Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[kwikki]

Why would you agreeing with me shock me? You are allowed to disagree with me when you think I'm wrong, and agree with me when you think I'm right



I disagree with much of the lines of argument that sniper takes, even though I agree with his ultimate conclusion. I also respect that he doesn't let things turn into some sort of personal battle and he's not out to bait.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Was Froome wearing a tracksuit? And if he wasn't, what is the relevance of your Hamilton quote?

As a side-issue, are transfusions still in use?

This might shock you, but I'm going to agree with you.

If Froome had just recently had a transfusion(not sure what time is press conference was, but wouldn't the transfusion have been done in the early morning/late afternoon/early evening and wanted to keep warm, wouldn't he have worn something warmer than sleeves?

Or they planned his glow time to coincide with press conferences.

 

[kwikki]

Was it a 6 hour press conference?

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Was Froome wearing a tracksuit? And if he wasn't, what is the relevance of your Hamilton quote?

As a side-issue, are transfusions still in use?

This might shock you, but I'm going to agree with you.

If Froome had just recently had a transfusion(not sure what time is press conference was, but wouldn't the transfusion have been done in the early morning/late afternoon/early evening and wanted to keep warm, wouldn't he have worn something warmer than sleeves?

Or they planned his glow time to coincide with press conferences.

Surely the best glow time is when you're asleep at night. You hope you get tested early enough in the day then let the drugs flow. Wake up before the testing window opens again* and get the prep work down incase the vampires turn up early.

*unless they've moved to a 24 hour testing window. If they haven't they should.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Was Froome wearing a tracksuit? And if he wasn't, what is the relevance of your Hamilton quote?

As a side-issue, are transfusions still in use?

This might shock you, but I'm going to agree with you.

If Froome had just recently had a transfusion(not sure what time is press conference was, but wouldn't the transfusion have been done in the early morning/late afternoon/early evening and wanted to keep warm, wouldn't he have worn something warmer than sleeves?

Or they planned his glow time to coincide with press conferences.

Surely the best glow time is when you're asleep at night. You hope you get tested early enough in the day then let the drugs flow. Wake up before the testing window opens again* and get the prep work down incase the vampires turn up early.

*unless they've moved to a 24 hour testing window. If they haven't they should.

Just throwing it out there. Also Froome might be in the same boat as Armstrong and testing is known in advance and useless.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The night time testing is available for targeted testing during le Tour (certainly during nights spent in France anyway).

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Was Froome wearing a tracksuit? And if he wasn't, what is the relevance of your Hamilton quote?

As a side-issue, are transfusions still in use?

This might shock you, but I'm going to agree with you.

If Froome had just recently had a transfusion(not sure what time is press conference was, but wouldn't the transfusion have been done in the early morning/late afternoon/early evening and wanted to keep warm, wouldn't he have worn something warmer than sleeves?

Or they planned his glow time to coincide with press conferences.

Surely the best glow time is when you're asleep at night. You hope you get tested early enough in the day then let the drugs flow. Wake up before the testing window opens again* and get the prep work down incase the vampires turn up early.

*unless they've moved to a 24 hour testing window. If they haven't they should.

Just throwing it out there. Also Froome might be in the same boat as Armstrong and testing is known in advance and useless.

All things are possible when it comes to doping/knowing what time you're going to be tested. Happened before so who knows, this is cycling after all and all things are possible

Although Sky can't have been tested that much otherwise Brailsford would've called a press conference and handed out copies of the email from the UCI saying 'Thank you for being the best team when it comes to taking doping controls'.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

The night time testing is available for targeted testing during le Tour (certainly during nights spent in France anyway).

Dumb question.

When you say night testing, you mean like 3am?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Was Froome wearing a tracksuit? And if he wasn't, what is the relevance of your Hamilton quote?

As a side-issue, are transfusions still in use?

This might shock you, but I'm going to agree with you.

If Froome had just recently had a transfusion(not sure what time is press conference was, but wouldn't the transfusion have been done in the early morning/late afternoon/early evening and wanted to keep warm, wouldn't he have worn something warmer than sleeves?

First you transfuse, then you lie down for a bit so you don't faint. Then you need to do light exercise to flow the new RBCs through your system and to stop the blood from thickening. You have to dress warm when riding otherwise you'll freeze to death. You then go do press conference, drink a load of water, piss a lot, get measured and then eat. If he was wearing a tracksuit he would have looked completely stupid as the camera lights were hot and the room fall of people in shorts and tshirts.

 

[kwikki]

...and the arm warmers made the difference and kept his core warm.

Genius. Utter genius.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

The night time testing is available for targeted testing during le Tour (certainly during nights spent in France anyway).

Dumb question.

When you say night testing, you mean like 3am?

Yes. It was discussed in the pre-tour briefings, and mentioned in a few articles. A tester can require access anytime overnight.

Maybe it will not happen, or happen only once or twice, but the option is there.
Making any overnight glow a greater risk* than before.



*Assuming the actually WANT to catch people of course.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

The night time testing is available for targeted testing during le Tour (certainly during nights spent in France anyway).

Dumb question.

When you say night testing, you mean like 3am?

Yes. It was discussed in the pre-tour briefings, and mentioned in a few articles. A tester can require access anytime overnight.

Maybe it will not happen, or happen only once or twice, but the option is there.
Making any overnight glow a greater risk* than before.



*Assuming the actually WANT to catch people of course.

Thanks. It would appear I missed that memo.

 

[thehog]

Re:

...and the arm warmers made the difference and kept his core warm.

Genius. Utter genius.

Which is why he is wearing not only arm warmers but a gilet over his jersey. Genius indeed.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/photo-gallery-2016-tour-de-france-first-rest-day/

Perhaps look next time before posting, might save you embarrassment :redface:

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

...and the arm warmers made the difference and kept his core warm.

Genius. Utter genius.

Which is why he is wearing not only arm warmers but a gilet over his jersey. Genius indeed.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/photo-gallery-2016-tour-de-france-first-rest-day/

Perhaps look next time before posting, might save you embarrassment :redface:

You do know what a gilet is, don't you?

They don't come with sleeves

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

...and the arm warmers made the difference and kept his core warm.

Genius. Utter genius.

Which is why he is wearing not only arm warmers but a gilet over his jersey. Genius indeed.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/photo-gallery-2016-tour-de-france-first-rest-day/

Perhaps look next time before posting, might save you embarrassment :redface:

You do know what a gilet is, don't you?

They don't come with sleeves

True. He is actually wearing a non-summer jersey over another jersey or his bibs plus arm warmers! The core must be nice and warm, no chills :lol:

 

[kwikki]

I see. You've got special x-ray vision and can see through Chris Froome's clothes to his undergarments.

Nice one. Enjoy.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I see. You've got special x-ray vision and can see through Chris Froome's clothes to his undergarments.

Nice one. Enjoy.

Who needs to see under his jersey, we can see the top half here and the imprint underneath :lol:

Core is nice and snug as well as the arms on a hot day :geek:

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/photo-gallery-2016-tour-de-france-first-rest-day/

Went to your link, hog. Am pleased to see that 379-year-old Alejandro Valverde has obviously given up transfusing and can pass the 2016 sleeve test. I recall once upon a time a certain "Radio" attempting to claim that Piti was the worst of the Puerto guys. Glad to have this photographic evidence of clean cycling. This is the stuff upon which David Walsh books would be written, if Walsh cared about Spaniards.

I'm quite cheerful. This is a good day for clean cycling.

 

[HSNHSN]

Re: Re:

many here just hope one doper crushes another one, because they hate him oh so much.

instead of talking about arm warmers and hoping Alberto/Quintana/LazarusNibali beat the evil Froome.

So Alberto/Quintana/Nibali are doper #1 in the first quote?

And Froome is doper #2?

So you think Froome is doping too, just that you're ok with it?

oh yes. I am maybe the only Sky fan here thinking that way.

so when I see tweets and posts praising other doped riders and hoping they beat him, all the talk about doping seems a bit strange, no?

and answering to Byop: yes, there is no other solution that make it all crumble. a big huge scandal involving Uci, teams, sponsors, organizers.

I am not wishing for that though, I am ok. I follow as a hobby, a passion, I dont look for revenge, for the truth in cycling.
it´s the handful of posters on here that should be wishing that, if they really want cycling to change. a FULL crash, a fair bust for EVERYBODY.

sky movi tinkoff sagan alberto froome cav kittel zakarin katusha aru nibali. all out, go home. we stop the circus because it´s rotten, we´ve always said that, we are right.

ok, fine.

but dont fycking cheer for a doper and smash another one

My thoughts?

I think you'd have to treat posters here on a case by case basis. Some are sincere, some are not. Some are using this topic as a vehicle to push a nationalist agenda (on both sides), but most are not. Some have a spurious grip on evidence based thought, some are more rigorous. Some are limited by their own lack of imagination, some are creative and lateral thinkers. Some exploit ill-defined concepts and fit the evidence to suit their bias (both sides again).

I take the point you are making, but I'm not sure it is always intentional. I was involved in a thread where somebody was suggesting that British domination of GT'S was suspicious. Some other people jumped on and said "yeah!". I looked at the actual results, and discovered that if you define 'domination' by outright wins then whichever time frame you use the British do not dominate. Even if you limit it to the last 4 years, the Spanish and British are equal first.

Of course, 'domination' probably can't be purely defined as outright wins, but should probably include other placings, so I looked at GC (someone disputed this but it then became apparent they didn't know that GC tends to refer to top ten). What I found is that apart from two GT winners the British are almost totally absent from GC in all 3 GT'S. So on that basis, as much as I would like to be able to say that the British dominate GT cycling it is clear that they don't.

Somebody post a series of snide remarks starting with a sarcastic "good post" criticising the criteria I chose as a definition of 'domination', but failed to offer an alternative (what a surprise).

So, in a nutshell, there are a whole bunch of people coming at this issue from different angles. Some should be listened to and some ignored as idiots (on both sides). It is the internet, and there is no filter on it. People have perceptions....quite naturally...but you have to examine why they have them.

If you make a crude comparison like this, shouldn't you at least take the number of riders of each country into account? If a group of 10 riders takes the same amount of wins as another group of 60 riders (to exaggerate), the group of 10 would be far more impressive.

Also, I don't think only looking at GTs is right. In 2012, it's hard to dispute that Wiggins was really dominant. He even won a bunch sprint that year. But if you just look at GTs, he's "only got one win".

 

[CTQ]

Urticaria, repeat after me, Urticaria. He suffers from Urticaria. so white(cream) on the arm, itchy bumps, long sleeves the day off
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SCOXoqqDH8A/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

The night time testing is available for targeted testing during le Tour (certainly during nights spent in France anyway).

Dumb question.

When you say night testing, you mean like 3am?

Yes. It was discussed in the pre-tour briefings, and mentioned in a few articles. A tester can require access anytime overnight.

Maybe it will not happen, or happen only once or twice, but the option is there.
Making any overnight glow a greater risk* than before.



*Assuming the actually WANT to catch people of course.

I assume French law allowing for night-time testing had something to do with both rest days taking place outside France. As much as any money to host start-finishes, etc. This could be a problem for Pau in coming years.

 

[kwikki]

I see. You've got special x-ray vision and can see through Chris Froome's clothes to his undergarments.

Nice one. Enjoy.

Who needs to see under his jersey, we can see the top half here and the imprint underneath :lol:

Core is nice and snug as well as the arms on a hot day :geek:

That's interesting. I can see a very skinny man, with a jersey, arm warmers, and bibshorts. I've no idea what he is wearing underneath.

Mind you, you might be right. If I had ended an exhausting mountain stage being pelted in an ice-storm, at 2000m, and I had a bodyfat composition of somewhere between 8-12%, I'd be keeping well wrapped up.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

many here just hope one doper crushes another one, because they hate him oh so much.

instead of talking about arm warmers and hoping Alberto/Quintana/LazarusNibali beat the evil Froome.

So Alberto/Quintana/Nibali are doper #1 in the first quote?

And Froome is doper #2?

So you think Froome is doping too, just that you're ok with it?

oh yes. I am maybe the only Sky fan here thinking that way.

so when I see tweets and posts praising other doped riders and hoping they beat him, all the talk about doping seems a bit strange, no?

and answering to Byop: yes, there is no other solution that make it all crumble. a big huge scandal involving Uci, teams, sponsors, organizers.

I am not wishing for that though, I am ok. I follow as a hobby, a passion, I dont look for revenge, for the truth in cycling.
it´s the handful of posters on here that should be wishing that, if they really want cycling to change. a FULL crash, a fair bust for EVERYBODY.

sky movi tinkoff sagan alberto froome cav kittel zakarin katusha aru nibali. all out, go home. we stop the circus because it´s rotten, we´ve always said that, we are right.

ok, fine.

but dont fycking cheer for a doper and smash another one

My thoughts?

I think you'd have to treat posters here on a case by case basis. Some are sincere, some are not. Some are using this topic as a vehicle to push a nationalist agenda (on both sides), but most are not. Some have a spurious grip on evidence based thought, some are more rigorous. Some are limited by their own lack of imagination, some are creative and lateral thinkers. Some exploit ill-defined concepts and fit the evidence to suit their bias (both sides again).

I take the point you are making, but I'm not sure it is always intentional. I was involved in a thread where somebody was suggesting that British domination of GT'S was suspicious. Some other people jumped on and said "yeah!". I looked at the actual results, and discovered that if you define 'domination' by outright wins then whichever time frame you use the British do not dominate. Even if you limit it to the last 4 years, the Spanish and British are equal first.

Of course, 'domination' probably can't be purely defined as outright wins, but should probably include other placings, so I looked at GC (someone disputed this but it then became apparent they didn't know that GC tends to refer to top ten). What I found is that apart from two GT winners the British are almost totally absent from GC in all 3 GT'S. So on that basis, as much as I would like to be able to say that the British dominate GT cycling it is clear that they don't.

Somebody post a series of snide remarks starting with a sarcastic "good post" criticising the criteria I chose as a definition of 'domination', but failed to offer an alternative (what a surprise).

So, in a nutshell, there are a whole bunch of people coming at this issue from different angles. Some should be listened to and some ignored as idiots (on both sides). It is the internet, and there is no filter on it. People have perceptions....quite naturally...but you have to examine why they have them.

If you make a crude comparison like this, shouldn't you at least take the number of riders of each country into account? If a group of 10 riders takes the same amount of wins as another group of 60 riders (to exaggerate), the group of 10 would be far more impressive.

Also, I don't think only looking at GTs is right. In 2012, it's hard to dispute that Wiggins was really dominant. He even won a bunch sprint that year. But if you just look at GTs, he's "only got one win".

I agree, but the post I was responding to was suggesting that British riders are dominating GTs, so that is the dataset I looked at.

Of course your other point about numbers of riders is also interesting and valid, but it also introduces a new criteria. I've no objections to that as long as people are clear about what criteria they are using when they pass judgement. Interestingly, though, there were no GB riders in the last two Girls. Not one. In 2014, there was 1. So, it's a pretty ridiculous claim to make that British riders are dominating GTs. How can they dominate when they don't even rides them

It would be fascinating to look at weighting of success by nationality. If you've got the time, go for it.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Urticaria, repeat after me, Urticaria. He suffers from Urticaria. so white(cream) on the arm, itchy bumps, long sleeves the day off
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SCOXoqqDH8A/maxresdefault.jpg

Charming photograph, those arms aren't skinny enough to be Froome's though

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

many here just hope one doper crushes another one, because they hate him oh so much.

instead of talking about arm warmers and hoping Alberto/Quintana/LazarusNibali beat the evil Froome.

So Alberto/Quintana/Nibali are doper #1 in the first quote?

And Froome is doper #2?

So you think Froome is doping too, just that you're ok with it?

oh yes. I am maybe the only Sky fan here thinking that way.

so when I see tweets and posts praising other doped riders and hoping they beat him, all the talk about doping seems a bit strange, no?

and answering to Byop: yes, there is no other solution that make it all crumble. a big huge scandal involving Uci, teams, sponsors, organizers.

I am not wishing for that though, I am ok. I follow as a hobby, a passion, I dont look for revenge, for the truth in cycling.
it´s the handful of posters on here that should be wishing that, if they really want cycling to change. a FULL crash, a fair bust for EVERYBODY.

sky movi tinkoff sagan alberto froome cav kittel zakarin katusha aru nibali. all out, go home. we stop the circus because it´s rotten, we´ve always said that, we are right.

ok, fine.

but dont fycking cheer for a doper and smash another one

My thoughts?

I think you'd have to treat posters here on a case by case basis. Some are sincere, some are not. Some are using this topic as a vehicle to push a nationalist agenda (on both sides), but most are not. Some have a spurious grip on evidence based thought, some are more rigorous. Some are limited by their own lack of imagination, some are creative and lateral thinkers. Some exploit ill-defined concepts and fit the evidence to suit their bias (both sides again).

I take the point you are making, but I'm not sure it is always intentional. I was involved in a thread where somebody was suggesting that British domination of GT'S was suspicious. Some other people jumped on and said "yeah!". I looked at the actual results, and discovered that if you define 'domination' by outright wins then whichever time frame you use the British do not dominate. Even if you limit it to the last 4 years, the Spanish and British are equal first.

Of course, 'domination' probably can't be purely defined as outright wins, but should probably include other placings, so I looked at GC (someone disputed this but it then became apparent they didn't know that GC tends to refer to top ten). What I found is that apart from two GT winners the British are almost totally absent from GC in all 3 GT'S. So on that basis, as much as I would like to be able to say that the British dominate GT cycling it is clear that they don't.

Somebody post a series of snide remarks starting with a sarcastic "good post" criticising the criteria I chose as a definition of 'domination', but failed to offer an alternative (what a surprise).

So, in a nutshell, there are a whole bunch of people coming at this issue from different angles. Some should be listened to and some ignored as idiots (on both sides). It is the internet, and there is no filter on it. People have perceptions....quite naturally...but you have to examine why they have them.

If you make a crude comparison like this, shouldn't you at least take the number of riders of each country into account? If a group of 10 riders takes the same amount of wins as another group of 60 riders (to exaggerate), the group of 10 would be far more impressive.

Also, I don't think only looking at GTs is right. In 2012, it's hard to dispute that Wiggins was really dominant. He even won a bunch sprint that year. But if you just look at GTs, he's "only got one win".

Not to sound patronising, but that is quite obviously the reason why people from the Sky side always use "gt's" as the measuring bar.

It makes it look a lot less impressive than it actually was, if we pretend that the Vuelta and Giro are of equal value to the Tour and that team clean hasn't been able to win it because they aren't so dominant there.

Its just another example of how deeply ingrained in dishonesty, every single attempt to make Froome look clean, is.