Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dear Wiggo]

It is a VO2max test. It's showing power at VO2max, divided by the rider's weight.

 

[Parker]

You're just repeating what Froome and the team are saying. Of course no one who is unsatisfied with their answers is going to be convinced by you repeating it as if it's fact.

It may be true, but you don't know.

You cannot seriously be telling me that Froome got a V02 max test and doesn't know what the number is. That's absurd. Riders talk about their numbers all the time. People remember things like that.

I was IQ tested when I was 15. That was 32 years ago and I remember exactly what that number was, and I was stoned when I took the test.

But yeah, he doesn't recall if it was 80 or 85. I simply don't believe him.

Why would he care what is was? He wasn't a sports scientist. He just wanted to race his bike. I've never heard a cyclist mention their Vo2 max other than LeMond, who is from a different era. Watts occasionally, but not Vo2 max. More brag about not using a power meter.
You have self constructed image of a cyclist, which conveniently fits into your argument, but probably bears little comparison to reality.

The fact that you remember you IQ score is just weird. That's just odd. (Unless it's something you keep quoting it as some sort of proof of something)

 

[42x16ss]

That's too difficult to understand apparently - just because the VO2 uptake isn't stated...

 

[Parker]

Are you working for Sky? Seriously, you're just repeating their talking points. And you're lying, as serious sports scientists have asked for these numbers.

Who? Are they pretend sports scientists like Vayer (actually a PE teacher) who are interested in promoting their own profile?

Have you considered that those talking points are actually correct? And you might be wrong (Feel free to quote your IQ score to prove you're not as dim as I think you are)

 

[thehog]

Who? Are they pretend sports scientists like Vayer (actually a PE teacher) who are interested in promoting their own profile?

As distinct from Brailsford the balding mature age distance learning student?

Or Kerrison who went to the University of Queensland. Better know for the amount of dope the marine biology students consumed than its academic credentials

 

[red_flanders]

Why would he care what is was? He wasn't a sports scientist. He just wanted to race his bike. I've never heard a cyclist mention their Vo2 max other than LeMond, who is from a different era. Watts occasionally, but not Vo2 max. More brag about not using a power meter.
You have self constructed image of a cyclist, which conveniently fits into your argument, but probably bears little comparison to reality.

The fact that you remember you IQ score is just weird. That's just odd. (Unless it's something you keep quoting it as some sort of proof of something)

Because you haven't heard cyclists mention it, that means something other than you're uninformed? Come on man. Cyclists are regularly tested for this and it's a key number. Absurd.

I guess if you think that's weird I don't know what to tell you. Other than the fact that you say I "keep quoting it". Now that's weird because I said it once and it wasn't a quote, nor was the number the point.

You're not serious here are you.

 

[red_flanders]

Who? Are they pretend sports scientists like Vayer (actually a PE teacher) who are interested in promoting their own profile?

Have you considered that those talking points are actually correct? And you might be wrong (Feel free to quote your IQ score to prove you're not as dim as I think you are)

No. Many people are interested in his numbers. Here's a read:
http://sportsscientists.com/2013/07...ut-noise-for-people-who-are-pseudoscientists/

 

[hrotha]

Did he? Or did he say 'he'd think about it', like parents do when their daughter wants a pony?

Yes, good point: Brailsford treated serious journalists doing their job as if they were capricious little girls asking for unreasonable things, which shows just how fake his commitment with transparency is.

 

[42x16ss]

Why would he care what is was? He wasn't a sports scientist. He just wanted to race his bike. I've never heard a cyclist mention their Vo2 max other than LeMond, who is from a different era. Watts occasionally, but not Vo2 max. More brag about not using a power meter.
You have self constructed image of a cyclist, which conveniently fits into your argument, but probably bears little comparison to reality.

The fact that you remember you IQ score is just weird. That's just odd. (Unless it's something you keep quoting it as some sort of proof of something)

The riders DO care what it is. Evans at the AIS as a 22yo:

The best test results achieved by Evans at the AIS between the ages of 18 and 24 was a maximum aerobic power output of 455W (7.3 W.kg-1 body mass). This power output was associated with a VO2max of 5.65 L.min-1 or 87 ml.kg-1.min-1 – this score remains one of the highest ever recorded for any athlete tested at the AIS in Canberra. Threshold for Cadel was estimated at 370W or ~6.0 W.kg-1.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/past-issue/lance-vs-cadel-a-study-of-two-22-year-olds/

Oskar Svendson knows his:

However a test carried out recently on Svendsen at the University of Lillehammer saw the young Norwegian rider max out at a sensational 97.5 ml/kg/min, believed to be the highest ever recorded.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ld-champion-Oskar-Svendsen.aspx#ixzz3Kt9Z6dyS

Hushovd has been quoted as saying 86, Kurt Asle Arvesen at 91. It's not that hard to find if you look. As long as it's not a Sky rider

 

[The Hitch]

Parkser is right. How could Froome remember his VO2 max number. I mean this is the same guy who had no idea that a friend of his who made world headlines by being caught doping at the 2007 Tour de France and being thrown out of the race and was subsequently banned for 2 years, he had no idea this friend was "cheating".

Its also the same guy who understood "listen chris, take these 2 tablets and you will be cured, nothing to worry about, this has no impact on your health whatsoever" as
"Chris, you have one of the worst diseases known to man, one that is totally uncurable and will require you to travel half way accross the world every 6 months for the rest of your life just to survive", and spent 2 years ignoring all the doctors who told him that he had bizzarely misheard the diagnosis, and continued to behave in the way his temporary delusion instructed him.

To ask a total dunce like that to remember a number is ludicrous. Im impressed he can even remember that it is something like 80. Faced with the far easier question in 2012 of "what year did they diagnose you with Bilharzia" he replied "2009" (when the correct answer was 2010), and who thought coming in ahead of a Contador who had dropped to the gruppeto after 2 punctures was "proof he could climb with the top guys".

 

[42x16ss]

Who? Are they pretend sports scientists like Vayer (actually a PE teacher) who are interested in promoting their own profile?

Close... Vayer is actually a Professor of Exercise Physiology at the College de Plerin. Nice try - nothing we haven't already heard from the Armstrong masses already though

 

[42x16ss]

Parkser is right. How could Froome remember his VO2 max number. I mean this is the same guy who had no idea that a friend of his who made world headlines by being caught doping at the 2007 Tour de France and being thrown out of the race and was subsequently banned for 2 years, he had no idea this friend was "cheating".

Its also the same guy who understood "listen chris, take these 2 tablets and you will be cured, nothing to worry about, this has no impact on your health whatsoever" as
"Chris, you have one of the worst diseases known to man, one that is totally uncurable and will require you to travel half way accross the world every 6 months for the rest of your life just to survive", and spent 2 years ignoring all the doctors who told him that he had bizzarely misheard the diagnosis, and continued to behave in the way his temporary delusion instructed him.

To ask a total dunce like that to remember a number is ludicrous. Im impressed he can even remember that it is something like 80. Faced with the far easier question in 2012 of "what year did they diagnose you with Bilharzia" he replied "2009" (when the correct answer was 2010), and who thought coming in ahead of a Contador who had dropped to the gruppeto after 2 punctures was "proof he could climb with the top guys".

It was actually 3 punctures. He also omitted what happened the next day in the TT

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Because you haven't heard cyclists mention it, that means something other than you're uninformed? Come on man. Cyclists are regularly tested for this and it's a key number. Absurd.

I guess if you think that's weird I don't know what to tell you. Other than the fact that you say I "keep quoting it". Now that's weird because I said it once and it wasn't a quote, nor was the number the point.

You're not serious here are you.

You're talking to someone who has never raced.

It'd be like me saying I've never heard a golfer mention his handicap. I haven't. But I don't hang out with golfers either.

 

[thehog]

Parkser is right. How could Froome remember his VO2 max number. I mean this is the same guy who had no idea that a friend of his who made world headlines by being caught doping at the 2007 Tour de France and being thrown out of the race and was subsequently banned for 2 years, he had no idea this friend was "cheating".

Its also the same guy who understood "listen chris, take these 2 tablets and you will be cured, nothing to worry about, this has no impact on your health whatsoever" as
"Chris, you have one of the worst diseases known to man, one that is totally uncurable and will require you to travel half way accross the world every 6 months for the rest of your life just to survive", and spent 2 years ignoring all the doctors who told him that he had bizzarely misheard the diagnosis, and continued to behave in the way his temporary delusion instructed him.

To ask a total dunce like that to remember a number is ludicrous. Im impressed he can even remember that it is something like 80. Faced with the far easier question in 2012 of "what year did they diagnose you with Bilharzia" he replied "2009" (when the correct answer was 2010), and who thought coming in ahead of a Contador who had dropped to the gruppeto after 2 punctures was "proof he could climb with the top guys".

Brilliant. Just brillant.

 

[Granville57]

Froome's distant ancestors?

World's Oldest Art Identified in Half-Million-Year-Old Zigzag
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/12/141203-mussel-shell-oldest-art/

The engraving belongs to a trove of fossils unearthed in 1891 by Dutch paleoanthropologist Eugène Dubois. Among them were the first specimens of what Dubois called Pithecanthropus erectus, later known as Homo erectus: They were the first in their lineage to leave Africa and founding members of the family that eventually included us.

 

[TheSpud]

Close... Vayer is actually a Professor of Exercise Physiology at the College de Plerin. Nice try - nothing we haven't already heard from the Armstrong masses already though

That "college" is a high school, so PE teacher is probably an accurate description.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So was Einstein.

Just saying.

You guys denigrating others based on qualifications are making me laugh. I despise your bigotry.

 

[Digger]

When I did the Vo2 and power test a bit after the camp I discovered my threshold only went down a slight bit from last June or July

Sam Bennett

Bennett did a fitness test towards the end of November and the data from that looked good. His body fat levels were six percent, his power output was close to what he was putting out at the time of the Tour of Britain and his VO2 max was 81.7. “I was happy with that,” he said.

But yes who keeps track of this VO2 stuff...

MC: (laughs) He doesn’t have the best memory.

CF: I get my years mixed up.

CF: Logic says your red blood cells would be lower because your haematocrit is being eaten by those parasites. I’d imagine if there were any changes to my normal (profile) it would probably still be within the parameters so . . .

MC: You definitely weren’t in the advanced stages of Bilharzia.

CF: I was pretty full on.

MC: But you weren’t in the advanced stages

Froome is doing well to ride upright to be fair.

 

[badboygolf16v]

In life you have to realise that there are some people who are too entrenched in their views to communicate sensibly with. Trying to get them to change their mind is like trying to teach a dog economics. It's just not worth it. And that's why teams don't engage with them. (Obama made that mistake by trying to placate the 'birthers')

Your public admission of your failings is admirable.

 

[mrhender]

A few questions and comments...

I looked a bit more into this Stephane Bermon character..

Questions I'd like to know the answer to:

1) How long has he been Froomes personal doctor? (and is he now)
2) Who else is privately under his supervision/guidance?
3) Would it be possible for an athlete to dope without his personal doctor with Bermons expertice being aware of it?
4) Is there not a conflict of interest when a board member of the IAAF is working side by side with top athletes? (esp since the doctor is sworn to silence)

I have plenty more, but if anyone can answer some of it for starters -I would be grateful..

It seems to me that IF I was a top athlete and wanted to circumvene anti-doping regulations, then Bermon is the perfect guy.. He is well-connected and knows everything needed to cheat the systems...
It could of course be that he is just a brilliant doctor, and Froome needs to have one of course (with all his illnesses)
And one could argue that since Bermon is involved in anti-doping authorities it would strenghten Froome's credibility.. But that is also speculation of course..

A quick google-survey exposes that Bermon speaks russian (not that it necessarily means anything, but in light of yesterdays news -it is quite ironic)

 

[Digger]

A few questions and comments...

I looked a bit more into this Stephane Bermon character..

Questions I'd like to know the answer to:

1) How long has he been Froomes personal doctor? (and is he now)
2) Who else is privately under his supervision/guidance?
3) Would it be possible for an athlete to dope without his personal doctor with Bermons expertice being aware of it?
4) Is there not a conflict of interest when a board member of the IAAF is working side by side with top athletes? (esp since the doctor is sworn to silence)

I have plenty more, but if anyone can answer some of it for starters -I would be grateful..

It seems to me that IF I was a top athlete and wanted to circumvene anti-doping regulations, then Bermon is the perfect guy.. He is well-connected and knows everything needed to cheat the systems...
It could of course be that he is just a brilliant doctor, and Froome needs to have one of course (with all his illnesses)
And one could argue that since Bermon is involved in anti-doping authorities it would strenghten Froome's credibility.. But that is also speculation of course..

A quick google-survey exposes that Bermon speaks russian (not that it necessarily means anything, but in light of yesterdays news -it is quite ironic)

Vino also had this guy as a rider.

 

[red_flanders]

Vino also had this guy as a rider.

I guess that provides something of an answer to #3.

 

[markene2]

Kash also had Bermon.

 

[mrhender]

Thanks..

I was aware that he was kaschekins doctor..

But when was that?

Was he working for Astana, or only for specific riders?

@Digger: Was he Vino's personal doctor, or was he working for Astana in general?
And again -when did he started this and when did it stop?

Sorry, I know I'am asking a lot, but it could be important..

Now with regard to Froome.. If a doctor with Bermons expertice and connections started working with Froome in 2011 then a lot would make sense.. To go all mutant you would need exactly a guy like Bermon?

 

[Alex76]

Given that 'Bermon' is rumoured to be Dawg's good Dr, and that this recent story about systematic Russian doping has come to light...

have a look at this overview of a sports seminar organised in Moscow by the IAAF and moderated by none other than the Dawg's good physician.

bold italics are the interesting points.

Seminar “Sports Medicine & Anti-Doping”

In the period of October 25-28, 2010 IAAF Moscow Regional development Centre staged a Seminar “Sports Medicine & Anti – Doping”. Seminar took place in the Russia State University for Physical Culture, Sports. Youth and Tourism.

Dr. Stephane Bermon (Monaco) and Dr. Giuseppe Fiscketto (Italy), both Members of the IAAF Medical and Anti-Doping Commission, were Moderators of the Seminar.

Twenty (21) doctors (13 men and 8 women) from 19 countries took and active part in the Seminar. They represented the following countries: Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Poland, Rumania, Russia (2), Serbia, Slovenia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine (2).

In the course of the Seminar the following topics were discussed:

- Menstrual cycle, contraceptives and athletic performance

- Altitude training and performance

- Updating of TUE process and management

- Updating of EIA, asthma, provocation tests etc

- Management of blood sampling collection, procedures, etc.

- Some practical aspects of anti-doping control and regulations

- New border: gene doping

- Presentation of IAAF injury surveillance project

- Pre participation examination in sport

- Updating of recovery methods

- Autologous growth factors (biological and ethical aspects)

- Exercise and immunity

- Hyperandrogenism in female athletics

- Alternative treatments in sports traumatology

- Stress fracture, shint splint and compartmental syndrome

- Сircadian rhythms and jet lag;

- Heat stress, hydration etc;

- Overtraining

- Iron supplementation and sports

Participants received all the presentations which were delivered by the Moderators of the Seminar on CDs and in the near future will be published in the RDC Website in the Section “Documents”.