Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[bobbins]

They have done tests, they just don't want to share the results.

They do blood tests and lab tests and the results are definitely not shared with ukada either.

DB said they will VO2max test Froome next time he is in the lab.

lol at searching for something on google and finding something else that blows your mind. ahem.

anyway.





It's clearly open to interpretation, but Kerrison asks for data, and the VO2max test is mentioned. Then he finishes by saying Kerrison compiled all this data. My take is he did a VO2 max test.

If it was only a threshold test, "all this data" would seem overly descriptive for one test value.

A full physiological workup would include a VO2 max test, as well as a ramp test as described above ("threshold test").

So much for team BC being scientific - Wiggo says he had never done a lab test, nor a VO2 max test.


The reason Froome has not done a VO2 max test is he hasn't been in the lab!!!



Yet Kerrison is the same physiologist, and had Wiggo in the lab every 6 weeks, apparently.

 

[MartinGT]

DB said they will VO2max test Froome next So much for team BC being scientific - Wiggo says he had never done a lab test, nor a VO2 max test.

The reason Froome has not done a VO2 max test is he hasn't been in the lab!!!

I just cannot believe they have never ever been in a lab for testing.

Sky seriously never get their story straight either. Just laughable.

 

[bobbins]

I just cannot believe they have never ever been in a lab for testing.

Sky seriously never get their story straight either. Just laughable.

I had a conversation with someone from BC about both Froome and Brads lab tests just before the Vuelta 2011. But then again, I can't have done as they've never been tested.

 

[Energy Starr]

Well, lessee. What did I write;




Looks like I left myself a little wiggle room. Probably suggesting a guess more than a fact.

So, am I wrong on his weight?

Yes....you are. I'd put it at 58!!

 

[thehog]

I just cannot believe they have never ever been in a lab for testing.

Sky seriously never get their story straight either. Just laughable.

Well.

A better question is; what does a vo2 test tell you? What information do you get from such a test?

There I believe you'll find your answer.

 

[red_flanders]

Question for those in the know. If an athlete is using blood boosters of some kind, would that not affect the VO2 max score?

 

[thehog]

Question for those in the know. If an athlete is using blood boosters of some kind, would that not affect the VO2 max score?

Good question. Almost needs it's own thread...

The other part is the riders weight. That needs to be known.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Question for those in the know. If an athlete is using blood boosters of some kind, would that not affect the VO2 max score?

Yes. From my reading of studies, improvements in VO2max are noticed (<15%), but it's the time to exhaustion @ threshold that gets a real boost - up to 50%.

 

[EnacheV]

Yes. From my reading of studies, improvements in VO2max are noticed (<15%), but it's the time to exhaustion @ threshold that gets a real boost - up to 50%.

Can bilhzaria lower VO2 max?

 

[42x16ss]

I just cannot believe they have never ever been in a lab for testing.

Sky seriously never get their story straight either. Just laughable.

That is utterly bizzare if true. Even if they weren't testing VO2, surely they would be doing ramp/threshold power testing in the lab in order to get power baselines for training.

What's the point of training and racing with power if you aren't going to test to establish FTP and zones?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That is utterly bizzare if true. Even if they weren't testing VO2, surely they would be doing ramp/threshold power testing in the lab in order to get power baselines for training.

What's the point of training and racing with power if you aren't going to test to establish FTP and zones?

Strictly speaking, you can get all that stuff out of training (power meter) files. Granted, you can generate other information more easily in a lab environment, like VO2, lactate (can also be done in the field), body fat, etc.

But to call yourself a scientifically-oriented team and do no lab-level science on your riders does seem somewhat amiss.

 

[anth_hub]

That is utterly bizzare if true. Even if they weren't testing VO2, surely they would be doing ramp/threshold power testing in the lab in order to get power baselines for training.

What's the point of training and racing with power if you aren't going to test to establish FTP and zones?

They have never said they don't do threshold testing, in fact the opposite. But as you probably know, that doesn't need to be done in a lab. All you need is a means of measuring power and one of these http://www.novabiomedical.com/products/lactate-plus/

 

[42x16ss]

Strictly speaking, you can get all that stuff out of training (power meter) files. Granted, you can generate other information more easily in a lab environment, like VO2, lactate (can also be done in the field), body fat, etc.

But to call yourself a scientifically-oriented team and do no lab-level science on your riders does seem somewhat amiss.

They have never said they don't do threshold testing, in fact the opposite. But as you probably know, that doesn't need to be done in a lab. All you need is a means of measuring power and one of these http://www.novabiomedical.com/products/lactate-plus/

Yes but it's nowhere near as efficient as a properly calibrated ergo test in the lab. It can take a fair while to be certain that you've got an accurate 100% maximum 20min effort for example. Not what you'd expect from the team of "marginal gains".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes but it's nowhere near as efficient as a properly calibrated ergo test in the lab. It can take a fair while to be certain that you've got a 100% maximum 20min effort for example. Not what you'd expect from the team of "marginal gains".

I test very poorly in labs Real world riding and power files much gooderer.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Plus, a 1-4 hour test protocol in the lab would cause brain / motivation death even for pros, I would suggest.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Kinda moot when you consider: whether they tested Froome or not, he was still getting the boot pre-2011 Vuelta. And then tearing their bank account a new one post-2011 Vuelta.

 

[42x16ss]

Plus, a 1-4 hour test protocol in the lab would cause brain / motivation death even for pros, I would suggest.

Certainly, but a 20min run (excluding warmup and cool down) is usually enough.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Certainly, but a 20min run (excluding warmup and cool down) is usually enough.

To be clear: I think it's ridiculous to claim they have not had Froome in the lab since the Tour.

I think there is a lot of value in doing testing on the road, 20+ minute climbs and TT type routes are easy when you're a pro going where you want to train. So much so that I personally wouldn't care too much about testing in a lab if the riders had PMs on.

Testing to determine a rider's potential before signing them up - definitely.

Claiming "marginal gains" and not taking advantage of the accuracy and capability of a physiology laboratory for testing and ongoing assessment? Ridiculous.

 

[nomapnocompass]

Completely agree. If you view the Road to Glory documentary series which Sky ran about Team Sky in 2012 to celebrate Wiggins winning the Tour in and getting Olympic gold, it clearly shows Sky's extensive lab facilities. There is even footage of a rider doing a VO2 max test ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7z-rj4jdw - 2m40s ). Yet they do not test their GT winning riders and have no idea of their VO2max?, that is nonsense!!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Completely agree. If you view the Road to Glory documentary series which Sky ran about Team Sky in 2012 to celebrate Wiggins winning the Tour in and getting Olympic gold, it clearly shows Sky's extensive lab facilities. There is even footage of a rider doing a VO2 max test ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7z-rj4jdw - 2m40s ). Yet they do not test their GT winning riders and have no idea of their VO2max?, that is nonsense!!

To be pedantic - which Fran will be - that's a BC rider, a woman, not a Team Sky rider. And probably BC's lab, not Sky's.

 

[Bumeington]

Yes. From my reading of studies, improvements in VO2max are noticed (<15%), but it's the time to exhaustion @ threshold that gets a real boost - up to 50%.

Does this take into account that the threshold has increased? To my mind, if a rider can do 400W for an hour and then increases this to 440W by doping, then it's no surprise that they can do 1.5 hours at 400W now?

Basically I think time to exhaustion is not such a great measure for improvement.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Does this take into account that the threshold has increased? To my mind, if a rider can do 400W for an hour and then increases this to 440W by doping, then it's no surprise that they can do 1.5 hours at 400W now?

Yes, scarily it did. The power level was not threshold, but 80% of PPO, and they increased PPO by 13% as well as increasing time to exhaustion of 80% of that new PPO by 54%.

Study not ideal for elite cyclist comparison, but still useful in examining effects.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/the-effect-of-epo-on-performance/

 

[Catwhoorg]

It occurred to me as I was discussing treatment options for some tendonitis, Froome may have withdrawn from TA due to a steroid shot/treatment for the joint issue.

That is banned IC, but allowed OOC.

Not saying he did or he didn't but its a legitimate treatment option, that would require him to withdraw.

 

[Beech Mtn]

It occurred to me as I was discussing treatment options for some tendonitis, Froome may have withdrawn from TA due to a steroid shot/treatment for the joint issue.

That is banned IC, but allowed OOC.

Not saying he did or he didn't but its a legitimate treatment option, that would require him to withdraw.

Could apply to Horner as well.

 

[red_flanders]

Yes. From my reading of studies, improvements in VO2max are noticed (<15%), but it's the time to exhaustion @ threshold that gets a real boost - up to 50%.

Thanks. I would venture then that as such, any V02 Max we get from a rider whose daily regimen is not strictly controlled before the test would not be convincing.