Froome Vs. Contador

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Contador must try to follow Froome the first two weeks. Or at least to lose as little as possible, and get to the last week with a maximum of 30.1 minutes of posting, would be good.
And finally, last week, when Froome will fall, Alberto will make up for lost time.
This is roughly the plan to try to win the Tour

I think Contador and Quintana both will be about 2 minutes down going into the Alps, it should be the objective to reduce the gaps for them on Arcalis and the ITT or follow, but I think Ventoux and the ITT is Froome's territory. Maybe they can try something to Culoz.

I wanted to write 1:30 min
.30 s-1 minute would be perfection.

however Arcalis is the first MTF but I think not quite hard for Froome to give minutes of minutes as PSM (following wheels on those slopes and save energis to limit eventually losses). 30s at most onQuintana and Contador for me.

The real test will be the Ventoux

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Arcalís is not that tough.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't know why everyone automatically assumes, that

a) Froome will be the best on the first MTF
b) Froome will fade in the third week.

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

I'm a Contador fan and I agree with Taxus that Froome was at least as strong as Contador in 2014 at the Dauphine and Tour. Possibly slightly stronger in fact. He took a handful of seconds out of Contador to win the opening ITT at the Dauphine. He then followed that up by winning the next stage, a mountain top finish, where Contador was using every ounce of strength to hang on for dear life (and came 2nd to Froome).
Obviously things started to unravel for Froome when he then had a heavy crash at that Dauphine and then crashed out of the Tour very early in the race, breaking his hand.

It was also true that Froome was using ever ounce of strength to drop Contador and couldn't. Contador tried to come around him in the finale and couldn't, but ended on the same time. I don't call that stronger. I call that the same level.

Before Froome crashed at the 2014 Dauphine he had won the first 2 stages. Contador came 2nd in both.
Froome won by 8 seconds in the opening 10km TT - then a gap back to Contador, Jungels, Talansky and Kelderman, all at a similar time (within a couple of seconds of each other).
Winning the 2nd stage was also significant because it meant an extra 4 bonus seconds to Froome over Contador.
I would say winning those opening 2 stages definitely showed Froome to be the slightly stronger rider of the two.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Contador must try to follow Froome the first two weeks. Or at least to lose as little as possible, and get to the last week with a maximum of 30.1 minutes of posting, would be good.
And finally, last week, when Froome will fall, Alberto will make up for lost time.
This is roughly the plan to try to win the Tour

I think Contador and Quintana both will be about 2 minutes down going into the Alps, it should be the objective to reduce the gaps for them on Arcalis and the ITT or follow, but I think Ventoux and the ITT is Froome's territory. Maybe they can try something to Culoz.

I wanted to write 1:30 min
.30 s-1 minute would be perfection.

however Arcalis is the first MTF but I think not quite hard for Froome to give minutes of minutes as PSM (following wheels on those slopes and save energis to limit eventually losses). 30s at most onQuintana and Contador for me.

The real test will be the Ventoux

Yes, about 30 sec - 1 minute would be perfect for both Contador and Quintana, but I think Contador should have gained a little time on Quintana by the Alps if he should win. Either on Arcalis or one of the ITT's.

Nope, and it also comes after two mountain stages that finish downhill but if Froome feels well, I'm 100% they will test the legs on Aspin

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

As a new Froome fan with size 8/9 shoe size. I find the he would he, he wouldn't have beaten Bertie in 2014 of no real relevance . That's because it did not happen. its now 2016 and a new saga is about to unfold.
But its nice to make a opinion especially now coming from the darkside [sky] I think we can only judge from past experience. Looking at that if we get my man Froome in top form he may well have got some time in the Flat tt.
but a on form Bertie would stay very close so I could not put more than 30 seconds between them at best [ its not 2013] Then we have to look at form over 3 weeks and as a new git wizard [ froome] fan you have to favour Bertie over the 3 weeks. Bertie does not tend to have bad days. We know Froome does. So it would be close but I think Bertie would come out on top because he is consistently stronger over 3 weeks.
This opinion was brought to you by a new froome fan.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

I really think this discussion belongs into another forum section, nevertheless I at least agree that these stories don't really mean a lot. If Stefan Denifl and Riccardo Zoidl win a gt next year we could also say that they have already done some good races but these results would never be used as an indicator that they could ever be serious gc contenders before they do such a huge step forward. Only afterwards one could say that Denifl's 7th place in Paris Nice and Zoidl's win at the Österreich Rundfahrt already showed their potential.
Btw, I don't want to accuse Froome of anything, I just say that I don't think the arguments Taxus brought up, mean a lot.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

As a new Froome fan with size 8/9 shoe size. I find the he would he, he wouldn't have beaten Bertie in 2014 of no real relevance . That's because it did not happen. its now 2016 and a new saga is about to unfold.
But its nice to make a opinion especially now coming from the darkside [sky] I think we can only judge from past experience. Looking at that if we get my man Froome in top form he may well have got some time in the Flat tt.
but a on form Bertie would stay very close so I could not put more than 30 seconds between them at best [ its not 2013] Then we have to look at form over 3 weeks and as a new git wizard [ froome] fan you have to favour Bertie over the 3 weeks. Bertie does not tend to have bad days. We know Froome does. So it would be close but I think Bertie would come out on top because he is consistently stronger over 3 weeks.
This opinion was brought to you by a new froome fan.

I don't think that the Froome contingent is convinced of the sincerity of your "conversion". There will be ceremonies to be undertaken and extreme sacrifices made on your part to reach acceptance. This I foresee.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

I'm a Contador fan and I agree with Taxus that Froome was at least as strong as Contador in 2014 at the Dauphine and Tour. Possibly slightly stronger in fact. He took a handful of seconds out of Contador to win the opening ITT at the Dauphine. He then followed that up by winning the next stage, a mountain top finish, where Contador was using every ounce of strength to hang on for dear life (and came 2nd to Froome).
Obviously things started to unravel for Froome when he then had a heavy crash at that Dauphine and then crashed out of the Tour very early in the race, breaking his hand.

It was also true that Froome was using ever ounce of strength to drop Contador and couldn't. Contador tried to come around him in the finale and couldn't, but ended on the same time. I don't call that stronger. I call that the same level.

Before Froome crashed at the 2014 Dauphine he had won the first 2 stages. Contador came 2nd in both.
Froome won by 8 seconds in the opening 10km TT - then a gap back to Contador, Jungels, Talansky and Kelderman, all at a similar time (within a couple of seconds of each other).
Winning the 2nd stage was also significant because it meant an extra 4 bonus seconds to Froome over Contador.
I would say winning those opening 2 stages definitely showed Froome to be the slightly stronger rider of the two.

fair enough. I hope both stay upright at the Dauphine and TdF. I'd like to have something more than the 2014 Vuelta as the only GT where they were in theory at the same level.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

I don't know why everyone automatically assumes, that

a) Froome will be the best on the first MTF
b) Froome will fade in the third week.

Froome is not going to fade in the third week, but there are people as Quintana that as more mountains stages done, it is going to be better. Froome will be weak in some short stages as well. So, some people could undertand that as to fade, but not really, it is other people who do better, pure and endurace climbers.

If he cant drop Quintana just after the flat, it would be very difficult later. He has just the fist ITT and who knows if the second.

Respect Contador I think he will use some non very expected stages to play his cards.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Don't worry...there is a team right now watching Monfort. They will sign him as soon as his current contract is up. Monfort right now is dealing with a rare sickness...he will be healed and go on to ride at his full potential. The sky is the limit!

The Clinic is this way.

viewforum.php?f=20

Hey now, there is no need of bringing this up while talking about Team Sky. We are passed 2011.

 

[Miburo]

Who do you guys think is better: froome or contador?

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

Who do you guys think is better: froome or contador?

But 2013 doesn't count, eh.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Who do you guys think is better: froome or contador?

I'll start a thread.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

If you read my article you can get some answers, there is everything before Vuelta 2011, but I am quite sure you are nor really interested, and if you write that you has never investigated.

I put it again, the article and a video before that Vuelta (sorry to put it over an over, but some people ask always over and over the same things, it is not my blame):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPd4aZQmDuQ

http://patrimoniociclista.blogspot.com.es/2013/06/an-unpolished-diamond-story-of-chris.html



But nobody can exactly say who is going to be the best in that case.
When lot of riders shows potential at 20,22,24, you cant say who I going to become to a very good GT contender.
as you can see on my article he was rated high by Corti, and his first test in Europe got amazed to the people, the same as Quintana in Colombia. It was the same in his first with SKY.

Monfort is not of the age of Froome, but there was a lot of promising riders of his age at about 85-86...but not all can reach the top.

it is not a surprise Froome did, but it wont be a surprise for other riders as well. When Froome started we were in other era, so he had to pass more obstacles than others to reach the top.

I at least realized and I wrote in 2008 I was impresed by Froome.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

Don't worry...there is a team right now watching Monfort. They will sign him as soon as his current contract is up. Monfort right now is dealing with a rare sickness...he will be healed and go on to ride at his full potential. The sky is the limit!

just out of pure interest what is your agenda in the light of this? Froome is a less worthy winner of big races or what?

 

[Breh]

Froome fades in the 3rd week!!

 

[Breh]

Contador has no team!!

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

Don't worry...there is a team right now watching Monfort. They will sign him as soon as his current contract is up. Monfort right now is dealing with a rare sickness...he will be healed and go on to ride at his full potential. The sky is the limit!

just out of pure interest what is your agenda in the light of this? Froome is a less worthy winner of big races or what?

Mainly Taxus stating that it's no surprise Froome has become the most dominate GT rider and one of the reasons he struggled was because it was a different era.

Froome deserves his wins as much as any other pro rider. We know why their all great.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

I really think this discussion belongs into another forum section, nevertheless I at least agree that these stories don't really mean a lot. If Stefan Denifl and Riccardo Zoidl win a gt next year we could also say that they have already done some good races but these results would never be used as an indicator that they could ever be serious gc contenders before they do such a huge step forward. Only afterwards one could say that Denifl's 7th place in Paris Nice and Zoidl's win at the Österreich Rundfahrt already showed their potential.
Btw, I don't want to accuse Froome of anything, I just say that I don't think the arguments Taxus brought up, mean a lot.

I dont understand, wich arguments? Some people say nobody view Froome could be a Tour contender or he didnt do anything before, and that is false and I have demotrated that. Si that is not speculations, are facts.

Of course Froome could have been just a normal domestique, but when I followed him after his good 2008 Tour I didnt know really his potential, I was just amazed that a man who came from Africa could be with Sastre, Menchov, Schleck Brothers, close to the end in the hard queen stage and as well doing a very good ITT at the end, much better than contador in the ame situation (in fact in better situation) I was following more riders. As well I didnt know all his result. I was just quite dissapointing about his Giro in 2009, despite he was working, he didnt finished very bad in GC and he was close to win a stage, becouse acording he showed in TdF an the start of the year, I expected more from him. But even Landa who is a rider who amazed everybody in amateur, and who get a very good result in Neila quite early in pro, needed his time to be at the top in a GC. Becouse unlees you start with good luck in pro with a very good result, as Pinot, Quintana, Sagan, so you will have always a team for you, and that is not the usual, it is not always easy to become a leader, especially if you have crashed , illness,.. and you dont have continuity.

Cheers!

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

Don't worry...there is a team right now watching Monfort. They will sign him as soon as his current contract is up. Monfort right now is dealing with a rare sickness...he will be healed and go on to ride at his full potential. The sky is the limit!

just out of pure interest what is your agenda in the light of this? Froome is a less worthy winner of big races or what?

Mainly Taxus stating that it's no surprise Froome has become the most dominate GT rider and one of the reasons he struggled was because it was a different era.

Froome deserves his wins as much as any other pro rider. We know why their all great.

One of the reasons, not the main one. He would have got better result from the begining, but no more.

But today he is there and Tiernan Locke is in other place. And that is for something. it is not how you start, but how you finish.

And mentality, and luck. As I show in my article, in Laussana, at the white team for extrage countries, they said that Froome, Teklehaimanot and Rafaa chitioui were the best engines they got in all the years.
Teklehaimanot belong a country where they have sometimes some problem with VISa, and he had heath problems.. so he is an average rider in result (a superrider in potential).

Rafaa is a muslin rider who dont adapte very well to the life in Europe, and maybe his head is not the same that Froome head, you need a lot of determination to get the top and a lot of sacrify. No everybody can.

Froome started cycling seriusly at 20,in Africa. Impey, Augustyn,... did before. He need pulish, he has a lot to learn about pro cycling and a lot to change his body. SKY was a good team for that. Bilharzia was a problem as well, not a big problem, but to perform at the best level yes. It is not clear anyway when he got the illness, but he hadnt got continuity in 2011 for that reason.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I'm a Contador fan and I agree with Taxus that Froome was at least as strong as Contador in 2014 at the Dauphine and Tour. Possibly slightly stronger in fact. He took a handful of seconds out of Contador to win the opening ITT at the Dauphine. He then followed that up by winning the next stage, a mountain top finish, where Contador was using every ounce of strength to hang on for dear life (and came 2nd to Froome).
Obviously things started to unravel for Froome when he then had a heavy crash at that Dauphine and then crashed out of the Tour very early in the race, breaking his hand.

It was also true that Froome was using ever ounce of strength to drop Contador and couldn't. Contador tried to come around him in the finale and couldn't, but ended on the same time. I don't call that stronger. I call that the same level.

I call this bias as we all know that following wheels is easier then pulling. Froome was stronger that day.
That doesn't mean that he would've won the TdF if both stayed on their bikes that year, but that's just speculation and nothing more. Discussing that is imo pointless, we will never know.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I'm a Contador fan and I agree with Taxus that Froome was at least as strong as Contador in 2014 at the Dauphine and Tour. Possibly slightly stronger in fact. He took a handful of seconds out of Contador to win the opening ITT at the Dauphine. He then followed that up by winning the next stage, a mountain top finish, where Contador was using every ounce of strength to hang on for dear life (and came 2nd to Froome).
Obviously things started to unravel for Froome when he then had a heavy crash at that Dauphine and then crashed out of the Tour very early in the race, breaking his hand.

It was also true that Froome was using ever ounce of strength to drop Contador and couldn't. Contador tried to come around him in the finale and couldn't, but ended on the same time. I don't call that stronger. I call that the same level.

I call this bias as we all know that following wheels is easier then pulling. Froome was stronger that day.
That doesn't mean that he would've won the TdF if both stayed on their bikes that year, but that's just speculation and nothing more. Discussing that is imo pointless, we will never know.

Agree. It was different if it was on above 8%, but it averaged 6% or close to. Counting Froome's cadence the whole climb surely showed who was stronger, just as the TT before did.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

I wonder why no one said/say right now Monfort would be the best GT rider ever based on 2007 Vuelta.

He was exactly same age as Froome (edit: I realized he was 1 year older, but who cares):

9th in final ITT, beating Hansen, Chavanel, CVV, Sastre, Backstedt, LLS and many more.
9th and 11th in final two mountain stages beating guys like Evans, Chechu, Horner, Anton, Moreno, Barredo, Beltran, Krezuiger and many more.
And he finished 11th in GC beating..., I guess you get the point.

Anyone can make a BS story after you see what happened, I would love to see any post about him before 2011 Vuelta, not after he somehow become the next big thing.

If you read my article you can get some answers, there is everything before Vuelta 2011, but I am quite sure you are nor really interested, and if you write that you has never investigated.

I put it again, the article and a video before that Vuelta (sorry to put it over an over, but some people ask always over and over the same things, it is not my blame):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPd4aZQmDuQ

http://patrimoniociclista.blogspot.com.es/2013/06/an-unpolished-diamond-story-of-chris.html



But nobody can exactly say who is going to be the best in that case.
When lot of riders shows potential at 20,22,24, you cant say who I going to become to a very good GT contender.
as you can see on my article he was rated high by Corti, and his first test in Europe got amazed to the people, the same as Quintana in Colombia. It was the same in his first with SKY.


it is not a surprise Froome did, but it wont be a surprise for other riders as well. When Froome started we were in other era, so he had to pass more obstacles than others to reach the top.

I at least realized and I wrote in 2008 I was impresed by Froome.

Show me any post about Froome before 2011 Vuelta and I will shut up forever, otherwise you are talking complete nonsense. For example, there was quite a lot of hype about Quintana before 2012 Vuelta or 2013 Tour, so they are not comperable at all.

Monfort is not of the age of Froome, but there was a lot of promising riders of his age at about 85-86...but not all can reach the top.

Monfort is 2 year older than Froome, so there is only 1 year difference between him and Froome and he was definitely more impressive in Vuelta 2007 compared to Tour 2008.

So, did you follow Monfort and predicted that he would be the next big thing? By the way, Badzilla is pure BS, they even don't have a proper story and their statements keeps on contradicting each other.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"I'm a Contador fan and I agree with Taxus that Froome was at least as strong as Contador in 2014 at the Dauphine and Tour."
How can you know