and write something in code.

 

[blackcat]

and vroom would not have been given any help during the 2011 vuelta, you are looking at cound doing an edita rumsas and motowoman.

 

[hrotha]

Where did I say they were necessarily clean before 2011? I only mentioned an A-team program. Kohl was doping long before 2008, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a clear change in 2008, when he got on a 5-star program.

I don't think it's as simple as just losing weight artificially in Froome's case.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Wiggins had "improved" pretty much by the start of the season. Froome also had some good domestique results in the first part of the season.

Wigans had first jumped at the Giro in about 2009 with Garmin. He was a $h!tload lighter, obviously on the peptide, and he was climbing with the heads of state, and finished top 10 on GC. I dont think he won the chrono or chronos plural tho. pls correct me.

So Wigans was well on his way before the Sky train.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Where did I say they were necessarily clean before 2011? I only mentioned an A-team program. Kohl was doping long before 2008, but that doesn't mean there was a clear change in 2008, when he got on a 5-star program.

I don't think it's as simple as just losing weight artificially in Froome's case.

fair point.

When was Kohl's second in Dauphine? 2005?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I don't think it's as simple as just losing weight artificially in Froome's case.

Its both, the weightloss and the A star program. And I do think he could have had a blizharia for one year. And then his racing program was not ideal for about 4 years at Barloworld under Corti then at Sky.

All of those things added up to a skewed perspective.