Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LaFlorecita]

So for those who said a suddenly great performance after being poor for two full weeks wasn't suspicious - how do you explain today?
Yesterday's performance stands out like a sore thumb

 

[fmk_RoI]

Now that is perspective.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Now this is super weird. There are few ways to get a one-off boost that has no real impact on your subsequent performance.

You're right, I'm not aware of any doping methods that work for one day only.

I am aware of countless examples of riders who are not in the kind of form needed for a sustained GC challenge, burying themselves to win an important stage and then paying for it the next day.

So what we're saying is this shows he's not doping, Yeah?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Now this is super weird. There are few ways to get a one-off boost that has no real impact on your subsequent performance.

You're right, I'm not aware of any doping methods that work for one day only.

I am aware of countless examples of riders who are not in the kind of form needed for a sustained GC challenge, burying themselves to win an important stage and then paying for it the next day.

Of all those riders, how many managed to pull it off from the favourites' group instead of getting in a break for their one-off effort? Pantani in 2000? How many had really been trying their hardest and struggling every day to remain in contention, instead of easing up for a few days and then giving it a go? And how many were talking openly about how they were fine now and they were back in the GC race?

 

[Serpentin]

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Now this is super weird. There are few ways to get a one-off boost that has no real impact on your subsequent performance.

You're right, I'm not aware of any doping methods that work for one day only.

I am aware of countless examples of riders who are not in the kind of form needed for a sustained GC challenge, burying themselves to win an important stage and then paying for it the next day.

Of all those riders, how many managed to pull it off from the favourites' group instead of getting in a break for their one-off effort? Pantani in 2000? How many had really been trying their hardest and struggling every day to remain in contention, instead of easing up for a few days and then giving it a go? And how many were talking openly about how they were fine now and they were back in the GC race?

Agreed. The organisation gave him one “motor exemption” pass and Dawg used it on the Zoncolon

Goes to show RCS didn’t need to buy Froome for the race, they already had a great Giro with Yates & co.

 

[DanielSong39]

It was a one-off; Sky was allowed to save face for the day but I guess they had to put the motors away.

It's not just Froome; it was the entire team.

 

[JosephK]

Agreed that today's sudden reversion to pre-Zonc form for Froome is strange. Illness maybe? I think there could be non-doping, or non-mechanical-doping, explanations. Other contenders have suddenly been losing form in this Giro (Chaves, Aru). -- Not sure what it means, but it is interesting. After yesterday, I didn't think there was any chance of something like this happening with Froome.

 

[saganftw]

wasnt this expected before giro? that froome will tone it down a notch,seems to me like whatever he is on,he is a few pegs below his usuall doping program,thats why he can do world class performances one or two times but will pay for it later as opose to being a machine for three weeks...just like Poels,who all of a sudden found his climbing legs on Zoncolan,only to look like a prime candidate for heart attack today

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Terrible at Osimo, world's best at Zonc, terrible again today.
I think this has something to do with mechanical doping.

Why would any governing body give cheaters the leverage against them by pretty much openly ignoring motor use?

If Froome is allowed to use a motor once, he is probably allowed to use it anytime he wants, because even a GT stage won with a help of a motor will have huge consequences for the governing body should it ever come to light.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Terrible at Osimo, world's best at Zonc, terrible again today.
I think this has something to do with mechanical doping.

Why would any governing body give cheaters the leverage against them by pretty much openly ignoring motor use?

If Froome is allowed to use a motor once, he is probably allowed to use it anytime he wants, because even a GT stage won with a help of a motor will have huge consequences for the governing body should it ever come to light.

I don't know, his peformance just looks very strange to me. It staggered me. I don't know how this is possible with normal doping.

 

[DanielSong39]

And it's not just Froome, the entire team has followed Froome's performance level the last few stages.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

This. Yesterday was a huge effort for a rider who is getting towards top shape, but not quite there yet. Plus, Froome nearly always goes terribly when there is rain in the air.

Obviously everything about Froome is a bit ridiculous and massively suspicious, but a big effort followed by a drop off the next day, would actually be kind of what you would expect from a rider recovering naturally.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

And it's not just Froome, the entire team has followed Froome's performance level the last few stages.

Highly paid pre TDF training block for team leader and superdomestique all going to plan is my guess

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

This. Yesterday was a huge effort for a rider who is getting towards top shape, but not quite there yet. Plus, Froome nearly always goes terribly when there is rain in the air.

Obviously everything about Froome is a bit ridiculous and massively suspicious, but a big effort followed by a drop off the next day, would actually be kind of what you would expect from a rider recovering naturally.

When you say "recovering naturally"...

I don't find anything about the guy natural.

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

This. Yesterday was a huge effort for a rider who is getting towards top shape, but not quite there yet. Plus, Froome nearly always goes terribly when there is rain in the air.

Obviously everything about Froome is a bit ridiculous and massively suspicious, but a big effort followed by a drop off the next day, would actually be kind of what you would expect from a rider recovering naturally.

Exactly right. The main action of most forms of doping is increased ability to recover and go again. The exact opposite of what we've seen from Froome over the last 2 days. So for once, there seems to be evidence that does the opposite of point to doping.

And the theory that Sky were given a one day pass to get the motorbikes out....seriously, have a word with yourselves :lol:

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

This. Yesterday was a huge effort for a rider who is getting towards top shape, but not quite there yet. Plus, Froome nearly always goes terribly when there is rain in the air.

Obviously everything about Froome is a bit ridiculous and massively suspicious, but a big effort followed by a drop off the next day, would actually be kind of what you would expect from a rider recovering naturally.

When you say "recovering naturally"...

I don't find anything about the guy natural.

Me neither.

I just think that too often there is a scattergun approach regarding Froome and Clinic issues, looking to pin everything that happens to him on clinic issues, which murkies the water a bit and gives his apologists stuff to counter with and scream 'witchhunt'. There is more than enough hard data, contradictions, failed tests and other concrete stuff to bury him, without focusing on speculation about a slight dip in form the day after a huge effort.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Now this is super weird. There are few ways to get a one-off boost that has no real impact on your subsequent performance.

You're right, I'm not aware of any doping methods that work for one day only.

I am aware of countless examples of riders who are not in the kind of form needed for a sustained GC challenge, burying themselves to win an important stage and then paying for it the next day.

So what we're saying is this shows he's not doping, Yeah?

And important to note he pulled off his exploit on a stage they planned far in advance. https://youtu.be/DkKMH3DI3pw And still he only gained a fistfull of seconds.

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

I don`t get it how he could set that time on the Zoncolan and be crap today.

Fatigue? Not saying it isn't weird how he was so strong yesterday, but I don't find it weird that he fell back off today.

This. Yesterday was a huge effort for a rider who is getting towards top shape, but not quite there yet. Plus, Froome nearly always goes terribly when there is rain in the air.

Obviously everything about Froome is a bit ridiculous and massively suspicious, but a big effort followed by a drop off the next day, would actually be kind of what you would expect from a rider recovering naturally.

When you say "recovering naturally"...

I don't find anything about the guy natural.

Me neither.

I just think that too often there is a scattergun approach regarding Froome and Clinic issues, looking to pin everything that happens to him on clinic issues, which murkies the water a bit and gives his apologists stuff to counter with and scream 'witchhunt'. There is more than enough hard data, contradictions, failed tests and other concrete stuff to bury him, without focusing on speculation about a slight dip in form the day after a huge effort.

Agree with this 100%. I'm actually less convinced of Froome's doping and even a little bit sympathetic towards him since joining this forum. Some of the mud that gets slung at him is just ridiculous, as you say there's enough to be suspicious about for everyone to see, without all the nonsense that gets piled on top.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The story so far:

Bad form first half of race: with Cookson gone he can't dope

Pulls off planned exploit: he's doping

Collapses next day: he was allowed to use a motor by Vegni

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

The story so far:

Bad form first half of race: with Cookson gone he can't dope

Pulls off planned exploit: he's doping

Collapses next day: he was allowed to use a motor by Vegni

Nailed it in 30 words :lol:

 

[DanielSong39]

Actually people were pushing the motor story after the planned exploit.

 

[hrotha]

Of course it's going to look less suspicious if you frame it as big performance > bad performance, instead of as lots of bad performances > big performance > bad performance.

 

[thehog]

The only question remaining is... will Froome share his appearence fee with his teammates?