Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Lo squalo di messina]

Re: Re:

Greg pulls no punches, as ever.

I'm still intrigued as to the Salbutamol though. Does it make sense for it to be used mid Vuelta for illegimate purposes? Pre-tour
maybe, but mid-race? There is then the question of Froome's guaranteed testing. It strikes me that he was either just unbelievably careless with the puffer on the day, or there is a whole backstory to this. I haven't heard of anybody talking about a Salbutamol doping protocol that fits this case.

Oh well. If they hurry up and get this sorted maybe we'll be spared another year of Brailsford's nonsense.

Poor Greg; cycling's Cassandra. I can't think of anything he's gotten wrong, but nobody ever seems to trust or believe him.

As for Froome... <shrug> The why he got caught is probably not so important, and likely has a mundane explanation. Something along the lines of lining up the days meds and not realizing he grabbed a Salbutamol pill along with everything else.

John Swanson

Man up and admit you believed all that sky nonsense like a naive child. A mundane explanation :lol:

 

[Blanco]

Re:

It's good to see Pound shooting from the hip again - I know he's often called by the media for 'rent a quote' but at times he passes comment on a case in which he has limited intimate knowledge - Will agree that there is a chance WADA will appeal if Froome escapes sanction from the UCI.

With Reedie as a president, I don't think so..

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

It's good to see Pound shooting from the hip again - I know he's often called by the media for 'rent a quote' but at times he passes comment on a case in which he has limited intimate knowledge - Will agree that there is a chance WADA will appeal if Froome escapes sanction from the UCI.

With Reedie as a president, I don't think so..

Reedie is hard at work changing the rules for Froome

 

[rick james]

Greg back in some good books...until the next time I suppose

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It's good to see Pound shooting from the hip again - I know he's often called by the media for 'rent a quote' but at times he passes comment on a case in which he has limited intimate knowledge - Will agree that there is a chance WADA will appeal if Froome escapes sanction from the UCI.

With Reedie as a president, I don't think so..

I will preface this by saying, I am assuming Pound is all over the tweak to how lab's will measure concentrations of USG from March 1, 2018.

Pound is an influential figure so he may pull a few strings - Anyway think Reedie is a lightweight who has little influence

 

[ontheroad]

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

Mathieu VDP spoke. even though I think his father sent him to bed without dinner when he read the news
Martin also backtracked a bit.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

It's good to see Pound shooting from the hip again - I know he's often called by the media for 'rent a quote' but at times he passes comment on a case in which he has limited intimate knowledge - Will agree that there is a chance WADA will appeal if Froome escapes sanction from the UCI.

With Reedie as a president, I don't think so..

I will preface this by saying, I am assuming Pound is all over the tweak to how lab's will measure concentrations of USG from March 1, 2018.

Pound is an influential figure so he may pull a few strings - Anyway think Reedie is a lightweight who has little influence

Reedie gave the Russians a free run in London and Sochi. He is the right man in the right position to tap up when you need to modify the rules on the run.

 

[macbindle]

Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

Does anybody really believe that many, if any, of the top riders don't dope?

Froome is suspected because of the 2011 'transformation'. What this really means is that prior to 2011 he was either clean, or not doping to the max. Would he be regarded in a kinder light if he'd done what the other top riders did and dope from the beginning?

Sorry, I don't believe the sport has cleaned up, I just believe the doping is more sophisticated, more expensive and kept more secret. The only things I'm interested in knowing about Froome are what doping he uses and how the hell he afforded to start laying down the money for it in 2011 when he was on a mediocre salary.

 

[Breh]

Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

Mathieu Van Der Poel said Froome should be suspended.
Dumoulin said Sunweb would've suspended him if he were in the same situation. He added that things work differently with Sky so....

 

[Mayo from Mayo]

Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

Following the Reichenbach 'accident' reticence may be due to something other than omerta.

 

[huge]

Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

That has nothing to do with omerta.

Unless you imply that Nibali was a witness and knows exactly what Froome did, but denies any knowledge.
That would be omerta.

Being cautious during the interviews, not attacking Froome, is just being sensible, especially after the arguments they had in the past. He has nothing to gain in lashing out against the Briton. But I do understand that media are crying to get Nibali say anything that could light a fire.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

That has nothing to do with omerta.

Unless you imply that Nibali was a witness and knows exactly what Froome did, but denies any knowledge.
That would be omerta.

Being cautious during the interviews, not attacking Froome, is just being sensible, especially after the arguments they had in the past. He has nothing to gain in lashing out against the Briton. But I do understand that media are crying to get Nibali say anything that could light a fire.

This is kind of a key element of Omerta.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

That has nothing to do with omerta.

Unless you imply that Nibali was a witness and knows exactly what Froome did, but denies any knowledge.
That would be omerta.

Being cautious during the interviews, not attacking Froome, is just being sensible, especially after the arguments they had in the past. He has nothing to gain in lashing out against the Briton. But I do understand that media are crying to get Nibali say anything that could light a fire.

This is kind of a key element of Omerta.

Omerta is not related to personal gain (unless for personal gain you mean protecting yourself).
In its original meaning, it is fueled by either fear or, if part of a criminal organization, to protect the organization itself from the authorities.

Btw, it's omertà, with an accent on the last one, in its original form

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

That has nothing to do with omerta.

Unless you imply that Nibali was a witness and knows exactly what Froome did, but denies any knowledge.
That would be omerta.

Being cautious during the interviews, not attacking Froome, is just being sensible, especially after the arguments they had in the past. He has nothing to gain in lashing out against the Briton. But I do understand that media are crying to get Nibali say anything that could light a fire.

This is kind of a key element of Omerta.

Omerta is not related to personal gain (unless for personal gain you mean protecting yourself).
In its original meaning, it is fueled by either fear or, if part of a criminal organization, to protect the organization itself from the authorities.

Btw, it's omertà, with an accent on the last one, in its original form

The orignal meaning of Mafia has evolved. Most mafia money nowadays is made from legitimate business, where they invested their ill gotten fortunes into legit business.

Omertà in sport does not mean death if broken.

 

[red_flanders]

It means code of silence in this context. It is fueled by fear, self imterest, common interest, common guilt, and a desire to protect one's friends and associates.

 

[Breh]

Re: Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

Mathieu Van Der Poel said Froome should be suspended.
Dumoulin said Sunweb would've suspended him if he were in the same situation. He added that things work differently with Sky so....

Add Bakelants(ofcourse) to the list.

 

[movingtarget]

The French have never minded taking pot shots after rivals test positive as it's part of the whole French teams are cleaner commentary. It's interesting that when the French lack of performance in grand tours since the 80s is bought up, doping is rarely mentioned but you can sense that a lot more would like to be said. It's often said that the French riders on French teams were spoiled too much, their budgets were too low to compete and their techniques regarding training and nutrition were out of date.

How much French cycling has been cleaned up if at all is hard to say. There are still riders making podiums in grand tours but they never win them and hardly ever win classics or even the better one week stage races or world titles. After what the French said about Armstrong before during and after his reign, not much has been said about Sky and Froome by the French teams since he started dominating stage racing except for one or two individuals every now and then making comments. But you get the feeling that as damaging to the sport the Froome news is, French cycling is quite pleased because the domination of their national race by another foreigner for many years if not proven to be a totally fraudulent performance has enough stench about it to make it smell like Armstrong version two even if the details and circumstances and methods are different. The Wiggins revelations and a few others just add fuel to the fire.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The French have never minded taking pot shots after rivals test positive as it's part of the whole French teams are cleaner commentary. It's interesting that when the French lack of performance in grand tours since the 80s is bought up, doping is rarely mentioned but you can sense that a lot more would like to be said. It's often said that the French riders on French teams were spoiled too much, their budgets were too low to compete and their techniques regarding training and nutrition were out of date.

How much French cycling has been cleaned up if at all is hard to say. There are still riders making podiums in grand tours but they never win them and hardly ever win classics or even the better one week stage races or world titles. After what the French said about Armstrong before during and after his reign, not much has been said about Sky and Froome by the French teams since he started dominating stage racing except for one or two individuals every now and then making comments. But you get the feeling that as damaging to the sport the Froome news is, French cycling is quite pleased because the domination of their national race by another foreigner for many years if not proven to be a totally fraudulent performance has enough stench about it to make it smell like Armstrong version two even if the details and circumstances and methods are different. The Wiggins revelations and a few others just add fuel to the fire.

The French have a right to claim some form of cleanness. They are the only cycling nation to have their own passport in the longitude compulsory monthly blood testing. The AFLD are very serious about anti-doping. It’s basically comparing the SNCF to British Rail - night and day

 

[Merckx index]

I'm surprised no one commented about one strange thing about that picture of Lemond with Froome. Lemond I believe is about 3" or 8 cm. shorter than Froome, but in that picture, they appear the same height. Was it photoshopped? Was Lemond standing on some kind of platform?

 

[CTQ]

Re:

I'm surprised no one commented about one strange thing about that picture of Lemond with Froome. Lemond I believe is about 3" or 8 cm. shorter than Froome, but in that picture, they appear the same height. Was it photoshopped? Was Lemond standing on some kind of platform?

Maybe because we’ve already seen better pics than this one .....
like the pic on this article https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/interview-greg-lemond-re-found-place-tour-de-france.html

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Does anybody really believe that many, if any, of the top riders don't dope?

As has always been the case, clean riders are in there giving it their best shot. Sure, you don't know who they are immediately, always. But, to just write off the entire peloton as doping isn't accurate. More importantly, it gives actual dopers an excuse to steal from clean riders.

 

[DirtyWorks]

2012 -> 2018 About 5 years since the start of this thread. I'll give it another 5 years for the wheels to come off.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

Does anybody really believe that many, if any, of the top riders don't dope?

As has always been the case, clean riders are in there giving it their best shot. Sure, you don't know who they are immediately, always. But, to just write off the entire peloton as doping isn't accurate. More importantly, it gives actual dopers an excuse to steal from clean riders.

Yes. So the ‘clean’ rider is unknowable ... even if he never tests positive. But even like the soon-to-be-found-actual doper, he will always fall under suspicion, by someone. The doping rider is only ‘known’ after a positive test or other non- test evidence. As a race organiser, you can never guarantee a clean field ... (unless you had some type of PED-omnipotent-omniscient MRI device that riders would parade through before signing in .... :surprised: . They could all be doping or none could be doping. Same for many sports, I suppose. This is the narrative that has been written. Riders understand those parameters and react ... the way they decide to react. Implicit is a voluntary assumption of risk.

You can always rely upon the ye olde Western Canon to frame a response to cheating in sport. Few really bad guys and lots of good guys who have been abused. Maybe something’s lost in translation.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

Former star cyclist calls for a ban for Froome. Meanwhile not one current rider to the best of my knowledge has spoken out against Froome. Nibali came closest to any sort of rebuttal before he backtracked again. Long live omerta.

That has nothing to do with omerta.

Unless you imply that Nibali was a witness and knows exactly what Froome did, but denies any knowledge.
That would be omerta.

Being cautious during the interviews, not attacking Froome, is just being sensible, especially after the arguments they had in the past. He has nothing to gain in lashing out against the Briton. But I do understand that media are crying to get Nibali say anything that could light a fire.

This is kind of a key element of Omerta.

A reasonably expected, often forgivable and sometimes admirable behaviour (depending upon the context) that has served people well from the school yard, to the sports arena, to the battlefield. More commonly known as ‘just STF up’ .... if you’ve never indulged, bit hard to wrap your brain around it ... know what I mean.