Froome Vs. Contador

[buchanan]

I posted a few replies above to LaFlorecita showing why she is wrong in her remarks to Taxus, but unfortunately they did not appear..

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I posted a few replies above to LaFlorecita showing why she is wrong in her remarks to Taxus, but unfortunately they did not appear..

This forum has a filter that can detect most hogwash post.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Who cares. We had already seen them compete against each other before the 2014 Tour. It didn't matter what sort of form Froome was showing up with.

If we clinge to the idea that Bertie was ready to improve like in 2009 between the Dauphine and the Tour, then yes, 100%

Huh? What was so special about 2009 compared to 2007, 2010 and 2013? Every single time he has done Dauphiné and Tour, he has clearly improved, especially so the years where he won the Tour. On the other hand, both times Froome has won the Tour he also won Dauphiné. Based on that alone, it is reasonable to assume that Contador would improve more between Dauphiné and the Tour than Froome would.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Replying to Taxus post from the Froome thread:

And there is an objetve fact, Tour is by far the most important race in cycling today. And Contador has bever even be close to Froome in le Tour.

But the Tour is not the only race in the world. There are other races in which Contador annihilated Froome and there are also circumstances that can explain why Contador was never close to Froome in the Tour (well actually in the 2 times they both raced)

According what we see in Dauohine 2014 and the second stage of le Tour, Froome was stroger, no much estronger, but a little stronger.

In your subjective opinion maybe.

We can just speculate, this year will be important, but to read some things is hard for amy objetive person. But that is the time contador was close to him in the main objetive of the season for them.we can talk about other year as well,

We know their build-ups were completely different, Contador had had a much longer break yet Froome couldn't drop him and when Contador got some miles in his legs he again completely crushed Froome, not even funny it was so easy, like taking candy from a child.

Bottom line: don't try to twist the truth to make it seem like Contador's season is not as long or hard. State the facts.

Froome was stronger than Contador on stages 1 and 2 of the Dauphine, before Contador smashed a crash affected Froome. Yes, Froome's performance was pathetic after the crash, but no denying that Contador wasn't stronger before Froome's little fall.

Also, what ever the reasons, the fact remains that the GTs are what matter, and CF dominated AC in the 2013 and 2015 Tours, and AC dominated CF in 2012 and 2014 Vueltas. Period.

Don't speculate on the 2014 Tour, because as good as AC was, CF was also closer to his 2013 form than he was last year

Who cares. We had already seen them compete against each other before the 2014 Tour. It didn't matter what sort of form Froome was showing up with.

Andalusia, where Froome ended up winning GC, Dauphine, where Froome looked stronger until his crash, and Catalunya, where it was too cold for Froome to really show his form (and that's still a higher level of objectivity than most of the posts in here )

But yeah, Contador looked better in catalunya, they looked at a similar level in andalusia, and froome looked better in dauphine until his crash. What there suggests that Contador was clearly going to beat Froome in the Tour

 

[bajbar]

Re: Re:

Replying to Taxus post from the Froome thread:

And there is an objetve fact, Tour is by far the most important race in cycling today. And Contador has bever even be close to Froome in le Tour.

But the Tour is not the only race in the world. There are other races in which Contador annihilated Froome and there are also circumstances that can explain why Contador was never close to Froome in the Tour (well actually in the 2 times they both raced)

According what we see in Dauohine 2014 and the second stage of le Tour, Froome was stroger, no much estronger, but a little stronger.

In your subjective opinion maybe.

We can just speculate, this year will be important, but to read some things is hard for amy objetive person. But that is the time contador was close to him in the main objetive of the season for them.we can talk about other year as well,

We know their build-ups were completely different, Contador had had a much longer break yet Froome couldn't drop him and when Contador got some miles in his legs he again completely crushed Froome, not even funny it was so easy, like taking candy from a child.

Bottom line: don't try to twist the truth to make it seem like Contador's season is not as long or hard. State the facts.

Froome was stronger than Contador on stages 1 and 2 of the Dauphine, before Contador smashed a crash affected Froome. Yes, Froome's performance was pathetic after the crash, but no denying that Contador wasn't stronger before Froome's little fall.

Also, what ever the reasons, the fact remains that the GTs are what matter, and CF dominated AC in the 2013 and 2015 Tours, and AC dominated CF in 2012 and 2014 Vueltas. Period.

Don't speculate on the 2014 Tour, because as good as AC was, CF was also closer to his 2013 form than he was last year

Who cares. We had already seen them compete against each other before the 2014 Tour. It didn't matter what sort of form Froome was showing up with.

Andalusia, where Froome ended up winning GC, Dauphine, where Froome looked stronger until his crash, and Catalunya, where it was too cold for Froome to really show his form (and that's still a higher level of objectivity than most of the posts in here )

But yeah, Contador looked better in catalunya, they looked at a similar level in andalusia, and froome looked better in dauphine until his crash. What there suggests that Contador was clearly going to beat Froome in the Tour

Andalusia was 2015... In 2014 Froome did not take a single second off Contador on any mountain stage through the whole season (excluding the Vuelta). This tells a lot...

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Mb about Andalusia

But excluding the Vuelta, they only faced off at the Dauphine and Catalunya. Catalunya was a fair bit of time away from the Tour (although Contador was better yes), and Froome was on top of Contador both on stages 1 and 2 of the dauphine before his crash, which was the closest to a battle between top form Froome and top form Contador.

I'm not saying Froome would have beaten Contador at the 2014 Tour, but equally, saying Contador would have won the 2014 Tour barring crashes is also ridiculous

 

[buchanan]

Re:

Let's not generalise man, that ain't nice. It's mostly fleur and blurr (i like to call them "fleur and her gang") who have that narrative. and they're very vocal on it so i get your point

But there are very reasonable contador fans who rate froome very highly and admit he beat Contador many times without making any excuses.

Yes Miburo, I agree, not all his fans. But definitely Flo and ray j willings. They just cannot bring themselves to admit that he ever gets beaten fair and square.
I am one of Contador's fans who like you say rates Froome highly and can admit he has beaten Contador many times.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

It's hard facing the truth sometimes.

4 more weeks for that beast prologue in the dauphine, can't wait

If he's where he should be at, he'll take the yellow day 1.

If it was a stage with a MTF, I don't think he'd necessarily win due to the 8 weeks break but he's just the fastest climber on MTTs.

so you drop your notorious theory of froome having en enourmous edge due to racing romandie as bertie will 100% beat him in the prologue?

Didn't know 2014 Dauphiné started with a MTT ?
I clearly emphasized, if it was a normal mountain stage, he'd not win due to the 8 weeks break.

Sigh.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Then they keep going on about the 2014 Vuelta being the only fair comparison, not understanding Froome had been injured and was using it to get a Grand Tour in his legs for the next year. Flo is the worst at doing that.

Yes, Froome had been injured, just like Contador, by the way.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

It's hard facing the truth sometimes.

4 more weeks for that beast prologue in the dauphine, can't wait

Remember it doesnt count if He doesnt assume His ultimate peak form.

LOL it's so true. I am a big AC fan and really hope he can win the Tour this year. But to his diehard fans on this forum, unless Contador is in the absolute form of his life none of his results and losses to Froome count.

2013 season and losses to Froome? Doesn't count!
Froome easily beating him in the 2014 Dauphine prologue? No Contador was better because we say so!
Froome winning the next day MTF in the 2014 Dauphine with Contador 2nd and hanging on for dear life? No, we don't care, Contador was still better!
Froome beating Contador in Andalusia in 2015? No we don't count that because he was going for the Giro or something.

Then they keep going on about the 2014 Vuelta being the only fair comparison, not understanding Froome had been injured and was using it to get a Grand Tour in his legs for the next year. Flo is the worst at doing that.

Still going on about the Froome was riding Vuelta 2014 to get a GT in his legs for 2015. lool.

But fair enough, let's count 2013 and everything, Contador beat Froome in Vuelta 12', Catalunya 14', Dauphiné 14', Vuelta 14', Catalunya 15', Catalunya 16'. Lel.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Then they keep going on about the 2014 Vuelta being the only fair comparison, not understanding Froome had been injured and was using it to get a Grand Tour in his legs for the next year. Flo is the worst at doing that.

Yes, Froome had been injured, just like Contador, by the way.

Also I think Contador was riding Vuelta 14' to prepare for the Giro 15', wasn't he?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Let's not generalise man, that ain't nice. It's mostly fleur and blurr (i like to call them "fleur and her gang") who have that narrative. and they're very vocal on it so i get your point

But there are very reasonable contador fans who rate froome very highly and admit he beat Contador many times without making any excuses.

Yes Miburo, I agree, not all his fans. But definitely Flo and ray j willings. They just cannot bring themselves to admit that he ever gets beaten fair and square.
I am one of Contador's fans who like you say rates Froome highly and can admit he has beaten Contador many times.

Quit spreading lies about me.
Froome has beaten Contador fairly on a few occasions. Of course he has, why would it not be fair. Contador simply wasn't in top shape, but that's part of the game.However, what I've been arguing for ages is that you cannot use those occasions as evidence that Froome will beat Contador when both are on top shape.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Then they keep going on about the 2014 Vuelta being the only fair comparison, not understanding Froome had been injured and was using it to get a Grand Tour in his legs for the next year. Flo is the worst at doing that.

Yes, Froome had been injured, just like Contador, by the way.

Also I think Contador was riding Vuelta 14' to prepare for the Giro 15', wasn't he?

Yes, of course. It's very important to have a solid number of race days in the legs to build a good base during the winter. Which might also be why he was a bit below par and didn't have a proper base in 2013.

 

[BlurryVII]

Wish I knew the races they faced each other before 2012 so I could count them too! I'm sure that'd be relevant!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Wish I knew the races they faced each other before 2012 so I could count them too! I'm sure that'd be relevant!

Unfortunately only at the 2011 Volta a Catalunya and Vuelta a Castilla y Leon but I'm sure if they'd faced each other Froome would have absolutely crushed Contador because logic.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Wish I knew the races they faced each other before 2012 so I could count them too! I'm sure that'd be relevant!

Unfortunately only at the 2011 Volta a Catalunya and Vuelta a Castilla y Leon but I'm sure if they'd faced each other Froome would have absolutely crushed Contador because logic.

Oh no, Froome managed to beat Contador in Castille y Leon 11' because of that mechanical

But who cares, that counts too! What a beast Froome is.

 

[Miburo]

You know you lost an argument when you try to ridicule the discussion. Next time better!

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

You know you lost an argument when you try to ridicule the discussion. Next time better!

Lol, you really think I'm gonna bother putting the same redundant arguments over and over again? Nope, just contemplating the idiocy. Perhaps looking for the lost city of Atlantis would be a better choice than trying to convince someone here.

Just waiting for the Tour 16' to start now.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

It's hard facing the truth sometimes.

4 more weeks for that beast prologue in the dauphine, can't wait

Remember it doesnt count if He doesnt assume His ultimate peak form.

LOL it's so true. I am a big AC fan and really hope he can win the Tour this year. But to his diehard fans on this forum, unless Contador is in the absolute form of his life none of his results and losses to Froome count.

2013 season and losses to Froome? Doesn't count!
Froome easily beating him in the 2014 Dauphine prologue? No Contador was better because we say so!
Froome winning the next day MTF in the 2014 Dauphine with Contador 2nd and hanging on for dear life? No, we don't care, Contador was still better!
Froome beating Contador in Andalusia in 2015? No we don't count that because he was going for the Giro or something.

Then they keep going on about the 2014 Vuelta being the only fair comparison, not understanding Froome had been injured and was using it to get a Grand Tour in his legs for the next year. Flo is the worst at doing that.

Please explain to me how the bolded last paragraph is any different from the rest of your post. Weren't both of them coming off of injuries? Didn't Froome seem to ride a race that appeared to be one where he was attempting to actually be competitive as opposed to simply "getting a grand tour in his legs"? I agree that there are a lot more Contador fans in a state of denial but that doesn't change the fact that many here pretend like yourself that the 2014 Vuelta shouldn't count. I really don't see the difference.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

You know you lost an argument when you try to ridicule the discussion. Next time better!

Lol, you really think I'm gonna bother putting the same redundant arguments over and over again? Nope, just contemplating the idiocy. Perhaps looking for the lost city of Atlantis would be a better choice than trying to convince someone here.

Just waiting for the Tour 16' to start now.

Why not? You've been doing it since you're on this forum. Why the sudden change huh? Next week you're at it again.

Next time better!

 

[blackmamba]

Froome fans are so obsessed with Contador and the fact that Froome has always lost to him when their been on equal terms its kinda pathetic

 

[Angliru]

Actually this entire Contador fans vs Froome fans dialogue is like opposing political parties that only criticize the opposing party's outlandish beliefs and statements while looking the other way when one of their group goes off of the deep end. I'm guilty I admit. As was posted earlier there are reasonable folk on both sides of the fence but admittedly Contador's following is more cult-like but when you have the charisma, style, and longevity of success that Contador has and has had, one develops a larger and more dedicated following.

 

[Jakub]

Re: Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

It would be nice to see a statistic of the growth of the number of users having Milburo in ignore list everytime he writes "next time better" or something like that

 

[buchanan]

'Please explain to me how the bolded last paragraph is any different from the rest of your post. Weren't both of them coming off of injuries? Didn't Froome seem to ride a race that appeared to be one where he was attempting to actually be competitive as opposed to simply "getting a grand tour in his legs"? I agree that there are a lot more Contador fans in a state of denial but that doesn't change the fact that many here pretend like yourself that the 2014 Vuelta shouldn't count. I really don't see the difference.'

@Angiluru
Well yes, the 2014 Vuelta does count. But so does the whole of the 2013 season and so does the 2015 Tour de France. My point is that some of AC's fans cherry pick races he has done well in and discount the ones where he hasn't performed and provide flimsy excuses for it. Would they offer Froome the same? I don't think they do. I was trying to show that we can also make excuses as to why Froome wasn't 100% at some races and didn't win. Using 2014 Vuelta as an example. Personally I don't think he was in top shape there. I agree he became more competitive and attacking as the race went on. But anyway I agree, the result still counts.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

It would be nice to see a statistic of the growth of the number of users having Milburo in ignore list everytime he writes "next time better" or something like that

I still got you my friend