Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[L'arriviste]

Re: Re:

I suspect this will end in tears for the ASO - Will add the ASO could have made this decision weeks ago - Colour me cynical.

With Boonen's case as precedent, it does not look good for ASO, but Prdhomme has nailed his colours firmly to the mast. If something happens to Froome or a Sky rider, this might well end up backfiring spectacularly.

Posted this before but it's more relevant than ever now:

The appetite for an ex post facto scandal in the post-Armstrong era is certainly lower but it should be noted anyway that Boonen's situation was very different. His doping case with the UCI was already concluded at the time, he wasn't a GC contender with the potential to put another asterisk on the board and the UCI screwed ASO by providing evidence to the court that ASO had already decided to greenlight Boonen before backtracking. This last seemed to be the deciding criterion according to a lawyer who was interviewed after the hearing.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Could ASO have any idea that a ban is coming?

Unlikely at best.

I agree with that. But they are all sailing in a leaky old ship and more leaks are to be expected. More likely, I think, it's for the French press and media - "at least we tried." There are lots of scenarios in which this may backfire spectacularly for ASO and the Tour.

 

[bambino]

Could ASO have any idea that a ban is coming?

Unlikely at best.

I agree with that. But they are all sailing in a leaky old ship and more leaks are to be expected. More likely, I think, it's for the French press and media - "at least we tried." There are lots of scenarios in which this may backfire spectacularly for ASO and the Tour.

Yep. I think the pressure inside France has been at the level where ASO felt they have to at least try to ban him.

 

[hfer07]

I'm glad with the ASO stand on Froome- too late & controversial to be well understood, but certainly they have the right to prevent him from racing Le Tour, mostly because the UCI forced their hand to act in such way due to the long decision on his case. We simply cannot have in Pro-Cycling cases like Froome's to be dragged for months due to money & politics, putting races results in limbo, just because lawyers & sponsors have powers to maneuver doping cases to make the most of it in favor of their clients, as the situation fits in.......

Froome should have never been allowed to start Il Giro to begin with, Let alone Win it and now go to Le Tour with impunity ready to win it as well.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

I suspect this will end in tears for the ASO - Will add the ASO could have made this decision weeks ago - Colour me cynical.

With Boonen's case as precedent, it does not look good for ASO, but Prdhomme has nailed his colours firmly to the mast. If something happens to Froome or a Sky rider, this might well end up backfiring spectacularly.

Big difference in 'race reputation' between a classics rider and one with four tdf's already under his belt. i.e. the damage to the reputation of the race is precisely in the possibility of a winner who loses the win in lieu of a ban. The reputation of the race is clearly damaged not only in that moment, but in every moment where that possibility remains a real potential.

I think they clearly have a case.

With respect to Yaco's point, I think the late timing was very strategic, to prevent a CAS appeal.

 

[The Hegelian]

And since we're in the clinic, I would like to see him race - it would be insane if he was competitive in the 3rd week, given how GC stars like Contador, Evans and Quintana have crumbled attempting the double, and how deep everyone went in the last week of the Giro.

 

[rick james]

What happens if Froome get banned from the TDF yet wins his abnormal reading case....Lawerys would have a field day with ASO

 

[bambino]

Re:

What happens if Froome get banned from the TDF yet wins his abnormal reading case....Lawerys would have a field day with ASO

Don't think that would be an issue if the verdict is not available before TdF start. I don't think you can have very solid legal case based on information that was not available at the time of any decision.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Article 29 (ASO)
(in compliance with UCI),
“ASO expressly reserves the right to refuse the participation in – or disqualify from – the event, a team or one of its members whose presence is liable to damage the image or reputation of ASO or those of the event.”

a bit like chicken/vino

 

[Mayo from Mayo]

Re: Re:

I suspect this will end in tears for the ASO - Will add the ASO could have made this decision weeks ago - Colour me cynical.

With Boonen's case as precedent, it does not look good for ASO, but Prdhomme has nailed his colours firmly to the mast. If something happens to Froome or a Sky rider, this might well end up backfiring spectacularly.

Big difference in 'race reputation' between a classics rider and one with four tdf's already under his belt. i.e. the damage to the reputation of the race is precisely in the possibility of a winner who loses the win in lieu of a ban. The reputation of the race is clearly damaged not only in that moment, but in every moment where that possibility remains a real potential.

I think they clearly have a case.

With respect to Yaco's point, I think the late timing was very strategic, to prevent a CAS appeal.

With absolutely no evidence I believe that ASO and Sky have been playing chicken. ASO have been hoping for a silent ban with Froome withdrawn for spurious illness or injury while threatening to exclude him. When Sky's team became known to ASO they moved to try to exclude.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

I suspect this will end in tears for the ASO - Will add the ASO could have made this decision weeks ago - Colour me cynical.

With Boonen's case as precedent, it does not look good for ASO, but Prdhomme has nailed his colours firmly to the mast. If something happens to Froome or a Sky rider, this might well end up backfiring spectacularly.

Big difference in 'race reputation' between a classics rider and one with four tdf's already under his belt. i.e. the damage to the reputation of the race is precisely in the possibility of a winner who loses the win in lieu of a ban. The reputation of the race is clearly damaged not only in that moment, but in every moment where that possibility remains a real potential.

I think they clearly have a case.

With respect to Yaco's point, I think the late timing was very strategic, to prevent a CAS appeal.

As far as I've understood, ASO can't enforce the ban before the official listing of riders from the team to ASO. That I guess is the primary reason for the late timing.

Furthermore the appeals for ASO banning for disrepute does not go to CAS, but to some sort of Chamber of sport arbitration of France according to ASO rules.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Re:

And since we're in the clinic, I would like to see him race - it would be insane if he was competitive in the 3rd week, given how GC stars like Contador, Evans and Quintana have crumbled attempting the double, and how deep everyone went in the last week of the Giro.

Same. Not a fan of Froome but very intrigued to see how his Double attempt unfolds. Many believe the double is physically impossible in modern cycling; however, if any rider is up for the challenge it's Froome

 

[wrinklyvet]

I'm glad with the ASO stand on Froome- too late & controversial to be well understood, but certainly they have the right to prevent him from racing Le Tour, mostly because the UCI forced their hand to act in such way due to the long decision on his case. We simply cannot have in Pro-Cycling cases like Froome's to be dragged for months due to money & politics, putting races results in limbo, just because lawyers & sponsors have powers to maneuver doping cases to make the most of it in favor of their clients, as the situation fits in.......

Froome should have never been allowed to start Il Giro to begin with, Let alone Win it and now go to Le Tour with impunity ready to win it as well.

There is nothing more political than this ASO decision and those who distrust lawyers and money will be disappointed to note that again it will be beneficial to be a sports lawyer! I think the idea that lawyers manipulate the length or complexity of cases to feather their own nests is attractive and occasionally true, but do you have to be a lawyer to take a more dispassionate view and particularly that someone in Froome's position is entitled to do what it takes to achieve what seems best, within the rules?

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

Apparently, ASO is prohibiting Froome from starting in the Tour. (le monde)

It's a brave move. Whatever your opinion of Froome or his likely chances in the case, nothing is better calculated to damage the image of ASO or the event than excluding him would.

Fully agree.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

And since we're in the clinic, I would like to see him race - it would be insane if he was competitive in the 3rd week, given how GC stars like Contador, Evans and Quintana have crumbled attempting the double, and how deep everyone went in the last week of the Giro.

There is an extra week this year so that means the Dawg is A OK and infact, he could do the treble.

 

[brownbobby]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

 

[Summoned]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

How is excluding Froome going to bring ASO into disrepute? Their stated motivations are pretty clear, andthe precedent of excluding Astana in 2008 despite the guilty riders no longer being part of the team does not seem to have brought them into disrepute. I would say that was an arguably much less fair decision.

 

[Huapango]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

I'm so happy that I might watch the tour this year, after years of not doing so.

 

[JosephK]

I'm glad with the ASO stand on Froome- too late & controversial to be well understood, but certainly they have the right to prevent him from racing Le Tour, mostly because the UCI forced their hand to act in such way due to the long decision on his case. We simply cannot have in Pro-Cycling cases like Froome's to be dragged for months due to money & politics, putting races results in limbo, just because lawyers & sponsors have powers to maneuver doping cases to make the most of it in favor of their clients, as the situation fits in.......

Froome should have never been allowed to start Il Giro to begin with, Let alone Win it and now go to Le Tour with impunity ready to win it as well.

This. Chapeau! . . . I think ASO's stand is late because they have to know the official team entrants before they can ban one (or all) of the team's riders. Would be even funnier if they told the entire team Sky to "talk to the hand." . . .
"I got your jiffy bag right here, Sir Dave."

 

[MatParker117]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

They risk potentially pissing off one of their broadcast partners as well.

 

[JosephK]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

Or lauded for having the cojones to bring cycling out of the mud for a few weeks.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Can ASO be charged with bringing themselves and cycling into disrepute

They risk potentially pissing off one of their broadcast partners as well.

next year the anglo broadcasters could just shun the TdF and put on a 3 week Tour of Britain instead
oops sorryTour de Britain.

 

[samhocking]

Big risk on ASO.
They are attempting to block a rider not yet found guilty of an ADRV that shouldn't even be public. The damage is the person who leaked it 100 times more than anything Froome or UCI is or isn't doing.
End of the day ASO are attempting to block a rider who is only in theory, able to damage the race directly himself. Unless Sky or UCI say who leaked this, Froome is riding. Froome isn't the droid Purdhomme is looking for.

 

[hfer07]

I'm glad with the ASO stand on Froome- too late & controversial to be well understood, but certainly they have the right to prevent him from racing Le Tour, mostly because the UCI forced their hand to act in such way due to the long decision on his case. We simply cannot have in Pro-Cycling cases like Froome's to be dragged for months due to money & politics, putting races results in limbo, just because lawyers & sponsors have powers to maneuver doping cases to make the most of it in favor of their clients, as the situation fits in.......

Froome should have never been allowed to start Il Giro to begin with, Let alone Win it and now go to Le Tour with impunity ready to win it as well.

There is nothing more political than this ASO decision and those who distrust lawyers and money will be disappointed to note that again it will be beneficial to be a sports lawyer! I think the idea that lawyers manipulate the length or complexity of cases to feather their own nests is attractive and occasionally true, but do you have to be a lawyer to take a more dispassionate view and particularly that someone in Froome's position is entitled to do what it takes to achieve what seems best, within the rules?

Well, ASO is "entitled" to do what it takes to protect their race from another scandal-within the rules too-and they're simply exercising the right to prevent him from starting Le Tour, according to Article 29 below:

Article 29 (ASO)
(in compliance with UCI),
“ASO expressly reserves the right to refuse the participation in

– or disqualify from – the event, a team or one of its members whose presence is liable to damage the image or reputation of ASO or those of the event.”

 

[samhocking]

'Liable' is the key word. Can Froome be liable for damage before being innocent or guilty?