Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
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Bolder said:Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
Brullnux said:You don't go from losing a minute on a 40s climb four days after a crash to winning on the zoncolan three days later just because you've recovered from a crash. It's not a magical thing from which you wake up and go "oh, i'm back to normal now".brownbobby said:Saint Unix said:What's the verdict on today's stage?
A) Prednisolone
B) EPO
C) Motor
D) Blood bag
E) Cheeky puff on the ol' inhaler
F) All of the above
G) The best GC rider in the world recovering from crashes and riding into form just like he said he would
Amazinmets87 said:Bolder said:Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
Human physiology says it was the former
Come on, don't make me laugh. A sudden drop in form is much easier to explain than a sudden rise, obviously.Oude Geuze said:Amazinmets87 said:Bolder said:Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
Human physiology says it was the former
How so? Genuine question. Chaves went from looking like the best climber in the peloton to getting dropped on muritos, did he run out of PEDs or does it only work one way?
TommyGun said:I just put this here:
http://www.climbing-records.com/2018/05/froome-resurrected-on-zoncolan.html
What a freaking joke... And this counts for both Yates and Froome!
We can hope...Gigs_98 said:At least we now probably don't have to care about the salbutamol case anymore as he probably just handed the UCI a sample of EPO with urine residues
Climbing said:I thought Nibali 2016 recover was a bit unbelievable, but this must be something else entirely.
My money is on Chaves becoming sick. Maybe related to a restday refill or botched doping. But garden variety sickness explains his drop.Oude Geuze said:Amazinmets87 said:Bolder said:Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
Human physiology says it was the former
How so? Genuine question. Chaves went from looking like the best climber in the peloton to getting dropped on muritos, did he run out of PEDs or does it only work one way?
This. Do you have any knowledge of fatigue-induced drop in red blood cell counts? The only (legal) way to restore blood cells is through rest. And no, a rest day (in which riders generally train anyway) is not a sufficient amount of time.LaFlorecita said:Come on, don't make me laugh. A sudden drop in form is much easier to explain than a sudden rise, obviously.Oude Geuze said:Amazinmets87 said:Bolder said:Either he doesn't GAF anymore and went for it pharmaceutically, or he really did have good legs today. Heart says it was the latter...head hopes it wasn't the first...
Human physiology says it was the former
How so? Genuine question. Chaves went from looking like the best climber in the peloton to getting dropped on muritos, did he run out of PEDs or does it only work one way?
Oh, if the argument is he's been doping the entire race and didn't significantly increase intake of PEDs for this specific stage, different story. That viewpoint holds plausibility.Oude Geuze said:Contador last vuelta, Nibali in the ‘16 giro are two recent examples. I find it hard to believe he just started doping yesterday and made insane progress. Why wait until now when it’s more suspicious to suddenly get a boost than being strong all the way? What would you need to take for such an improvement? Corticosteroids, high dose salbutamol, tramadol and a blood bag? Did they suddenly stop testing stage winners and top 10 in the giro? And if it’s all TUE, then that’s pretty much what they all do so why did Froome improve so much?
Alternatively, Froome came into the giro regularly TUE’ed up, a bit undercooked and then fell twice, but gradually recovered after rest day and two easy days. To say that’s physiologically impossible seems strange.
Oude Geuze said:Contador last vuelta, Nibali in the ‘16 giro are two recent examples. I find it hard to believe he just started doping yesterday and made insane progress. Why wait until now when it’s more suspicious to suddenly get a boost than being strong all the way? What would you need to take for such an improvement? Corticosteroids, high dose salbutamol, tramadol and a blood bag? Did they suddenly stop testing stage winners and top 10 in the giro? And if it’s all TUE, then that’s pretty much what they all do so why did Froome improve so much?
Alternatively, Froome came into the giro regularly TUE’ed up, a bit undercooked and then fell twice, but gradually recovered after rest day and two easy days. To say that’s physiologically impossible seems strange.
silvergrenade said:Fastest evers ascents on Monte Zoncolan (2007-2018):
1. 39:03 Simoni
2. 39:03 Piepoli
3. 39:10 A. Schleck
4. 39:34 Di Luca
5. 39:40 Cunego
6. 39:58 Froome
7. 40:04 S. Yates
8. 40:21 Pozzovivo
9. 40:22 Cuapio
10. 40:23 M.A. Lopez
High level today!
Stratospheric!
I'm sure he'll TT up the leaderboard next time he goes up big Z. :lol:Breh said:silvergrenade said:Fastest evers ascents on Monte Zoncolan (2007-2018):
1. 39:03 Simoni
2. 39:03 Piepoli
3. 39:10 A. Schleck
4. 39:34 Di Luca
5. 39:40 Cunego
6. 39:58 Froome
7. 40:04 S. Yates
8. 40:21 Pozzovivo
9. 40:22 Cuapio
10. 40:23 M.A. Lopez
High level today!
Stratospheric!
Where is the legendary climber Dumoulin on that list?
This. It just makes sense. Slightly undercooked and hampered by some swelling and muscle soreness, maybe some bad sleep after the crashes. Now his form is getting there and the soreness is gone. Of course, that's not to say he's not doping, but it's most probably just his normal program. Beating Yates, Pozzovivo and Lopez by a few seconds, is hardly Ventoux 2013 or PSM 2015 type levels either. Much more in line with his best form of the last two years.Oude Geuze said:Contador last vuelta, Nibali in the ‘16 giro are two recent examples. I find it hard to believe he just started doping yesterday and made insane progress. Why wait until now when it’s more suspicious to suddenly get a boost than being strong all the way? What would you need to take for such an improvement? Corticosteroids, high dose salbutamol, tramadol and a blood bag? Did they suddenly stop testing stage winners and top 10 in the giro? And if it’s all TUE, then that’s pretty much what they all do so why did Froome improve so much?
Alternatively, Froome came into the giro regularly TUE’ed up, a bit undercooked and then fell twice, but gradually recovered after rest day and two easy days. To say that’s physiologically impossible seems strange.
Applied to a rider with a different history, maybe. But applied to froome it amounts to just smuggling in a premise that he developed in a regular manner, ie erasing his history. It amounts to arguing that there is more to froome than doping. This is a big leap of faith.DFA123 said:This. It just makes sense. Slightly undercooked and hampered by some swelling and muscle soreness, maybe some bad sleep after the crashes. Now his form is getting there and the soreness is gone. Of course, that's not to say he's not doping, but it's most probably just his normal program. Beating Yates, Pozzovivo and Lopez by a few seconds, is hardly Ventoux 2013 or PSM 2015 type levels either. Much more in line with his best form of the last two years.Oude Geuze said:Contador last vuelta, Nibali in the ‘16 giro are two recent examples. I find it hard to believe he just started doping yesterday and made insane progress. Why wait until now when it’s more suspicious to suddenly get a boost than being strong all the way? What would you need to take for such an improvement? Corticosteroids, high dose salbutamol, tramadol and a blood bag? Did they suddenly stop testing stage winners and top 10 in the giro? And if it’s all TUE, then that’s pretty much what they all do so why did Froome improve so much?
Alternatively, Froome came into the giro regularly TUE’ed up, a bit undercooked and then fell twice, but gradually recovered after rest day and two easy days. To say that’s physiologically impossible seems strange.
He climbed the zoncolan a minute faster than robobasso, three days after getting dropped and losing 40s to Osimo. I could believe if it were 10-20s, but 40s is not just average soreness that you get over quickly, unless Froome is genuinely made of glass. You don't make that transformation that quickly. Don't get me wrong, I do think the crashes have hampered him, but he needed some seriously strong painkiller or blood booster to improve his performance to this extent so quicklyDFA123 said:This. It just makes sense. Slightly undercooked and hampered by some swelling and muscle soreness, maybe some bad sleep after the crashes. Now his form is getting there and the soreness is gone. Of course, that's not to say he's not doping, but it's most probably just his normal program. Beating Yates, Pozzovivo and Lopez by a few seconds, is hardly Ventoux 2013 or PSM 2015 type levels either. Much more in line with his best form of the last two years.Oude Geuze said:Contador last vuelta, Nibali in the ‘16 giro are two recent examples. I find it hard to believe he just started doping yesterday and made insane progress. Why wait until now when it’s more suspicious to suddenly get a boost than being strong all the way? What would you need to take for such an improvement? Corticosteroids, high dose salbutamol, tramadol and a blood bag? Did they suddenly stop testing stage winners and top 10 in the giro? And if it’s all TUE, then that’s pretty much what they all do so why did Froome improve so much?
Alternatively, Froome came into the giro regularly TUE’ed up, a bit undercooked and then fell twice, but gradually recovered after rest day and two easy days. To say that’s physiologically impossible seems strange.