Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[gillan1969]

Re: insulting

Dawg at 5.7w/kg

Its sweet to come out of the closet to mock trivial things like a picture.

But you and a few others always seem to disappear from threads faster than a rat off a sinking ship, when the real discussions come up

plea........aase..........why? the insults..............
.........were there is 'real discussion' there is no need for insults

i looked at the picture from a positive perspective


.........it remains proof of nothing .............it could have served a purpose years ago but that time has gone

Mark L

its illutrative and its funny.....so is this

 

[TheSpud]

Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping?

Show me where anyone said that

And if you can't find it, it would be nice to hear an apology. Something like:"I'm sorry I made **** up purely to try and troll the clinic" or words to that effect.

You seem to be smart. I'm sure you can work out the meaning of "alludes to".

Here you go, anyway:
Benotti69 "So bandage equals clean, because as we know the grupetto never dopes, according to Wiggo."

It insinuates that Froome is somehow hiding his doping because he is riding "injured" and would be less apparent.

More obfuscation (re trolling) because The Spud alluded to it. But hey don't let that get in the way.

Indeed, and if you look at the picture Froome has an injured knee, so clearly he was going to be in support mode. But hey, lets just keep trooping out this picture as its clearly central to the argument.

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

 

[Savant12]

Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping?

Show me where anyone said that

And if you can't find it, it would be nice to hear an apology. Something like:"I'm sorry I made **** up purely to try and troll the clinic" or words to that effect.

You seem to be smart. I'm sure you can work out the meaning of "alludes to".

Here you go, anyway:
Benotti69 "So bandage equals clean, because as we know the grupetto never dopes, according to Wiggo."

It insinuates that Froome is somehow hiding his doping because he is riding "injured" and would be less apparent.

More obfuscation (re trolling) because The Spud alluded to it. But hey don't let that get in the way.

Indeed, and if you look at the picture Froome has an injured knee, so clearly he was going to be in support mode. But hey, lets just keep trooping out this picture as its clearly central to the argument.

The Spud did not say anything about "clean" or "doping". You used it as a misinterpretation of what The Spud was saying.

Keep rolling those eyes and add some eye drops because your sight is obviously obscured.

 

[Benotti69]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

The picture points out that Froome having ridden for 3 years at Konica/ Barloworld and a year at Sky was still only a domestique and they were trying to get rid of him to Bruyneel, who said no.

 

[Benotti69]

The Spud did not say anything about "clean" or "doping". You used it as a misinterpretation of what The Spud was saying.

Keep rolling those eyes and add some eye drops because your sight is obviously obscured.

You seem smart, 'alluding', yada yada.....

 

[harryh]

I like this overnight transformation term. You just make the decision that from tomorrow I'm one of the best cyclists in the world for the next, say, five years, and make biiig money. How can any pro cyclist be so stupid not to make the decision.

 

[TheSpud]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

The picture points out that Froome having ridden for 3 years at Konica/ Barloworld and a year at Sky was still only a domestique and they were trying to get rid of him to Bruyneel, who said no.

The picture shows an injured rider giving his bike to the sprinter who had a chance of a stage victory ...

 

[Bronstein]

I remember speaking to Bobby at the end of the Tour of Poland. He was frank.‘Listen, Chris, it’s going to be difficult to get you into the Vuelta. There are other guys that they want to take, but I’m trying to convince them to put you in. It’s between you and Lars Petter Nordhaug.’

...

'Chris, you’re going to the Vuelta. Lars Petter has gotten ill. He’s in bed with a bad flu and he’s on antibiotics now. They’re not going to take a chance with him so they’re taking you instead. You’re in.'

Not even good enough to be a domestique.

 

[thehog]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

The picture points out that Froome having ridden for 3 years at Konica/ Barloworld and a year at Sky was still only a domestique and they were trying to get rid of him to Bruyneel, who said no.

The picture shows an injured rider giving his bike to the sprinter who had a chance of a stage victory ...

So which stage was Froome pushing Henderson to win the stage?

 

[thehog]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

You didn't have a question about his old test data. You stated that if he was 5.7w/kg back in 2007 it would mean he'd have a 'big engine'.

Which I replied that would mean at 70kg in 2007 he would have average watts of around 400w for a FTP test.

This would be impossible that he produced these type of numbers if the test was conducted properly.

What is most worrying is you still don't have a handle on how the value is generated and how weight plays a part in that figure.

 

[TheSpud]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

You didn't have a question about his old test data. You stated that if he was 5.7w/kg back in 2007 it would mean he'd have a 'big engine'.

Which I replied that would mean at 70kg in 2007 he would have average watts of around 400w for a FTP test.

This would be impossible that he produced these type of numbers if the test was conducted properly.

What is most worrying is you still don't have a handle on how the value is generated and how weight plays a part in that figure.

Actually I did have a question (2 in fact) you can check the post here

viewtopic.php?p=1838397#p1838397

I dont have any evidence he was 5.7 - I said that if the data was to show that kind of level (ie i plucked a number out) then wouldnt it support the claims that he had a big engine? And what would your reaction be?

And please dont worry yourself too much, I know exactly how the figure is generated and how weight plays a part thank you - the clue is in the 'watts per kilogram' name. I also note that your response included the 10% gradient for an hour - another Hog 'fact' that was debunked the other day (7.4% etc.).

 

[thehog]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

You didn't have a question about his old test data. You stated that if he was 5.7w/kg back in 2007 it would mean he'd have a 'big engine'.

Which I replied that would mean at 70kg in 2007 he would have average watts of around 400w for a FTP test.

This would be impossible that he produced these type of numbers if the test was conducted properly.

What is most worrying is you still don't have a handle on how the value is generated and how weight plays a part in that figure.

Actually I did have a question (2 in fact) you can check the post here

viewtopic.php?p=1838397#p1838397

I dont have any evidence he was 5.7 - I said that if the data was to show that kind of level (ie i plucked a number out) then wouldnt it support the claims that he had a big engine? And what would your reaction be?

So you plucked out a figure 5.7w/kg but didn't think to translate it into average watts for an FTP test? Wouldn't that tell you 5.7 was not possible as its around what he produces today as super Dawg for a one hour TT?

Perhaps Brailsford was right about pseudoscientists?

The concerning part here is that Froome will release so key data its not one figure that it will come down to. Its how that number was determined and the test undertaken to derive the figure.

What's concerning is that you appear to just want one headline from Froome's data rather than the entire context.

Worrying.

 

[gillan1969]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

You didn't have a question about his old test data. You stated that if he was 5.7w/kg back in 2007 it would mean he'd have a 'big engine'.

Which I replied that would mean at 70kg in 2007 he would have average watts of around 400w for a FTP test.

This would be impossible that he produced these type of numbers if the test was conducted properly.

What is most worrying is you still don't have a handle on how the value is generated and how weight plays a part in that figure.

Actually I did have a question (2 in fact) you can check the post here

viewtopic.php?p=1838397#p1838397

I dont have any evidence he was 5.7 - I said that if the data was to show that kind of level (ie i plucked a number out) then wouldnt it support the claims that he had a big engine? And what would your reaction be?

And please dont worry yourself too much, I know exactly how the figure is generated and how weight plays a part thank you - the clue is in the 'watts per kilogram' name. I also note that your response included the 10% gradient for an hour - another Hog 'fact' that was debunked the other day (7.4% etc.).

I think it's been answered. Firstly, as the figures from 2007 exist and have existed since then...a figure could have been released previously when questions surrounding his provenance were raised. The working assumption is that the figure(s) is being 'se*ed up' by Ritchie Moore...in Gilligan speak. Secondly, if a high number is 'produced' then it will be at odds with the overwhelming evidence that we have already got and which we have seen with our own eyes....therefore it could rightly be viewed with both some suspicion and as a possible outlier to the other evidecne we have...i.e. its plausible but when added to everything else we know doesn't explain how he got so fast...

nothing can explain how he went from not being picked to (virtually) winning a GT...nothing...sorry, nothing natural that is

 

[Benotti69]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

The picture points out that Froome having ridden for 3 years at Konica/ Barloworld and a year at Sky was still only a domestique and they were trying to get rid of him to Bruyneel, who said no.

The picture shows an injured rider giving his bike to the sprinter who had a chance of a stage victory ...

Injured? Road rash counts as an injury? So injured not only did he give his bike but he could also give a push....

The picture illustrates that Froome having ridden for 3 years at Konica/ Barloworld and a year at Sky was still only a domestique and they were trying to get rid of him to Bruyneel, who said no.

 

[thehog]

What I alluded to (actually what I said) was that as an injured rider it would be totally normal for him to give his bike to the uninjured rider (who, as we know was a sprinter, had a chance to win the stage as it was flat).

I never alluded to it meaning he was clean - as I have said, the picture is an irrelevance trooped out by Hog as an argument against my perfectly reasonable question about the old test data.

You didn't have a question about his old test data. You stated that if he was 5.7w/kg back in 2007 it would mean he'd have a 'big engine'.

Which I replied that would mean at 70kg in 2007 he would have average watts of around 400w for a FTP test.

This would be impossible that he produced these type of numbers if the test was conducted properly.

What is most worrying is you still don't have a handle on how the value is generated and how weight plays a part in that figure.

Actually I did have a question (2 in fact) you can check the post here

viewtopic.php?p=1838397#p1838397

I dont have any evidence he was 5.7 - I said that if the data was to show that kind of level (ie i plucked a number out) then wouldnt it support the claims that he had a big engine? And what would your reaction be?

And please dont worry yourself too much, I know exactly how the figure is generated and how weight plays a part thank you - the clue is in the 'watts per kilogram' name. I also note that your response included the 10% gradient for an hour - another Hog 'fact' that was debunked the other day (7.4% etc.).

I think it's been answered. Firstly, as the figures from 2007 exist and have existed since then...a figure could have been released previously when questions surrounding his provenance were raised. The working assumption is that the figure(s) is being 'se*ed up' by Ritchie Moore...in Gilligan speak. Secondly, if a high number is 'produced' then it will be at odds with the overwhelming evidence that we have already got and which we have seen with our own eyes....therefore it could rightly be viewed with both some suspicion and as a possible outlier to the other evidecne we have...i.e. its plausible but when added to everything else we know doesn't explain how he got so fast...

nothing can explain how he went from not being picked to (virtually) winning a GT...nothing...sorry, nothing natural that is

Good post. The point being he did several "in race" FTP tests in TTs and never went anywhere near 5.7w/kg. Why would he produce that type of number in a secret one off test in 2007.

And right you are, the 2011 Vuelta almost never happened for Froome. When he got his chance he most certainly made sure he got his contract renewal!

Although most cyclists would have been more subtle about it!

 

[The Hitch]

Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping?

Show me where anyone said that

And if you can't find it, it would be nice to hear an apology. Something like:"I'm sorry I made **** up purely to try and troll the clinic" or words to that effect.

You seem to be smart. I'm sure you can work out the meaning of "alludes to".

Here you go, anyway:
Benotti69 "So bandage equals clean, because as we know the grupetto never dopes, according to Wiggo."

It insinuates that Froome is somehow hiding his doping because he is riding "injured" and would be less apparent.

No he doesn't.

Absolutely nowhere did anyone say that "Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping", as you claimed.

You pure and simple made it up to troll.

 

[djpbaltimore]

The definition of 'alludes to' does not require a direct reference. It is more often an indirect hint. It is much more subjective than objective. Calling someone a troll repeatedly for something so subjective is off-base IMO.

I do think it would probably be a good idea to retire the photo. Its use often only serves to derail discussions.

 

[Benotti69]

Dawg at 5.7w/kg

No nutella, hand washing, own pillows, pineapple juice, warm ups, warms downs, asthma, an alleged chronic disease and a lack of food supposedly transformed Froome from failing (and falling a lot) domestique to GT winner.

This picture is a great illustration (along with others, crashing into a commissaire, zig zagging up a hill in Italy) that Froome was not a GT hopeful and I mean participant. He only got on La Vuelta'11 team due to another rider's illness.

 

[Irondan]

Please keep the trolling accusations to reports and PM's to mods/admin.

It does nothing to further the conversation and helps to keep the general mood of the thread a little gloomy.

We're (mods/admin) looking at all the comments in this thread with a critical eye and will deal with any trolling/baiting on a case by case basis.

Any actions that may result can take place at a later time, as it takes effort to comprehend the true intent of said comments.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Yes he was (as support for Wiggins), but only just - he almost wasn't fit after crashing in Romandie a few weeks earlier. But never mind that fact.

And at Barloworld, he forgot to bring his big engine? What about that fact?

He had 'transformed' by the time he towed Wiggins around France in 2012. Again never mind the 'transformation' fact!

Barloworld had Sobakawa pillow's once you change that it is a different ballgame.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yes he was (as support for Wiggins), but only just - he almost wasn't fit after crashing in Romandie a few weeks earlier. But never mind that fact.

And at Barloworld, he forgot to bring his big engine? What about that fact?

He had 'transformed' by the time he towed Wiggins around France in 2012. Again never mind the 'transformation' fact!

Barloworld had Sobakawa pillow's once you change that it is a different ballgame.

The supposed 'big engine' only turned up once prior to the 2011 Vuelta. It was for the crazy adaptive test in 2007 at the UCI. What are the odds?

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Yes he was (as support for Wiggins), but only just - he almost wasn't fit after crashing in Romandie a few weeks earlier. But never mind that fact.

And at Barloworld, he forgot to bring his big engine? What about that fact?

He had 'transformed' by the time he towed Wiggins around France in 2012. Again never mind the 'transformation' fact!

Barloworld had Sobakawa pillow's once you change that it is a different ballgame.

The supposed 'big engine' only turned up once prior to the 2011 Vuelta. It was for the crazy adaptive test in 2007 at the UCI. What are the odds?

Really? Do you have a list of absolutely every result of his to be able to verify that?

 

[Savant12]

Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping?

Show me where anyone said that

And if you can't find it, it would be nice to hear an apology. Something like:"I'm sorry I made **** up purely to try and troll the clinic" or words to that effect.

You seem to be smart. I'm sure you can work out the meaning of "alludes to".

Here you go, anyway:
Benotti69 "So bandage equals clean, because as we know the grupetto never dopes, according to Wiggo."

It insinuates that Froome is somehow hiding his doping because he is riding "injured" and would be less apparent.

No he doesn't.

Absolutely nowhere did anyone say that "Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping", as you claimed.

You pure and simple made it up to troll.

Again you missed out on what "alludes to" mean, which I can't help you with unless you want to your own private research into its use.

 

[TheSpud]

Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping?

Show me where anyone said that

And if you can't find it, it would be nice to hear an apology. Something like:"I'm sorry I made **** up purely to try and troll the clinic" or words to that effect.

You seem to be smart. I'm sure you can work out the meaning of "alludes to".

Here you go, anyway:
Benotti69 "So bandage equals clean, because as we know the grupetto never dopes, according to Wiggo."

It insinuates that Froome is somehow hiding his doping because he is riding "injured" and would be less apparent.

No he doesn't.

Absolutely nowhere did anyone say that "Bandage on his knee alludes to his doping", as you claimed.

You pure and simple made it up to troll.

Thats right, no-one said it because if they did it wouldn't be 'alluding to' it would pointing it out.

Alluding to is a little bit like Benotti's response to almost everything "pointing to" doping ...

 

[Irondan]

Please keep all comments impersonal and respectful.

These personal snipes are not going to be tolerated, consider this your warning.