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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
. No emotional investment you see ;)

This particular conversation was specific to if he'll be allowed in this year's tour (legal circumstance permitting) and if so what kind of reception he'll get. Not from the die hard cycling fans to whom this doping debate means a great deal, but the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of casual spectators who line the roads in France every July.

Yes, I get your point about people now 'knowing' but how does that translate to emotions on the side of the road. A few comments on here seemed to suggest that a baying lynch mob awaited him in France should he dare to ride the tour.

I don't believe this is the case, but it is an interesting sub topic for me with my annual trip to the Alps looming in July

Yup, no emotional investment for you, hey brownbobby. And of course, none of those tourist cycling fans and French people lining the TDF route would dream of their hero Dawg lieing to and cheating them of their emotional and monetary investment for 6 years. Nope, they will all cheer Dawg and Sky on to an wheezing win.

After all, nothing to see here, move along (Allez Allez)

Eh?? Never happened before. Oh wait, I see what you're doing now, projecting what you think I want to hear is going to happen to let me know that you know that I'm really just another Sky apologist trying to cover my tracks.

Well played Sir. No fooling you.

Couldn't have said it better myself
 
mod hat on: please refrain from personal attacks. Keep the debate courteous.

mod hat off: a very good point was made: in July, crowds are not 100% French. There are idiots of all nationalities to worry about. The build up to the Tour, the media circus will make him the villain. Add to this the fans of particular riders seeing him as a threat. The ones like me who cheered for LeMond in '86, Riis in '96, Armstrong after '02, not wanting anyone to beat the 5 wins of my favorite rider ever (Eddy). There will be many reasons for "fans" to hate him. The minute he attacks and/or takes the yellow jersey, imagine the reaction.

Yikes.
 
Re: Re:

Alpe73 said:
The Hitch said:
Alpe73 said:
The Hitch said:
brownbobby said:
I don't think the positive test makes one bit of difference in this regard. Those who disliked him before will continue to do so, they thought they knew he was doping already. Those who support him will continue to do so along the lines of 'it's only asthma meds, a mistake, not real doping'

Funny. I remember exactly this same defense mechanism argument from Armstrong loyalists in the week of August 23rd 2012 - this doesn't change anything, those who thought he was clean will still think so and those who thought he was dirty will still think so.

The paralels just never end.

You are right In a way. The 10 people responsible for the 100 or so active accounts on the internet that still defend Froome, will continue to do so. The 80% or so of cycling fans who didn't trust this guy, still don't trust him, though of course the ones who still gave him a tiny benefit of the doubt, now for a fact he is a doping cheat.
The casual fans or none fans who never thought about it now know he is a cheat. The on the take journos and insiders who hid behind "never tested positive" now have to find a new rock.
Some will go full ligget and make up any ridiculous excuse but some will also stop bothering (as we see from mcquaid)

Everything has changed

I've seen a lot of codswallop ... and rubbish dressed up as codswallop ... on this thread ... but this takes the cake.

IF Chris Froome is found, by UCI/WADA, to have broken the rules ... he deserves a punishment commensurate to the infraction. No more, no less ... that's the rules. Reputation, legacy, reputation of the sport, hand wringing, wailing and g-nashing of teeth, biting of chainrings ... meh. The world will turn, the sun will set ... and there'll be lots of pro cycling going on. Bet on it!

Your feable attempts at Pathos (your party congress rant the other day on the Froome thread proletariat versus the capitalist/happyist roaders) and Verecundiam (10/100, 80% outa thin air) elicit the polar opposite response that you solicit. Why? Because rational people, rational posters feel your pathological zeal to BURY an athlete who has yet to be adjudicated by authorities who have jurisdiction.

Froome, like Armstrong, will continue to have MILLIONS of fans. ("Stages" saw over 5 MILLION downloads!) I can see how this would drive you bat **** crazy ... but it's bigger than you, outa your hands brutha.

There are posters on this thread who relish the destruction DESTRUCTION not only of certain Pro athletes, but of the sport itself (Cycling, Athletics).

When you stay between the rails, you create dialogue of merit. But your your Radiogaga ... no one's buying it ...'scept "The Clinic 2 or 3".

I see desperation and frustration all over this post. You are trying, really trying to convince yourself, maybe Even us, that Froome still annoys us. You need this, to know that people still get annoyed by Froome, it would give you peace.

And how you clutch at straws. Yes its the youtube vids. The fact that Froome you claim appears in stages with 5 million youtube hits, you say, surely THAT must annoy and hurt us. Yes. Maybe we struggle to sleep at night because Froome is in vids with 5 million youtube hits.

Really what you long for is to turn back the time. Just 1 week. Oh how great life would be if you could turn back the time 1 week to a world where Froome still hadnt failed the test. Then you could still taunt us with the fact that we would never get him (or so you hoped) and the world would be a more beautiful place for you since you could mock people on the internet that a cheat you liked had escaped and as you say yourself, enjoy the fact that there is nothing we can do about it.

But those days are gone. They got him. But you can keep clutching at those straws. And its you who are powerless now. Powerless to mock us and powerless to turn back the time.

Ain't mockery, mate. Pity.

Was

Its over now.

AInt never coming back.

Though who are you and what made you so great that you supposedly "pity" everyone else?
 
Re: Re:

sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
. No emotional investment you see ;)

This particular conversation was specific to if he'll be allowed in this year's tour (legal circumstance permitting) and if so what kind of reception he'll get. Not from the die hard cycling fans to whom this doping debate means a great deal, but the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of casual spectators who line the roads in France every July.

Yes, I get your point about people now 'knowing' but how does that translate to emotions on the side of the road. A few comments on here seemed to suggest that a baying lynch mob awaited him in France should he dare to ride the tour.

I don't believe this is the case, but it is an interesting sub topic for me with my annual trip to the Alps looming in July

Yup, no emotional investment for you, hey brownbobby. And of course, none of those tourist cycling fans and French people lining the TDF route would dream of their hero Dawg lieing to and cheating them of their emotional and monetary investment for 6 years. Nope, they will all cheer Dawg and Sky on to an wheezing win.

After all, nothing to see here, move along (Allez Allez)

Eh?? Never happened before. Oh wait, I see what you're doing now, projecting what you think I want to hear is going to happen to let me know that you know that I'm really just another Sky apologist trying to cover my tracks.

Well played Sir. No fooling you.

Couldn't have said it better myself

But still you tried. Tried to come up with a new and amusing way to garner some virtual high 5's from your fellow guardians. Shame this isn't Facebook. Shame there isn't a like button so you can gauge your approval ratings for such witty outings of folk.

I give up. No point in trying to convince you guys that I'm not a Skybot.

I have to refer to the words of the Great Prophet "How do you prove a negative"
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
I give up. No point in trying to convince you guys that I'm not a Skybot.
Even if you were a Skybot, we can agree to disagree without filling the air with toxic fumes...it's a forum :) .

I personally don't expect the Froome fans to change their mind so quickly: first, the news have to sink in. Then the tough part: coming to the realization that you have been taken for a ride, accepting that you have been fooled. It doesn't make you an idiot. That unfortunately is what doping/cheating does to fans. In the end, Froome die-hard fans will still like him, like I still like Virenque. Too many memories. But I agree with The HItch that everything has changed. The public at large knows.
 
Re:

sittingbison said:
Panache

Virenque, Jaja, Pirata, Diablo etc got it in spades that's why you (we) still like them

Not Wiggo or Dawg. Panachless
Good point. Being the devil's advocate, I would argue that for a Brit, '13 Ventoux or '15 PSM are glorious. It's in the eyes of each of us. And the running man episode still showed in highlights, although it never happened since Portal went whining to the officials and results were "adjusted". Now for Wiggo...I can't find a glorious moment :eek: . Or maybe him trying to chase Froome :D . Now that was courage.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
brownbobby said:
I give up. No point in trying to convince you guys that I'm not a Skybot.
Even if you were a Skybot, we can agree to disagree without filling the air with toxic fumes...it's a forum :) .

I personally don't expect the Froome fans to change their mind so quickly: first, the news have to sink in. Then the tough part: coming to the realization that you have been taken for a ride, accepting that you have been fooled. It doesn't make you an idiot. That unfortunately is what doping/cheating does to fans. In the end, Froome die-hard fans will still like him, like I still like Virenque. Too many memories. But I agree with The HItch that everything has changed. The public at large knows.

I agree with the Hitch (!) too. it's like I said, knowing he used super fuel, but not having him, Sniper, Digger, Hog, Antoine Vayer, Stokes and co officially say "we were right"
that was the fun part, the sneaky amusement. useless I know.
now everything has changed. I'll keep cheering for Sky like mad (Moscon, Kwiato, Stan, Poels, Bernal etc) but with Froome, with his positive test, it'll be like Alberto fans, blind to the fact he tested positive. I am not blind.
what I mean is I am not deluded, sad, shocked he failed a test. I wasnt fooled. I know how it works.
it happens, it's pro cycling.
it will be less fun, knowing all people praying and wishing he failed a test and got caught have now, rightly, seen their wish come true.
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
. No emotional investment you see ;)

This particular conversation was specific to if he'll be allowed in this year's tour (legal circumstance permitting) and if so what kind of reception he'll get. Not from the die hard cycling fans to whom this doping debate means a great deal, but the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of casual spectators who line the roads in France every July.

Yes, I get your point about people now 'knowing' but how does that translate to emotions on the side of the road. A few comments on here seemed to suggest that a baying lynch mob awaited him in France should he dare to ride the tour.

I don't believe this is the case, but it is an interesting sub topic for me with my annual trip to the Alps looming in July

Yup, no emotional investment for you, hey brownbobby. And of course, none of those tourist cycling fans and French people lining the TDF route would dream of their hero Dawg lieing to and cheating them of their emotional and monetary investment for 6 years. Nope, they will all cheer Dawg and Sky on to an wheezing win.

After all, nothing to see here, move along (Allez Allez)

Eh?? Never happened before. Oh wait, I see what you're doing now, projecting what you think I want to hear is going to happen to let me know that you know that I'm really just another Sky apologist trying to cover my tracks.

Well played Sir. No fooling you.

Couldn't have said it better myself

But still you tried. Tried to come up with a new and amusing way to garner some virtual high 5's from your fellow guardians. Shame this isn't Facebook. Shame there isn't a like button so you can gauge your approval ratings for such witty outings of folk.

I give up. No point in trying to convince you guys that I'm not a Skybot.

I have to refer to the words of the Great Prophet "How do you prove a negative"

No one needs to prove anything. 99 out of 100 accounts that posted like you turned out to be exactly what sittinbison claims you are.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but sittingbison is free to believe something about you without having to prove it. You cant control what he thinks.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
sittingbison said:
Panache

Virenque, Jaja, Pirata, Diablo etc got it in spades that's why you (we) still like them

Not Wiggo or Dawg. Panachless
Good point. Being the devil's advocate, I would argue that for a Brit, '13 Ventoux or '15 PSM are glorious. It's in the eyes of each of us. And the running man episode still showed in highlights, although it never happened since Portal went whining to the officials and results were "adjusted". Now for Wiggo...I can't find a glorious moment :eek: . Or maybe him trying to chase Froome :D . Now that was courage.

The thing is, it is hard to erase good memories. And similarly for many danes still, Riis' 96 win will cause a great smile on their face, myself included. Not all of course. Even though we know now that he was doped with EPO, blood bags and other substances.
Likewise, I still get bitter when thinking of Michael Rasmussens disqualification in 07. I remember feeling gutted at the time because that Tour de France was the most exciting race, I had seen in a long time. And it still is for me, even though I now wonder how I, at the time, could get so exited and totally disregard the absurdity in the performance of the duo.
At the time, in the immediate dissapointment, Contador was the bad guy for me, but I have later realised what a great rider he really was again in spite of the difficulty in believing that the Clenbuterol should be from a beef.

I am pretty sure, that I will never change my stance on Sky and Froome in that way. I didn't enjoy them when they calculated and machine-like strangled all competition in the Tour de France and I won't enjoy it in the future, if they try. Because they wanted us to believe they were the best by a distance while being different, and stubbornly stuck to more and more far-fetched explanations to their extreme domination. While everybody who had followed cycling for some years could not find one example of such a case not involving some kind of doping.

That is indeed lack of panache, arrogance and somehow a (very unfortunate) misunderstanding of the history of the sport.
 
Re: Re:

Yup, no emotional investment for you, hey brownbobby. And of course, none of those tourist cycling fans and French people lining the TDF route would dream of their hero Dawg lieing to and cheating them of their emotional and monetary investment for 6 years. Nope, they will all cheer Dawg and Sky on to an wheezing win.

After all, nothing to see here, move along (Allez Allez)[/quote]

Eh?? Never happened before. Oh wait, I see what you're doing now, projecting

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but sittingbison is free to believe something about you without having to prove it. You cant control what he thinks.[/quote]
[/b]

Once again, your hypocrisy astounds
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
sittingbison said:
Panache

Virenque, Jaja, Pirata, Diablo etc got it in spades that's why you (we) still like them

Not Wiggo or Dawg. Panachless
Good point. Being the devil's advocate, I would argue that for a Brit, '13 Ventoux or '15 PSM are glorious. It's in the eyes of each of us. And the running man episode still showed in highlights, although it never happened since Portal went whining to the officials and results were "adjusted". Now for Wiggo...I can't find a glorious moment :eek: . Or maybe him trying to chase Froome :D . Now that was courage.

You present the Devils advocate view very well I think.

Your earlier comments almost acknowledge that, eh, we don't like doping, but it happens. So if you're gonna do it, do it with panache, don't take the piss too much, and were still gonna like what we like.

Now, you have to understand that for some, I'd even say most, in the U.K., panache isn't something we care so much about. I'm not just talking cycling here, I'm talking sport in general. What we do love is a good story. And we like winners. If we find someone who wins things, and sells us a good story, overcoming a tough upbringing, adversity in earlier life, overcoming all obstacles to achieve greatness, then for some we've got a hero.

Now we've all seen through all this, we've done our research, we've been with the story from the start. We know it's all BS. But for everyone of us, there are many more who think they know Chris Froome because they read the climb. He fits the bill. If only he was actually born in the U.K., and he did something other than ride a bike, he'd be our perfect hero. But we still like him. We still gonna cheer for him when he's showing all those foreigners what British courage and ambition can achieve.

In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking. He's had more column inches in the UK this week than he's had in the previous 5 years, but outside of the specialist press, and the inner circle of 'proper' cycling fans, the number of messages of support, the "eh we believe in you Chris" plastered across social media is overwhelmingly positive for him.

Don't forget cycling has grown enormously in the U.K. In recent years. The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud.

I'm not going to try and tell you where I stand on this. You think what you think.

But I'm on the ground in the UK, I'm amongst the cycling fans, new and old. This is my report of how it's looking in my little corner of the British Isles. Froome ain't dead yet. He's very much alive and kicking.

Only time will tell for how long he stays that way.
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
Tonton said:
sittingbison said:
Panache

Virenque, Jaja, Pirata, Diablo etc got it in spades that's why you (we) still like them

Not Wiggo or Dawg. Panachless
Good point. Being the devil's advocate, I would argue that for a Brit, '13 Ventoux or '15 PSM are glorious. It's in the eyes of each of us. And the running man episode still showed in highlights, although it never happened since Portal went whining to the officials and results were "adjusted". Now for Wiggo...I can't find a glorious moment :eek: . Or maybe him trying to chase Froome :D . Now that was courage.

You present the Devils advocate view very well I think.

Your earlier comments almost acknowledge that, eh, we don't like doping, but it happens. So if you're gonna do it, do it with panache, don't take the piss too much, and were still gonna like what we like.

Now, you have to understand that for some, I'd even say most, in the U.K., panache isn't something we care so much about. I'm not just talking cycling here, I'm talking sport in general. What we do love is a good story. And we like winners. If we find someone who wins things, and sells us a good story, overcoming a tough upbringing, adversity in earlier life, overcoming all obstacles to achieve greatness, then for some we've got a hero.

Now we've all seen through all this, we've done our research, we've been with the story from the start. We know it's all BS. But for everyone of us, there are many more who think they know Chris Froome because they read the climb. He fits the bill. If only he was actually born in the U.K., and he did something other than ride a bike, he'd be our perfect hero. But we still like him. We still gonna cheer for him when he's showing all those foreigners what British courage and ambition can achieve.

In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking. He's had more column inches in the UK this week than he's had in the previous 5 years, but outside of the specialist press, and the inner circle of 'proper' cycling fans, the number of messages of support, the "eh we believe in you Chris" plastered across social media is overwhelmingly positive for him.

Don't forget cycling has grown enormously in the U.K. In recent years. The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud.

I'm not going to try and tell you where I stand on this. You think what you think.

But I'm on the ground in the UK, I'm amongst the cycling fans, new and old. This is my report of how it's looking in my little corner of the British Isles. Froome ain't dead yet. He's very much alive and kicking.

Only time will tell for how long he stays that way.

Good post.
 
Re: Re:

pastronef said:
I agree with the Hitch (!) too. it's like I said, knowing he used super fuel, but not having him, Sniper, Digger, Hog, Antoine Vayer, Stokes and co officially say "we were right"
that was the fun part, the sneaky amusement. useless I know.
now everything has changed. I'll keep cheering for Sky like mad (Moscon, Kwiato, Stan, Poels, Bernal etc) but with Froome, with his positive test, it'll be like Alberto fans, blind to the fact he tested positive. I am not blind.
what I mean is I am not deluded, sad, shocked he failed a test. I wasnt fooled. I know how it works.
it happens, it's pro cycling.
it will be less fun, knowing all people praying and wishing he failed a test and got caught have now, rightly, seen their wish come true.
Fair enough. I respect your candor. And as an anti-Sky, I don't feel like rubbing it in. It's sad. And like ahsoe wrote, for fans of the sport, these races, these memories mean a lot. These are moments in our life. Regardless of who we root for. As much as I'm happy that the fraud is being exposed, I feel bad for the Froome fans. Bitter-sweet...
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Fair enough. I respect your candor. And as an anti-Sky, I don't feel like rubbing it in. It's sad. And like ahsoe wrote, for fans of the sport, these races, these memories mean a lot. These are moments in our life. Regardless of who we root for. As much as I'm happy that the fraud is being exposed, I feel bad for the Froome fans. Bitter-sweet...

thank you. I must add that following the people who know about pro cycling on twitter and in the Clinic sometimes I forget what Ahsoe said:
"In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking.[...] The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud."
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
You present the Devils advocate view very well I think.

Your earlier comments almost acknowledge that, eh, we don't like doping, but it happens. So if you're gonna do it, do it with panache, don't take the piss too much, and were still gonna like what we like.

Now, you have to understand that for some, I'd even say most, in the U.K., panache isn't something we care so much about. I'm not just talking cycling here, I'm talking sport in general. What we do love is a good story. And we like winners. If we find someone who wins things, and sells us a good story, overcoming a tough upbringing, adversity in earlier life, overcoming all obstacles to achieve greatness, then for some we've got a hero.

Now we've all seen through all this, we've done our research, we've been with the story from the start. We know it's all BS. But for everyone of us, there are many more who think they know Chris Froome because they read the climb. He fits the bill. If only he was actually born in the U.K., and he did something other than ride a bike, he'd be our perfect hero. But we still like him. We still gonna cheer for him when he's showing all those foreigners what British courage and ambition can achieve.

In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking. He's had more column inches in the UK this week than he's had in the previous 5 years, but outside of the specialist press, and the inner circle of 'proper' cycling fans, the number of messages of support, the "eh we believe in you Chris" plastered across social media is overwhelmingly positive for him.

Don't forget cycling has grown enormously in the U.K. In recent years. The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud.

I'm not going to try and tell you where I stand on this. You think what you think.

But I'm on the ground in the UK, I'm amongst the cycling fans, new and old. This is my report of how it's looking in my little corner of the British Isles. Froome ain't dead yet. He's very much alive and kicking.

Only time will tell for how long he stays that way.
Good post. "only time will tell". I'm no Brit and won't venture arguing with you about the mindset in the UK, although what you describe (winning/story) is not unique to the UK...Lance was the same thing: big story, big winner. At the same stage, he received a lot of support too. Time wasn't on his side...
 
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Well, delusional tribalism will obviously not go away, ever, but the Sky-are-cleanliest-but-beware-of-dodgy-foreigners- they- dope narrative is dead now at the mainstream media level. There's no going back whatever happens to Froome.
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
Tonton said:
sittingbison said:
Panache

Virenque, Jaja, Pirata, Diablo etc got it in spades that's why you (we) still like them

Not Wiggo or Dawg. Panachless
Good point. Being the devil's advocate, I would argue that for a Brit, '13 Ventoux or '15 PSM are glorious. It's in the eyes of each of us. And the running man episode still showed in highlights, although it never happened since Portal went whining to the officials and results were "adjusted". Now for Wiggo...I can't find a glorious moment :eek: . Or maybe him trying to chase Froome :D . Now that was courage.

You present the Devils advocate view very well I think.

Your earlier comments almost acknowledge that, eh, we don't like doping, but it happens. So if you're gonna do it, do it with panache, don't take the piss too much, and were still gonna like what we like.

Now, you have to understand that for some, I'd even say most, in the U.K., panache isn't something we care so much about. I'm not just talking cycling here, I'm talking sport in general. What we do love is a good story. And we like winners. If we find someone who wins things, and sells us a good story, overcoming a tough upbringing, adversity in earlier life, overcoming all obstacles to achieve greatness, then for some we've got a hero.

Now we've all seen through all this, we've done our research, we've been with the story from the start. We know it's all BS. But for everyone of us, there are many more who think they know Chris Froome because they read the climb. He fits the bill. If only he was actually born in the U.K., and he did something other than ride a bike, he'd be our perfect hero. But we still like him. We still gonna cheer for him when he's showing all those foreigners what British courage and ambition can achieve.

In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking. He's had more column inches in the UK this week than he's had in the previous 5 years, but outside of the specialist press, and the inner circle of 'proper' cycling fans, the number of messages of support, the "eh we believe in you Chris" plastered across social media is overwhelmingly positive for him.

Don't forget cycling has grown enormously in the U.K. In recent years. The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud.

I'm not going to try and tell you where I stand on this. You think what you think.

But I'm on the ground in the UK, I'm amongst the cycling fans, new and old. This is my report of how it's looking in my little corner of the British Isles. Froome ain't dead yet. He's very much alive and kicking.

Only time will tell for how long he stays that way.

To the bold the jingoistic hubris and corporate prepotency, whilst claiming the high moral ground, makes Sky and British Cycling's comeuppance so savory.
 
Re:

SeriousSam said:
Well, delusional tribalism will obviously not go away, ever, but the Sky-are-cleanliest-but-beware-of-dodgy-foreigners- they- dope narrative is dead now at the mainstream media level. There's no going back whatever happens to Froome.
Exactly. While brownbobby presented what (s)he considerd the benevolent side of the story more or less accurately, here is the underbelly, which isnt an unfortunate excess but part of the deal: tribalism cum nationalism with corporate sponsorship.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
brownbobby said:
You present the Devils advocate view very well I think.

Your earlier comments almost acknowledge that, eh, we don't like doping, but it happens. So if you're gonna do it, do it with panache, don't take the piss too much, and were still gonna like what we like.

Now, you have to understand that for some, I'd even say most, in the U.K., panache isn't something we care so much about. I'm not just talking cycling here, I'm talking sport in general. What we do love is a good story. And we like winners. If we find someone who wins things, and sells us a good story, overcoming a tough upbringing, adversity in earlier life, overcoming all obstacles to achieve greatness, then for some we've got a hero.

Now we've all seen through all this, we've done our research, we've been with the story from the start. We know it's all BS. But for everyone of us, there are many more who think they know Chris Froome because they read the climb. He fits the bill. If only he was actually born in the U.K., and he did something other than ride a bike, he'd be our perfect hero. But we still like him. We still gonna cheer for him when he's showing all those foreigners what British courage and ambition can achieve.

In the microclimate of the Clinic, His fate is sealed. He's busted. Done. But step outside into the wider world, and he's still very much alive and kicking. He's had more column inches in the UK this week than he's had in the previous 5 years, but outside of the specialist press, and the inner circle of 'proper' cycling fans, the number of messages of support, the "eh we believe in you Chris" plastered across social media is overwhelmingly positive for him.

Don't forget cycling has grown enormously in the U.K. In recent years. The casual cycling fan, the ones who know all they need to know about Froome from reading his biography, far outnumbers the 'real' cycling fans. And their voices are just as loud.

I'm not going to try and tell you where I stand on this. You think what you think.

But I'm on the ground in the UK, I'm amongst the cycling fans, new and old. This is my report of how it's looking in my little corner of the British Isles. Froome ain't dead yet. He's very much alive and kicking.

Only time will tell for how long he stays that way.
Good post. "only time will tell". I'm no Brit and won't venture arguing with you about the mindset in the UK, although what you describe (winning/story) is not unique to the UK...Lance was the same thing: big story, big winner. At the same stage, he received a lot of support too. Time wasn't on his side...

It is not unique at all. It is called nationalism.

I can see pretty much similar stories all over the place in other sports. Most of the Norwegians don't think their XC skiing stars Therese Johaug (18 months ban for steroids from lipcream) or Martin Johnsrud Sundby (Salbutamol from Nebuliser) has done anything wrong. They are seen as victims. Same for Russians inside Russia in general.

But it doesn't mean the rest of the world needs to agree and hail for the nationalism shown. The contrary.

In some other countries the situation is very different though. In my home country any fellow countryman that gets busted is immediate cheat, regardless of who (s)he is and what has been taken. I guess we are in general pragmatic and sceptical.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
No one needs to prove anything. 99 out of 100 accounts that posted like you turned out to be exactly what sittinbison claims you are.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but sittingbison is free to believe something about you without having to prove it. You cant control what he thinks.

Yeah but one is not allowed to make personal attack such as calling someone a bot or whatever. We can think what we want.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
The Hitch said:
No one needs to prove anything. 99 out of 100 accounts that posted like you turned out to be exactly what sittinbison claims you are.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but sittingbison is free to believe something about you without having to prove it. You cant control what he thinks.

Yeah but one is not allowed to make personal attack such as calling someone a bot or whatever. We can think what we want.

To be fair he didn't. I called myself that to save him the job!
 

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