Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Lyon]

So Froome isn't just a physical beast, he is also a morally superior specimen - a beacon of light in an age of darkness. He also has the patience of a saint, waiting and biding his time, a secret influence on the peloton, until finally the day came when all the rest saw the error in their ways, grabbed the showel of truth and buried their stash of bad intent in the dessert.

We get it now, the new generation in cycling is a species of supermen, physically and mentally superior to all that has come before them. Flock around good people and hear the gospel! A miracle is happening before our eyes! He came unto his own and they that where his own received him not.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

I dont know exactly what was the most important factor to Froome good operformance in Burgos, but I know that to do that you dont need doping, I know that for sure, and he would improve as he did. sometimes a lot of factors happens together.
Was was impossible if the jump that santambroglio did, becouse it was a different case to Froome. of course if you change the team and you become a leader, you are going to improve a lot in term of results, but he improved a lot in term of performance.. that is not the same.

Wait, and Froome improved less in terms of performance
Santambrogio went from decent domestique on a big team to good leader on a smaller team
Froome went from mediocre domestique on a big team to the best GT rider in the world, still as a domestique and still for the same team

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I dont know exactly what was the most important factor to Froome good operformance in Burgos, but I know that to do that you dont need doping, I know that for sure, and he would improve as he did. sometimes a lot of factors happens together.
Was was impossible if the jump that santambroglio did, becouse it was a different case to Froome. of course if you change the team and you become a leader, you are going to improve a lot in term of results, but he improved a lot in term of performance.. that is not the same.

Wait, and Froome improved less in terms of performance
Santambrogio went from decent domestique on a big team to good leader on a smaller team
Froome went from mediocre domestique on a big team to the best GT rider in the world, still as a domestique and still for the same team

Decent domestique?

He wanst the best domestique previous year for Evans and next year he started to climb with the best, he was already 29 with a long trayectory, it is a case very different to Froome, Froome needed tolear a lot, it was a cycling to make, or to pulish, he was yopung in terms on cycling, although he was 26 already. it is very differente at the 29 of Santa.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

So Froome isn't just a physical beast, he is also a morally superior specimen - a beacon of light in an age of darkness. He also has the patience of a saint, waiting and biding his time, a secret influence on the peloton, until finally the day came when all the rest saw the error in their ways, grabbed the showel of truth and buried their stash of bad intent in the dessert.

We get it now, the new generation in cycling is a species of supermen, physically and mentally superior to all that has come before them. Flock around good people and hear the gospel! A miracle is happening before our eyes! He came unto his own and they that where his own received him not.

For you and ironhead.

You want a answer, you need the answer, and I said that I dont know with factor was more important, but it doent matter if you believe him or not, his story is possible without diping and his performance are not suprlatives compared to the past.

It is not a question of:

He was a clean rider inside a peloton were 60 % were dirty, and when most of people were clean, he improved his result.

it is not a question of:

He starting cure his illness and he improved a lot

it is not a question of:

he learn a lot on that Vuelta of how to race to win besides Wiggins and he started to believes in his possibilities.

it is not a question of:

He was in the team with more capacity that can get the best of you, and that then, with the rest were still leaving doping, did a lot of new things others team didnt do, you can call thatmarginal gains or how you want, it is not just marginal gains, but he used oval plate and it is and adavantage other dont use.

It not a question of other factor that copuldnt take influence that are not illegal doping, but could be for instance TUEs.

But could be a mix of all of them.

But in the sport and more in cycling, there are sevral cases that riders that have capacity and started not too well and later in a race things go well and thay can the possibility to sow his potential and they do and his carrer change.

Of course that have happend in the past several times woth doping, but in a world without doping that would happen as well

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

But in the sport and more in cycling, there are sevral cases that riders that have capacity and started not too well and later in a race things go well and thay can the possibility to sow his potential and they do and his carrer change.

Of course that have happend in the past several times woth doping, but in a world without doping that would happen as well

Yes, in a world without doping, it could happen. But in the world that is pro cycling, a world with doping, and competing against dopers, it doesn't. Thank you for making our point.

 

[Taxus4a]

But what I cant understand is all that people that think that all of this a question than SKy have a secret and suddenly give him his magical treatment and he started to perfom well.. why on froome, he didnt take wery good result previously. (he did some good result, but more performance, but that kind of performance that people dont see), why not with gerrand, with Lokwist, with think that were considered more promising for most of cycling fans.. why with Froome that thay knew lot of people wouldnt rely?? Why not Thomas, or EBH?.. In fact they werent interested becouse as Froome said they needed to pay more for his new contract as days come though in la Vuelta and other teams offered more money for him.

Aaaaah, it wanst SKy, it was the UCI, UCi needed more credibility, they werent interesested in the rise of a man that peiople will doubt why not with Raffa chitioui, but anyway for reason unlogical and unknows UCi not just help him in aigle as a lot of riders form Africa and another countries without tradition, Froome has conetcion with the iluminati (i belive in that, so I am not joking about those things) and Rotchields wanted to protect this man and he will be the new champion.. (yes, the workd sometimes works out this way).

Ih SKy wanted Wiggins, not Froome.

But Froome must have a secret that any other have...there are a lot of evidence that today there are lees doping... and Hamilton said in his book that there was people wining clean in his era, but just a 3 weak rider was imposible to win even for the best riders clean, so, doping cant be now a superadvantage, and when is, like Santa, you get off...Maybe some people are cheating the systenm, but with a little advantage, if they are up, is becouse tey are good, although I hope if that happens (and I know that happens) those people get cautch and punished.

Yes I know that froome stiry is quite difficult to believe, but of course, the other stroy would be much more surprising for me.

Yes, Lance did something almost so amazing, but there is a difference, now everybody si aware that doesnt happens again, and now there are more weapons to fight against that.

but of course, is going to be people that dont belive anything, and in aprt that is good, it is a way to have a more clen cyling, i hope you be always there, becouse you are important, but that kind of insult, of assert and thing like that, dont have place, and Imo should be punished, Becouse one thing is not believe becouse you dont believe in a profgression that for you is not possible, and other thing is that is not possible and you are doing a very strong accusations against a true champion.

For much that cycling world wanted to protect to a new scandal.. scandal in cycling give a lot of money, and some people always would want to demostrate that... and if there is something, would come up, for sure. sooner or later.

Chears!

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

But in the sport and more in cycling, there are sevral cases that riders that have capacity and started not too well and later in a race things go well and thay can the possibility to sow his potential and they do and his carrer change.

Of course that have happend in the past several times woth doping, but in a world without doping that would happen as well

Yes, in a world without doping, it could happen. But in the world that is pro cycling, a world with doping, and competing against dopers, it doesn't. Thank you for making our point.

The problem is that if you makethe conclusion today this is a world of doping, even in protour, we start form different base. Thereis doping, but in the Wt, not in the level to change what I said.

if you know that there are people as basso, Ulle, that were in the OP, and they get a treatment that is 5 stars, and they get a big improve of his batural level, it is impossible that lance beat him and beat him so clearly a three weeks race, a man that was more for classics...

I can believe Evans and Sastre survived in that world getting good results without doping, it is possible, if they are much better than Lance, as i think, they could win le Tour but after biopassport and with some dopers out..., but what Lance did is not possible, and Ulle, for much he denied doping, the same.

I believe that if cycling today (I mean always world Tour, in the rest doping is similar than in the past) Froome woudl be even better than today, bnot respect froome or Valverde, but respect other people.

But as well I believe that tecnoholy and another improvements that SKy gave to cycling and that you need a time to get benefited of that, it is an important factor that helps Froome to be where he is, but he has that potential inside, he is talented, and he has work that talent.

And there are studies that said oval plate (i dont know the word in english) give 1 % more in speed climbing,.. (6 % in power) that is a big advantage. But you need to train that and to fix thinsg for every riders... but finally works, and Sastre said it was very important for him, and Froome always said he cant understand why other dont use...(he is legal, he must not say anything)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sure. Except for the fact that Lance came back post-passport and podiumed the Tour after not racing for a few years. From nothing to podium.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I dont know exactly what was the most important factor to Froome good operformance in Burgos, but I know that to do that you dont need doping, I know that for sure, and he would improve as he did. sometimes a lot of factors happens together.
Was was impossible if the jump that santambroglio did, becouse it was a different case to Froome. of course if you change the team and you become a leader, you are going to improve a lot in term of results, but he improved a lot in term of performance.. that is not the same.

Wait, and Froome improved less in terms of performance
Santambrogio went from decent domestique on a big team to good leader on a smaller team
Froome went from mediocre domestique on a big team to the best GT rider in the world, still as a domestique and still for the same team

Decent domestique?

He wanst the best domestique previous year for Evans and next year he started to climb with the best, he was already 29 with a long trayectory, it is a case very different to Froome, Froome needed tolear a lot, it was a cycling to make, or to pulish, he was yopung in terms on cycling, although he was 26 already. it is very differente at the 29 of Santa.

Yes, decent domestique. He also had reasonable results riding for himself, including multiple top 10s at Lombardia, along with top 10's at TDU, SanLuis, Tirreno, San Sebastian and podiums at Coppa Agostoni, Trentino and Laigueglia.

What did Froome have prior to his transformation - a transformation far more dramatic?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome had MTB racing experience. Show me a mediocre MTBer and I will show you someone who can drop half of B grade on a descent. :-/

Froome also had Kinjah mentoring him from 13 years of age and multiple large-group racing experiences in South Africa.

I really do get sick of this, "Froome couldn't ride a bike wah wah wah" business. It's very old and tattered and stinks of BS.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Froome had MTB racing experience. Show me a mediocre MTBer and I will show you someone who can drop half of B grade on a descent. :-/

Froome also had Kinjah mentoring him from 13 years of age and multiple large-group racing experiences in South Africa.

I really do get sick of this, "Froome couldn't ride a bike wah wah wah" business. It's very old and tattered and stinks of BS.

Good post. I read over all froomes 10 million claims about being a bad descended in his book and didn't think much of it, but now that you say it, it does feel like he was really eager to constantly reinforce the point.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Sure. Except for the fact that Lance came back post-passport and podiumed the Tour after not racing for a few years. From nothing to podium.

Lance had a lot of merit, becouse he did the Giro quite clean, maybe clean, and he did le Tour with the doping that some people used still in that year, but not the doping he used in the past.

His stage in Ventoux were he put Wiggins in 4th place is something that I predicted and it was very suspicious.
anyway at that level of doping Lance wanst nor similar good at ITT... it is similar than Horner...now Horner won la Vuelta, but he was much better in ITT in the past.

With similar level of doping, Contador was better. Lance was under biopasport and of couese his performance was much worse than in the past.

Anyway, I dont like him, but to come back and lose that muscular weight and so on has his merit.

I was in the press hall of Vuelta a Castilla y León when he crashed, I said, It s Lance, journalist didnt believe, me and other guy repeated, yes, it is Lance, and all the jounalist there, Josu Garai from Marca and those people starting to call with mobiles very nervous, people asking me where was the hospital, people becomed crazy... Lance was a very important guy.

Unfortunatelly, Froome is a better rider, and a much better person and he dont have by far the same recognition, even today.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Froome had MTB racing experience. Show me a mediocre MTBer and I will show you someone who can drop half of B grade on a descent. :-/

Froome also had Kinjah mentoring him from 13 years of age and multiple large-group racing experiences in South Africa.

I really do get sick of this, "Froome couldn't ride a bike wah wah wah" business. It's very old and tattered and stinks of BS.

Froome has improved a lot as we see this year in le Tour, but even last year he had problems to be in the right position in the peloton.

To ride on a bike is not to have experience in race or a shcloll of cycling, cycling is one thing, bike is another,
Contador was in the structure of ONCE, that it is the equivalent like to be in SKY in this era, and contador has a very good school for ITT for instance, like him a lot of people. Pinot raced a bike toward competition, from 7 years old, that is very difference.

What Contador was dioing with 17 year old is the equivalent that Konika Minolta for Froome, so 5 years of difference.

it doenst matter if here I say this alone and 20 people told me I am wrong. That doent change things or give you more arguments, and it is my opinion, and your opinion, reallity will be one of them.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Froome had MTB racing experience. Show me a mediocre MTBer and I will show you someone who can drop half of B grade on a descent. :-/

Froome also had Kinjah mentoring him from 13 years of age and multiple large-group racing experiences in South Africa.

I really do get sick of this, "Froome couldn't ride a bike wah wah wah" business. It's very old and tattered and stinks of BS.

Good post. I read over all froomes 10 million claims about being a bad descended in his book and didn't think much of it, but now that you say it, it does feel like he was really eager to constantly reinforce the point.

IMO it's a bizarre point to hammer. He showed in this year's TdF that he's a competent descender, at the very least it's not a glaring weakness like it is for Basso, Wigans or Schleck.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Froome had MTB racing experience. Show me a mediocre MTBer and I will show you someone who can drop half of B grade on a descent. :-/

Froome also had Kinjah mentoring him from 13 years of age and multiple large-group racing experiences in South Africa.

I really do get sick of this, "Froome couldn't ride a bike wah wah wah" business. It's very old and tattered and stinks of BS.

Good post. I read over all froomes 10 million claims about being a bad descended in his book and didn't think much of it, but now that you say it, it does feel like he was really eager to constantly reinforce the point.

IMO it's a bizarre point to hammer. He showed in this year's TdF that he's a competent descender, at the very least it's not a glaring weakness like it is for Basso, Wigans or Schleck.

Basso, Wiggins and Schleck has done incredible descent that you couldnt be close, I could put you some examples, as well thay have done, in the case of Schleck and Basso, bad descents when they have nothing to gain.

This year a pro rider told me, (maybe becouse he is fan of Nibali) that froome will lose time in the cobbles, becouse although he is the more stringer rider in the flat that the favourites, he dodnt handle when the bike and he dont position whel in the peloton, I could lokk for that conversation (in spanish), i told him that now Froome is no so bad, he has improved a lot, but he had serious problem in that before 2011 and later as well, but he improved year by year, as he improve year by year in ITT position and a lot of thing, but in 2009 there was a lot of worl to do with him.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Taxus has been exceptional today

 

[Archibald]

Re:

Taxus has been exceptional today

dealing with the "unlogicals" really well...

 

[meat puppet]

Re:

Sure. Except for the fact that Lance came back post-passport and podiumed the Tour after not racing for a few years. From nothing to podium.

Thank you for injecting some sanity and context. Zero to hero is the new normal, and if the so called new era has a meaning it is this.

More generally, Ashenden et al. have shown that a 10% performance boost can be obtained without appearing suspect by blood doping alone. On top of that, there are the get-skinny without losing power or endocrine function type of products, and finally the express TUEs.

Yet Taxus' position is that the incentives to dope are not there so riders do not dope. No gains to be had from that, only a guilty conscience. Some simply transform from okay-ish domestiques at best to world beaters by getting their act together and becoming more professional.

Yeah, like, totally.

 

[gillan1969]

I think I just heard Froome tell the BBC he had released ALL his medical history...got to love those inquisitive BBC reporters............

 

[heart_attack_man]

I think I just heard Froome tell the BBC he had released ALL his medical history...got to love those inquisitive BBC reporters............

Whaaaaaat? There's not a large enough facepalm image.

hang on...

 

[wendybnt]

Chris Froome: ""The testing has really evolved and the UCI has now implemented 24-hour testing. I have every confidence that the system now really works."





and the interview; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/33898614

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Chris Froome: ""The testing has really evolved and the UCI has now implemented 24-hour testing. I have every confidence that the system now really works."







and the interview; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/33898614

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b064zlvd#play

1.45.00 in

"I've released all my personal medical information"

in an interview where he also says if you say something often enough people believe it...

 

[wendybnt]

His tone of voice is (possibly) revealing. When he is saying what he will do he inflects his voice upwards as if he is asking a question rather than making an affirmative statement. Almost as if he's asking if it is being believed.

 

[Cycle Chic]

all this came up during the Tour," he said.
"The physiological testing could even help me understand what makes me who I am and what it is about me that allows me to make the efforts I do."

UNBELIEVABLE RUBBISH

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

His tone of voice is (possibly) revealing. When he is saying what he will do he inflects his voice upwards as if he is asking a question rather than making an affirmative statement. Almost as if he's asking if it is being believed.

In exactly the same way with PKimmage when Kimmage mentions Leinders as coinciding with the uptick in Froome performance.

PK: Dr Geert Leinders was brought on board for 2011, and if you look at the graph of performance, it is a somewhat unfortunate coincidence that it goes up as soon as he joins.

CF: Could it not have been Bobby Julich joining?

I would have thought if Julich was the reason, he'd say, "Yeah but Bobby came on board at the same time and showed me the ropes and how to derp the derp derp."