Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[ScienceIsCool]

Dr Michele Ferrari's blog about Froome breathing technique (from 2013)
the real Dr Ferrari, not some twitter funny alter ego

"i believe that this breathing technique, adequately trained and associated with a strengthening of the respiratory muscles, may bring advantages over an uncontrolled breathing, so frequent even among top athletes"

https://twitter.com/Spitinthesoup/status/610094341219069953/photo/1

mind, he's on the juice like the others, I am not exchanging breathing with peds.

I read this. And then later tried it. Your mouth / throat is more open tilting your head back than down. It's like closing a pipe or pinching off a tube when putting your head down.

I tried it too, and it did not work for me either. I thought it could be a personal thing, but really, thinking about it, it's simple human anatomy. If you put your head back (which is basically what you do when looking straight ahead on a bike) the oral cavity aligns with the trachea whereas if you keep your head in a normal position which would translate to staring at your stem on a bike, there's a 90 degree angle. So naturally the air flow will be less obstructed in the head back position. You can test it out for yourself, see in which position you feel you can breathe deeper/more easily, head back or head in normal position.

Even if the flow rate was improved, I really super doubt that air flow rate is a limiting factor in performance. You're still stuck with the limited exchange rate of gasses across the alveoli. I'm taking a complete guess, but I'm guessing that the heart rate and breathing rate are matched to maximize the oxygen uptake based on the gas exchange rate. Further, my understanding is that "belly breathing" became widely practiced because it was more effective than breathing rapidly. The idea behind it is to draw deeper breaths that more effectively exchange volumes of stale air at the lobes of your lungs - thereby expanding the amount of oxygen exchanged with each breath.

John Swanson

 

[peloton]

Re: Re:

sure there will be a thread about the guy who is motopaced by wonderboy somewhere

Found it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25891 anyway since he's merican they all stopped in 2006/2007 etc

Yet your guy beat the rider motopaced by Wonderboy...

Talk about having it both ways...

Welcome to the psyche of the average English sports fan. They win, it's in spite of the opposition's cheating and are simply in their rightful place in spite of all the adversity. They lose, and they are the plucky loser who fought all the way and were only defeated by the opposition's dirty handed tactics.

Follow sporting events like the Ashes and the football World Cup (from an English perspective) and you'll get it

haha, well said, and spot on (on all parts)!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Dr Michele Ferrari's blog about Froome breathing technique (from 2013)
the real Dr Ferrari, not some twitter funny alter ego

"i believe that this breathing technique, adequately trained and associated with a strengthening of the respiratory muscles, may bring advantages over an uncontrolled breathing, so frequent even among top athletes"

https://twitter.com/Spitinthesoup/status/610094341219069953/photo/1

mind, he's on the juice like the others, I am not exchanging breathing with peds.

I read this. And then later tried it. Your mouth / throat is more open tilting your head back than down. It's like closing a pipe or pinching off a tube when putting your head down.

I tried it too, and it did not work for me either. I thought it could be a personal thing, but really, thinking about it, it's simple human anatomy. If you put your head back (which is basically what you do when looking straight ahead on a bike) the oral cavity aligns with the trachea whereas if you keep your head in a normal position which would translate to staring at your stem on a bike, there's a 90 degree angle. So naturally the air flow will be less obstructed in the head back position. You can test it out for yourself, see in which position you feel you can breathe deeper/more easily, head back or head in normal position.

Even if the flow rate was improved, I really super doubt that air flow rate is a limiting factor in performance. You're still stuck with the limited exchange rate of gasses across the alveoli. I'm taking a complete guess, but I'm guessing that the heart rate and breathing rate are matched to maximize the oxygen uptake based on the gas exchange rate. Further, my understanding is that "belly breathing" became widely practiced because it was more effective than breathing rapidly. The idea behind it is to draw deeper breaths that more effectively exchange volumes of stale air at the lobes of your lungs - thereby expanding the amount of oxygen exchanged with each breath.

John Swanson

Air flow rate is a limiting factor if you
1. close the airways more than usual and/or
2. have asthma

which Froome has claimed he has - hence the inhaler...

 

[peloton]

Badzilla, asthma, lung infection(s)....

Yet spinning seated like Lance, while having the most un-aero style a rider can possibly have?

Hysterical

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

Noticed that as well in one of those close ups. Grinning whilst looking at his stem, bobbing his head from side to side as he pedals like Lance. The guy really is a freak show.

Agreed on Froome getting creepier. Some parallels with Midousuji! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ09ZDqqQ30

Am the only one who is willing to admit they watched some of this series????

We can only wish Froome had that much style.

Froome might be the death knell for cycling. Lying doper. Horrific style. Complete douchebag.

At least Armstrong looked like he should be riding a bike...

We're gonna have to move all races to the island, where the "real fans" reside.

Like what? U. S. A. ? Where the true douches of the douches* reside?


* Not to offend you, just throwing words you use everytime right back into ya "spoiled" face!

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

sure there will be a thread about the guy who is motopaced by wonderboy somewhere

Found it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25891 anyway since he's merican they all stopped in 2006/2007 etc

Yet your guy beat the rider motopaced by Wonderboy...

Talk about having it both ways...

Welcome to the psyche of the average English sports fan. They win, it's in spite of the opposition's cheating and are simply in their rightful place in spite of all the adversity. They lose, and they are the plucky loser who fought all the way and were only defeated by the opposition's dirty handed tactics.

Follow sporting events like the Ashes and the football World Cup (from an English perspective) and you'll get it

haha, well said, and spot on (on all parts)!

typical view of England from an Australian who has probably never visited

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

sure there will be a thread about the guy who is motopaced by wonderboy somewhere

Found it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25891 anyway since he's merican they all stopped in 2006/2007 etc

Yet your guy beat the rider motopaced by Wonderboy...

Talk about having it both ways...

Welcome to the psyche of the average English sports fan. They win, it's in spite of the opposition's cheating and are simply in their rightful place in spite of all the adversity. They lose, and they are the plucky loser who fought all the way and were only defeated by the opposition's dirty handed tactics.

Follow sporting events like the Ashes and the football World Cup (from an English perspective) and you'll get it

haha, well said, and spot on (on all parts)!

typical view of England from an Australian who has probably never visited

Only several times, up to a couple of months at a time, with some family who've lived there for several years.

Read your papers and pay more attention to the fans around you when you attend sporting events. It's sadly true for a good portion of English sports "fans". Having said that, most of the rest are hilarious, self deprecating realists.

Australians are very similar TBH.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

Noticed that as well in one of those close ups. Grinning whilst looking at his stem, bobbing his head from side to side as he pedals like Lance. The guy really is a freak show.

Agreed on Froome getting creepier. Some parallels with Midousuji! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ09ZDqqQ30

Am the only one who is willing to admit they watched some of this series????

We can only wish Froome had that much style.

Froome might be the death knell for cycling. Lying doper. Horrific style. Complete douchebag.

At least Armstrong looked like he should be riding a bike...

We're gonna have to move all races to the island, where the "real fans" reside.

Like what? U. S. A. ? Where the true douches of the douches* reside?


* Not to offend you, just throwing words you use everytime right back into ya "spoiled" face!

It gives me a sad face that your geographical ignorance is so great. The United States isn't an island...come back again when you read up on the parameters...

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

sure there will be a thread about the guy who is motopaced by wonderboy somewhere

Found it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25891 anyway since he's merican they all stopped in 2006/2007 etc

Yet your guy beat the rider motopaced by Wonderboy...

Talk about having it both ways...

Welcome to the psyche of the average English sports fan. They win, it's in spite of the opposition's cheating and are simply in their rightful place in spite of all the adversity. They lose, and they are the plucky loser who fought all the way and were only defeated by the opposition's dirty handed tactics.

Follow sporting events like the Ashes and the football World Cup (from an English perspective) and you'll get it

haha, well said, and spot on (on all parts)!

typical view of England from an Australian who has probably never visited

Says the guy who is a perfect example of what he's talking about.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

sure there will be a thread about the guy who is motopaced by wonderboy somewhere

Found it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25891 anyway since he's merican they all stopped in 2006/2007 etc

Yet your guy beat the rider motopaced by Wonderboy...

Talk about having it both ways...

Welcome to the psyche of the average English sports fan. They win, it's in spite of the opposition's cheating and are simply in their rightful place in spite of all the adversity. They lose, and they are the plucky loser who fought all the way and were only defeated by the opposition's dirty handed tactics.

Follow sporting events like the Ashes and the football World Cup (from an English perspective) and you'll get it

haha, well said, and spot on (on all parts)!

typical view of England from an Australian who has probably never visited

its a fair point...england are a quarter final team at the football world cup and yet 1966 bears heavy on their fans and media...there is, or at least was, an expectation they would win, evryting at world cup and euro. 1966 was a statistical anomaly and in fact reinforced by them being the home nation (who generally outperforms) and yet gets treated as normal...crazy really. To be fair there was change at last world cup where there was a realistion that they were in fact just a last 8/16 team...still, as a scot its still nice to see them get beaten on penalties

 

[Nellyspania]

Re: Re:

So true (quarter final is the best we can hope for!), I have also noticed with the '66 win now being half a century ago that more England fans are a bit more realistic - many of us predicted that getting past the group stage was the best we could hope for.

If only our players were on the same program as Robben; I remember watching him and thinking 'that guy should be an elite endurance athlete!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

 

[pastronef]

Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

Contador knows how to prepare and he made his calculations while choosing to do the double.
He beat Froome on almost every MTF in the last GT they raced (Vuelta 2014) so he'll start well prepared.
He never went over the top during the Giro (sauf Mortirolo) he "paced" himself
(well, if you can pace yourself while trying to follow Landa)
and he performed well in the TT. his team and him will be strong in both the TTT and the TT

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Agreed, he definitely knows how to prepare. And meter his effort.

Are you're thinking he can beat Froome?

Does that extend to Astana + Nibbles?

Seems like too much firepower for one man to contend with?

 

[BigMac]

The last two pages or so of this thread are hilarious.

I need to check in more often.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Agreed, he definitely knows how to prepare. And meter his effort.

Are you're thinking he can beat Froome?

Does that extend to Astana + Nibbles?

Seems like too much firepower for one man to contend with?

I expect the fight between them. too many different possibilities, from echelons, to cobbles, to long range attacks or a bad day.

I hope Froome has the edge and gets the final yellow. but a Nibali-Contador alliance is not unpossible. they must take Sky by surprise.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

well i saw that 'active rest' was in italics...not sure whether at face value or for irony

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

well i saw that 'active rest' was in italics...not sure whether at face value or for irony

I saw "preparation" without the quotes and thought along similar lines ...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Agreed, he definitely knows how to prepare. And meter his effort.

Are you're thinking he can beat Froome?

Does that extend to Astana + Nibbles?

Seems like too much firepower for one man to contend with?

I expect the fight between them. too many different possibilities, from echelons, to cobbles, to long range attacks or a bad day.

I hope Froome has the edge and gets the final yellow. but a Nibali-Contador alliance is not unpossible. they must take Sky by surprise.

I had not even considered the alliance possibility. Apparently collusion is not allowed but I am sure it will be ignored. Agreed on the course attributes - if it's wet or cold anywhere, that would certainly seem to put things in non-Sky teams' favour.

It will certainly be a feat if Contador pulls it off.

 

[deeno1975]

Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

If "Froomey" is as strong as he was two years ago it'll take wind, rain and a tactical master class from Contador to win. "Froomey" is tactically inept and relies on his massive power and "improbable cadence" to get him out of trouble.... Time for a July rain dance...

 

[markene2]

Re: Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

If "Froomey" is as strong as he was two years ago it'll take wind, rain and a tactical master class from Contador to win. "Froomey" is tactically inept and relies on his massive power and "improbable cadence" to get him out of trouble.... Time for a July rain dance...

I am 100 percent convinced that Froomey will find a way to crash out on the cobbles, and Nibali, Quintana and Contador will fight for the victory.

 

[meat puppet]

Re: Re:

If "Froomey" is as strong as he was two years ago it'll take wind, rain and a tactical master class from Contador to win. "Froomey" is tactically inept and relies on his massive power and "improbable cadence" to get him out of trouble.... Time for a July rain dance...

That or 2009 TDF-ish preparation. In terms of ridiculous performances (not transformations), Contador's vulgar display of power back then surely takes the cake in recent years. Cases in point: the headwind attack on the Andorra, Ver-effing-bier, then prodding Klöden over the edge just because, an extremely fast sunday ride up the Ventoux and of course the TT. Kudos.

Either way, given AC's preparation and levels in more recent years, I don't see him beating Froome with power alone this year with the Giro in the legs and 2009 hopefully a no-go area.

 

[SeriousSam]

Contador will never ever be as doped, and as strong, as in 2009 again. Was just a very special doped up year with Lance coming back.

Even Wiggins climbed better that year than in 2012 afaik.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Contador will never ever be as doped, and as strong, as in 2009 again. Was just a very special doped up year with Lance coming back.

Even Wiggins climbed better that year than in 2012 afaik.

The power based on 3-5 climbs graph had Wiggo pegged at the same power, I think.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I'm reading Alberto's between GT recovery article on CN and wondering how the flippin' heck he expects to be Turbo Froome.

I am really struggling to see how he can do it. What's other people's thoughts?

If "Froomey" is as strong as he was two years ago it'll take wind, rain and a tactical master class from Contador to win. "Froomey" is tactically inept and relies on his massive power and "improbable cadence" to get him out of trouble.... Time for a July rain dance...

Not really ,Froome got dropped twice at that tour. He struggled against a very good TJ last week ,who beat him easy on one of the climbs.
If Quintana and Bertie are in decent form Froome will get dropped on at least 2 stages. Nibs is a different matter a unknown factor going up, but he did look impressive climbing in last years tour.
Froomes was good in 2013 but its relative to the competition ,,,,IMO.