Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[DanielSong39]

telencefalus has been a seer so far.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

I know! After coming back from cancer, why would they risk doping and cheating! That’s just crazy talk

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

It's a completely different situation with Froome than with Armstrong. A motor in a bike provides so many more tangible opportunities for various people to get concrete proof of cheating. Especially in a day and age where every single person is walking around with a camera on them. Armstrong doped only with a small inner circle, so the only way he could be busted is if one of them revealed all (which they ultimatly did) or if he failed a test and it was made public (which obviously the UCI prevented).

It's just not credible that Froome has been using a motor pretty much all the time since 2011 - every mechanic on Sky from that period, most team-mates, most members of staff, anyone checking bikes at any of the race he's entered, all UCI/ASO chiefs from that period and many others would all have to have some knowledge of the conspiracy and could earn huge money by going to the tabloids with any evidence. Yet there is still nothing.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

Lance got caught before the start of Froome's dominance. Would be extremely dumb for Sky to try the same thing again just a few years later and expect different results

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

It's a completely different situation with Froome than with Armstrong. A motor in a bike provides so many more tangible opportunities for various people to get concrete proof of cheating. Especially in a day and age where every single person is walking around with a camera on them. Armstrong doped only with a small inner circle, so the only way he could be busted is if one of them revealed all (which they ultimatly did) or if he failed a test and it was made public (which obviously the UCI prevented).

It's just not credible that Froome has been using a motor pretty much all the time since 2011 - every mechanic on Sky from that period, most team-mates, most members of staff, anyone checking bikes at any of the race he's entered, all UCI/ASO chiefs from that period and many others would all have to have some knowledge of the conspiracy and could earn huge money by going to the tabloids with any evidence. Yet there is still nothing.

Also regarding doping, I think there's a certain level of acceptance within the peloton that riders may be doping, and so whistleblowers might be harder to find. But a physical motor? Doubt there's many people willing to sweep that under the carpet

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

Lance got caught before the start of Froome's dominance. Would be extremely dumb for Sky to try the same thing again just a few years later and expect different results

Lance/Bruyneel/US Postal started their Tour reign of terror one year after the Festina controversy.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

Lance got caught before the start of Froome's dominance. Would be extremely dumb for Sky to try the same thing again just a few years later and expect different results

Lance/Bruyneel/US Postal started their Tour reign of terror one year after the Festina controversy.

Funny how the bots keep coming out with the same Armstrong-logic on Sky/Froome...

 

[Angliru]

@at thehog
Just a little bit of knowledge of the sport's history would help them, unless they simply choose to ignore it or close their eyes to it.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

Lance got caught before the start of Froome's dominance. Would be extremely dumb for Sky to try the same thing again just a few years later and expect different results

Right on. Kinda like Festina

 

[Bolder]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

It's a completely different situation with Froome than with Armstrong. A motor in a bike provides so many more tangible opportunities for various people to get concrete proof of cheating. Especially in a day and age where every single person is walking around with a camera on them. Armstrong doped only with a small inner circle, so the only way he could be busted is if one of them revealed all (which they ultimatly did) or if he failed a test and it was made public (which obviously the UCI prevented).

It's just not credible that Froome has been using a motor pretty much all the time since 2011 - every mechanic on Sky from that period, most team-mates, most members of staff, anyone checking bikes at any of the race he's entered, all UCI/ASO chiefs from that period and many others would all have to have some knowledge of the conspiracy and could earn huge money by going to the tabloids with any evidence. Yet there is still nothing.

This is my position exactly wrt motor use. I will happily be proven wrong if and when said proof emerges. Until then I am open to the possibility that they aren't currently being used. I just can't imagine someone like CF/Sky taking that risk. I think it would destroy the sport once and for all.

 

[deValtos]

Like I said in the motor thread it's not the people on the inside I would be concerned about, even though I agree it would be very hard to keep it under wraps. It's the fact that any random crash (of which there are plenty every stage) causing a bike to split and show its motor ... or even a random journo from one of these france tv reports program or just random fan trying to do their own "test" while walking pass riders bikes at the start/finish or mechanic trucks. That's what makes it highly highly improbable for me. That doesn't happen with drug tests.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

It's a completely different situation with Froome than with Armstrong. A motor in a bike provides so many more tangible opportunities for various people to get concrete proof of cheating. Especially in a day and age where every single person is walking around with a camera on them. Armstrong doped only with a small inner circle, so the only way he could be busted is if one of them revealed all (which they ultimatly did) or if he failed a test and it was made public (which obviously the UCI prevented).

It's just not credible that Froome has been using a motor pretty much all the time since 2011 - every mechanic on Sky from that period, most team-mates, most members of staff, anyone checking bikes at any of the race he's entered, all UCI/ASO chiefs from that period and many others would all have to have some knowledge of the conspiracy and could earn huge money by going to the tabloids with any evidence. Yet there is still nothing.

Also regarding doping, I think there's a certain level of acceptance within the peloton that riders may be doping, and so whistleblowers might be harder to find. But a physical motor? Doubt there's many people willing to sweep that under the carpet

Fignon was not a fan of EPO, preferring older methods. He didn't go running to the press about EPO. Same here. Some riders will reject them at first then accept them when they see others using it and winning.

A small sport that does not really allow for anomalies. Those that want to be different dont make it in pro cycling onto WT teams. You have to be a team member in every aspect of the sport and that includes the culture to cheat.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

A small sport that does not really allow for anomalies. Those that want to be different dont make it in pro cycling onto WT teams. You have to be a team member in every aspect of the sport and that includes the culture to cheat.

...and this is why omerta works. I'd like to know what the vetting process is for various WT teams when looking for new talent as well as what is said to riders who are let go.

 

[noddy69]

Re:

Get a grip guys, this "Froome is just acting when he's ****"-theory is completely ridiculous.
"He didn't use his motor yesterday" is marginally less fantastical, but a competitor like him deliberately sabotaging a goal he's been working on for half a decade is Big Foot level absurdity.

Good recovery yesterday. I'm not buying the motor yet although it's a possibility but as for letting people have time back on a particularly hard stage- I think its his plan. He has done it before and if you go back to stage where he struggled it doesn't actually look like he is struggling. He basically just gets led up- no panic at all.

 

[Robert5091]

90 seconds to Nibs and 2 minutes to everyone else ... even when Froome was ill in the 2015 TdF he lost only 80 seconds to Quintana.

 

[Cycle Chic]

David Walsh still very conspicuous by his absence

 

[DanielSong39]

So, Froome's miraculous recovery continues?

I expect him to be strong today and easily clinch the Vuelta tomorrow.

 

[Benotti69]

JV has a great excuse for Froome's recovery. Machine calibration error.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re:

JV has a great excuse for Froome's recovery. Machine calibration error.

Well, we saw a better example of machine in the Tour de France. Losing 22 seconds in 300m in a strange way; usually when cyclists lose time in that fashion you see them lose cadence and grind their way up.

In any case the machine was fixed yesterday and should be good to go the next couple of days.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I dont think clinic have a clue on how huge the conspiracy and the level of omertà that would require to get away with a motorised bike.

Yep, this is still something I'm struggling to see past. The mechanics, the DSs, the teammates, the race organisers, the UCI - all of them would have to be in on it if Froome is using a motorised bike on a regular basis. Yet no one has come forward in six years now with any kind of proof or concrete allegation.

That's not to say he couldn't have used a bike in isolated instances in the past, discreetly with just him and a trusted mechanic in on it for example. But the suggestion that he has been using some kind of motorized bike consistently for the last six years - winning four TdFs along the way with it - and only occasionally using a non-motorized bike when he wants to fake a bad day, is really far fetched.

Which ultimately means that a motor is not the reason for his GT dominance in the last few years. All the evidence (Leinders, Bilharzia etc..) points to normal doping and simply that Froome is a great responder.

Wasn't UCI and the whole system in on it for LA's 7 year reign? Back end settlements going on. We heard about the 100k "gift" but that must have been peanuts with what else was been settled. And what about FIFA and all the settlements that was uncovered. Absolutely, all this can be and probably is going on, SKY has the money, as long as everyone is settled, who cares. People tend to think such terms like "settlement" is a third-world thing, no it ain't, its in all man's political machinations

Lance got caught before the start of Froome's dominance. Would be extremely dumb for Sky to try the same thing again just a few years later and expect different results

Lance/Bruyneel/US Postal started their Tour reign of terror one year after the Festina controversy.

Ahah true

 

[nayr497]

I woke up this morning dreading watching another Vuelta stage with the entire Sky team riding at the front. Ugh.

 

[Angliru]

@PremierAndrew
Well maybe they thought that after a few years the memories would fade. Seems to have worked for some.

 

[DanielSong39]

OK, Froome will win the Vuelta tomorrow; it's just a matter of how. I see a few possibilities; not sure which one Sky will pick:

(1) Froome yo-yos to a spectacular stage victory
(2) Froome yo-yos only a little, and finishes with the other GC contenders to clinch the race
(3) Froome gets dropped early in the final climb, where he is immediately surrounded by 7 teammates. They limit the damage to 30 seconds as he struggles across the line surrounded by 4 teammates.

I think (3) pushes the Sky narrative the best but it's also the most risky. I don't think (1) will invite any more scrutiny than usual so I think Froome will go for it if his legs are good enough. (2) seems like the most likely possibility, though.

No matter which one they pick I'm expecting a great acting performance.