Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[the sceptic]

I know that you know that you are cherry picking here. Everybody is aware of that Froome had his break-trou at that Vuelta...

Back to why i got suspicious of AC. Yes AC did win Alpe and yes he fini 2nd overall. But not only me saw something wrong with that 42+ min ride. BroDeal put it best back than (and he hit the jackpot, since the plasticizer proved him right not much later):

So Contador doing 42 minute on alpe is highly suspicious, but Dawg climbing almost as fast as Armstrong on Madone, ax3 and ventoux is normal?

Youre reaching taxus level of delusion now

 

[jamiephillips]

So last season Froome was on the basic, or domestique's programme. Wiggins must be fuming.

 

[tyfius]

On Belgian TV they had an interview with David Walsh - who once again claimed that there's nothing to find with Sky, but he's gonna keep looking - and he came up with the following interesting result:

http://www.cicloweb.it/tappa/2007-04-27/2a-tappa-citta-sant-angelo-citta-sant-angelo.html

A 22 year old Chris Froome comes in second in a mountain stage during his first race in Europe. (That small Giro was won by Rui Costa, by the way; other competitors were Ian Stannard, Ben Swift, ...)

So it does seem like his Vuelta 2011 wasn't his first race after all...

 

[whittashau]

My impression of Froome today is that he sandbagged big time.

I suspect the dummy has finally gotten the point that flying under the radar is a lot better than imposing your ego on the other riders.

Well he said that he didn't go 100%

 

[The Hitch]

So last season Froome was on the basic, or domestique's programme. Wiggins must be fuming.

Nah, last year Froome was probably on the same programme, but as he wasnt going ftw his motivation wont have been as high.

Doping of course historically only works with training and the harder you train the better the doping works.

So Froome last year was told - listen mate, you can take the first half of the season off and then you will ride the Tour as domestique to Brad.
This year he was told - you are the team leader and will ride the TDF for the win.

Id expect Froome would have had an easier time of it in training as the backup than he did this year with the pressure of TDF leader on his shoulders and the opportunity to win the big one. And all the focus on him

For example Froome admited to never even being in a windtunnel before this May, so clearly everything is being geared more around him this time. Maybe the doping too, who knows, but I dont know if there would be a reason to withold.

 

[jamiephillips]

Well with all the boffins they've got at Sky, you would think that one of them may have pointed this out before now??

Edit. My reply was to Juan not Hitch.

 

[jamiephillips]

^^Good post thanks

 

[BroDeal]

On Belgian TV they had an interview with David Walsh - who once again claimed that there's nothing to find with Sky, but he's gonna keep looking - and he came up with the following interesting result:

http://www.cicloweb.it/tappa/2007-04-27/2a-tappa-citta-sant-angelo-citta-sant-angelo.html

A 22 year old Chris Froome comes in second in a mountain stage during his first race in Europe. (That small Giro was won by Rui Costa, by the way; other competitors were Ian Stannard, Ben Swift, ...)

So it does seem like his Vuelta 2011 wasn't his first race after all...

I am shocked that when I look at the other top nine in that stage I don't find any GT winners. What happened to those guys? They should have ten to fifteen grand tours between the lot of them by now.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So Contador doing 42 minute on alpe is highly suspicious, but Dawg climbing almost as fast as Armstrong on Madone, ax3 and ventoux is normal?

Youre reaching taxus level of delusion now

I do my best to DQ myself like RR.

Jokes aside: AC rode 42+ mins (slower than Herrera in 1986 w/"heavy" bikes). He had problems to distance Brajkovic (actually he couldn´t at all despite 5 attacks). 3 weeks later he beat him by a whopping 83+ mins. We all know why: AC had his fresh BB´s, and in the DAU he did a Hamiltion. It´s all sooo obvious. Everything fits. We do not have such strings of circumstancial evidence against Froome. Nothing....

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Until the plasticizer incident i naively tought AC changed to the better. Yes i started to believe him, even rooted for him beating LA in 2009. My first doubts came back in 2010 when he first rode Alpe in 42+ mins http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8044 and then ruled the TdF together with AS hand-in-hand up the mountains.

... and then he came away with his doping almost unpunished for a 2nd time. That was enough for me.

Ah, thats where the special loving for the Spanish comes from. You need someone to believe in. This time it is the boy wonder front Mount Kenya.

Nothing wrong with that foxxy.

But the narrative is you lost faith in Conti in 2010 because he climbed as fast as Herrera - 1987, know your classics - in the Dauphinee and then winning the Tour dominating the mountains with that other freak?

With that narrative it is logical you put your faith in the Froomster, he sets best times all year around. He just always seem to have a tailwind, marginal gains and stuff.

PS: dont try to BS people, Herrera rode on a carbon bike in 1987, 8 to 8.5 kg

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

with David Walsh - who once again claimed that there's nothing to find with Sky, but he's gonna keep looking - and he came up with the following interesting result:

Oh yeah, the good ´ol Walsh. From hero to zero. He gets clobbered in the clinic too now. It seems Froome splits the good warriors of the LA era into friends and enemies...

 

[Stradebianche]

It is too bad the badzilla discussion is not its own thread. To further buttress what was discussed, I pulled this recent post off of Slowtwitch:


Some of the statements regarding bilharzia by Team Sky cannot be true.
http://velonews.competitor.com/...rzia-parasite_295548

My wife works as a post-doc studying infectious diseases, primarily researching schistosomiasis - which is the more common, scientific name for bilharzia.
The treatment for schistosomiasis/bilharzia is biltricide (Praziquantel) as mentioned, but the treatment is a one-day treatment. Reference here: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/...75b1916b8#nlm34068-7 under dosage and adminsitration.

If schistosomasis/bilharzia was diagnosed in 2010, Froome should have been given the one day treatment and it should have no longer been an issue. The only reported occurrences of when the initial treatment does not eradicate the infection is when a heavy worm burden is in the system (i.e. a lot of worms infected Froome.) Even in those cases, treatment does not drag on for 18 months+. A heavy worm burden would also make the symptoms more severe than "I was always getting little colds and coughs, nothing serious".

Thus, it's unlikely to claim that it's still in his system (as of January according to the above article), unless he got re-infected by continuing to come into contact with contaminated waters. Given his reported history with this infection, that would be stupid.

There are other inconsistencies with the claims given:
"It’s not something that just disappears. It’s a parasite. It lays eggs. They might be dormant, then the eggs hatch, then they lay more eggs" - Completely false: Eggs laid in humans do not, and cannot hatch; they can only hatch in fresh water (after being excreted by humans). They also need interaction with snails before the hatched eggs can infect humans again. Source: Under Pathophysiology/Life Cycle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis, also fairly common knowledge for those familiar with the infection.

Biltricide "basically kills everything in your system" - also false, same link above about the treatment under Adverse Effects - "In general BILTRICIDE is very well tolerated. Side effects are usually mild and transient and do not require treatment." Thus, a week of not being able to ride his bike is a ridiculous statement.

I'm not sure why they would lie to / misinform us about something like this....

+1 on a Badzilla thread,good to see this has been picked up elsewhere.

As mentioned before the only reason i can see as a layman for continued treatment would be if the Dawg made regular trips to Africa and it was a prophylatic treatment.They are specifically saying its still in his system though ruling that out.

As everyone knows the disease is given as a reason for his lack of performance pre 2011.Fair enough, he was sick and got better with treatment,why drag it out like this ?

I can't see what material advantage is to be gained by maintaining that he still has it in his system nearly 3 years on..

Some might speculate of course !

I'm still suprised that no journalist has pulled them up on this since there seems to be clear contradictions.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

But the narrative is you lost faith in Conti in 2010 because he climbed as fast as Herrera - 1987, know your classics - in the Dauphinee and then winning the Tour dominating the mountains with that other freak?

I doubted him b/c of riding 5 minutes slower than Pantani (and still had in mind his experience with BB since at least "hitting" the pro scene big time). 3 minutes slower than Sastre in the "clean new era". I mean AC was/is called the best rider of his generation. How come such performance swings? We all found out few month later. Once a doper, always a doper until you are feared to death (he might be cleanish now).

Froome OTOH (after his breakout Vuelta 2011, and when healthy) does not have such dubios performance swings.
Pre-2011 is a mystery. I admit that. But at least he didn´t finish a best 125th in his previous GT´s...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I doubted him b/c of riding 5 minutes slower than Pantani (and still had in mind his experience with BB since at least "hitting" the pro scene big time). 3 minutes slower than Sastre in the "clean new era". I mean AC was/is called the best rider of his generation. How come such performance swings? We all found out few month later. Once a doper, always a doper until you are feared to death (he might be cleanish now).

Froome OTOH (after his breakout Vuelta 2011, and when healthy) does not have such dubios performance swings.
Pre-2011 is a mystery. I admit that. But at least he didn´t finish a best 125th in his previous GT´s...

sounds like a typical fan defending a hardcore doper.

I will give Froome three years before hes taken down.

Enjoy it while you can.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

sounds like a typical fan defending a hardcore doper.

I will give Froome three years before hes taken down.

Enjoy it while you can.

I will enjoy it.
Avatar bet for the 3 year timeline? I bet against it...
But only for hardcore stuff, since you think he is a hardcore doper. Like BB (indirect by plasticizer or whatever they come up with new methods to show blood manipulation), Epo, Aicar, Roids, etc...
But nothing like "cough medicine" they got on Carl Lewis. So, basically that stuff that gives you a 2-yr ban by the WADA-Code...

 

[jilbiker]

Foome and neurtralize the descend

There are limits to what juice can do. And I think one place its almost useless is descending. Neutralizing the course because of rain should be ignored by TDF. I remember this last Giro, weather conditions were horrible in some stages and it was where Nibali showed he was master of all.

Froome, prove yourself, ain't no easy ride. I expect Alberto and Purito to attack to the limit and perhaps work together. Purito's ITT today was really strange except that seems the spanish Armada have the cannons out. I think this is going to be a very hard week for Froome.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I will enjoy it.
Avatar bet for the 3 year timeline? I bet against it...
But only for hardcore stuff, since you think he is a hardcore doper. Like BB, Epo, Aicar, etc...
But nothing like "cough medicine" they got on Carl Lewis. So, basically that stuff that gives you a 2-yr ban by the WADA-Code...

Does it look like I'm into avatars?

A semi doper ban?

If that makes you feel better.

 

[Netserk]

I doubted him b/c of riding 5 minutes slower than Pantani (and still had in mind his experience with BB since at least "hitting" the pro scene big time). 3 minutes slower than Sastre in the "clean new era". I mean AC was/is called the best rider of his generation. How come such performance swings? We all found out few month later. Once a doper, always a doper until you are feared to death (he might be cleanish now).

Froome OTOH (after his breakout Vuelta 2011, and when healthy) does not have such dubios performance swings.
Pre-2011 is a mystery. I admit that. But at least he didn´t finish a best 125th in his previous GT´s...

How well did he do in Romandie in 2012?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Does it look like I'm into avatars?

A semi doper ban?

If that makes you feel better.

Would like to go for some bucks, but impossible on the forum...

How well did he do in Romandie in 2012?

Wasn´t he sick?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I doubted him b/c of riding 5 minutes slower than Pantani (and still had in mind his experience with BB since at least "hitting" the pro scene big time).

So, him doing BB's before didnt bother you at all.

Okay, thats settled then. You are pro - doping. Or only your favourites while not caught.

I mean AC was/is called the best rider of his generation. How come such performance swings? We all found out few month later. Once a doper, always a doper until you are feared to death (he might be cleanish now).

Well, I once heard the Dauphinee is a prep race for the Tour. I also noticed you writing Conti was doing a Hamilton [banking blood] in that Dauphinee. Do you really think someone can do a 42 minutes on the Alpe with half a liter, maybe more, missing?

Froome OTOH (after his breakout Vuelta 2011, and when healthy) does not have such dubios performance swings.
Pre-2011 is a mystery. I admit that. But at least he didn´t finish a best 125th in his previous GT´s...

Yeah, that health of his, that seems to come and go. He must feel friggin lucky this year. From Oman till august on 5% bodyfat? With his medical 'history'? Incroyable.

 

[patswana]

Jokes aside: AC rode 42+ mins (slower than Herrera in 1986 w/"heavy" bikes). He had problems to distance Brajkovic (actually he couldn´t at all despite 5 attacks). 3 weeks later he beat him by a whopping 83+ mins. We all know why: AC had his fresh BB´s, and in the DAU he did a Hamiltion. It´s all sooo obvious. Everything fits. We do not have such strings of circumstancial evidence against Froome. Nothing....

You're assuming that he's using the same blood-based doping as LA, AC, Floyd etc.

Maybe Sky have some newer, better technique which works for much longer than the average life of a red blood cell. Maybe it's something to improve oxygen carrying and transfer that is independent of haematocrit level and is only required once and lasts for months. If this were the case, WADA etc could follow them around for the month or two leading up to the Tour and not find anything to worry about. It would also give the prolonged peak that CF has had this year.

 

[Netserk]

Wasn´t he sick?

No.

10char.

 

[mewmewmew13]

You're assuming that he's using the same blood-based doping as LA, AC, Floyd etc.

Maybe Sky have some newer, better technique which works for much longer than the average life of a red blood cell. Maybe it's something to improve oxygen carrying and transfer that is independent of haematocrit level and is only required once and lasts for months. If this were the case, WADA etc could follow them around for the month or two leading up to the Tour and not find anything to worry about. It would also give the prolonged peak that CF has had this year.

Bingo

Different era here...pushing ethical boundaries?

Maybe something not necessarily 'illegal'

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So, him doing BB's before didnt bother you at all.

You may have realized over the years that i was seriously pi$$ed that AC was still riding after Fuentes? You may have also realized that i tought he changed to the better after cycling changed with the passport? Only that he manipulated his blood again. BTW, it´s fair to assumme he never stopped doping since becoming pro. Only now it seems he´s feared to death and tries it cleanish...
Whatever, i don´t care about this multiple cheater. Only enjoy it when he gets beaten again and again. Really, it´s a great TdF so far.

Okay, thats settled then. You are pro - doping. Or only your favourites while not caught.

Since when? B/C i wait for at least some kind of evidence that Froome is doping? Just something... Geez.

Well, I once heard the Dauphinee is a prep race for the Tour. I also noticed you writing Conti was doing a Hamilton [banking blood] in that Dauphinee. Do you really think someone can do a 42 minutes on the Alpe with half a liter, maybe more, missing?

I heared that too. But still records were broken in the DAU. It wasn´t until the "blood era" that cyclists were also rans during the season, and then boom shattering the world at the TdF. In this case AC was unable to drop Braj, and then bombing him away by 83 minutes in the TdF. Not normal!

Think whatever you want. But one thing is for sure: AC did blood dope as prep for the TdF. Good that we have evidence... I didn´t meant to say he did exactly a Hamilton, but i meant kind of... You should know already that teams had different doping routines.

Yeah, that health of his, that seems to come and go. He must feel friggin lucky this year. From Oman till august on 5% bodyfat? With his medical 'history'? Incroyable.

So what? Jerry Rice and Bo Jackson had 2%...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Bingo

Different era here...pushing ethical boundaries?

Maybe something not necessarily 'illegal'

If it´s not illegal, than it´s ok. Always thought that Sky works in the "grey area" (see my older posts all the way back to last year). But still no proof they stepped over the line to illegal doping.

I mean it´s pro sports. Everybody tries to improve...