Fuentes interview

[The Hitch]

Always said, that cycling isn´t the most dirty. It´s not big enough. The bigger the dirtier (NFL, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, NBA, Rugby: Doping PLUS Game fixing).

The cliche about technique sports = less doping is a myth. MLB had up to 7 % positive doping tests in 2003. And that´s only steroids and only the tip of the iceberg.

The one problem for me is always that something like Soccer, which has thousands and thousands of proffesional players, + coaches, physios doctors, so many people who would have to know about doping and not a signle rat. No a squeek. Not a single footballer or doctor confessing on their death bed. What about players who refuse doping and then talk to the media. We had a few of these in cycling. Soccer is far bigger. Why none of these there?

 

[theswordsman]

The cliche about technique sports = less doping is a myth. MLB had up to 7 % positive doping tests in 2003. And that´s only steroids and only the tip of the iceberg.

I wouldn't hold MLB up as an example of a technique sport, especially since a guy who's beefed up can hit the ball out of the park and out of play. A hitter gets four or five at bats a game. What he does with those four hits makes a big difference. And most plays in the field aren't made at full speed.

In the US Open tennis semis and finals, there were a lot of rallies that took ten shots on each side just to decide a point, often with the ball less than an inch in or out. The strike zone for a return of serve is maybe twenty feet wide, with a curve ball that might break four feet. The swirling wind played a big part in the tourney, so players had to adjust their footwork, their spins, how hard they hit, and how far inside the lines they aimed. Good tennis players maintain their "touch" so they can take all the speed off the ball for a drop shot or drop volley. Tennis players do repeated very short sprints and have to recover after every point.

A lot of the game is mental, as a player can find themselves in a position similar to two out in the ninth, two strikes, a number of times throughout the match. And they need to maintain that focus over the course of one to five hours, because every ball hit is theirs to deal with. When pro tennis players cheat, it's by looking to their coach in the stands for advice on strategy.

Caroline Wozniacki and Kim Clijsters are two of the top players in the women's game. Do people think they dope in order to get to the balls, make the split-second decisions and hit the shots? If you say yes, I'm not sure why you bother watching sports. And if you say no, then why wouldn't guys who are naturally bigger and stronger be able to do exactly the same things?

 

[Escarabajo]

The one problem for me is always that something like Soccer, which has thousands and thousands of proffesional players, + coaches, physios doctors, so many people who would have to know about doping and not a signle rat. No a squeek. Not a single footballer or doctor confessing on their death bed. What about players who refuse doping and then talk to the media. We had a few of these in cycling. Soccer is far bigger. Why none of these there?

Not really. Remember Emmanuel Petit from the French team that was the world champion? He was one of the first ones to say that he would not play 2 games per week because of the physical requirements. And the media then asked then what about the rest of the players who do it? And then he replied about knowing other players already were doping. Maybe the Festina affair had an effect on his mind at the time because this happened in 1999. The whole world seemed to collapse around him because he was a high rank player.

What about the million tests that la Brujita Veron took and passed being a coke addict. It beats me. Let's talk about a protected sport.

Here, I found the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/27/sports/27iht-juve_ed3_.html

Yet the mind goes back to 1999, and to the prophecy of Emmanuel Petit, then a World Cup winner with France and a dynamic, physically powerful defender with the London club Arsenal. "We will all have to take drugs to survive the demands of domestic, European and international fixtures," Petit had said. "Some footballers already do." He was certified as virtually insane. FIFA, the overlord of world soccer, dismissed Petit's view. The Professional Players Union in England called him to name names, or keep his mouth shut.

Omerta in Soccer is huuuuuuuuuuge.

I remember this incident, it was very popular in my country at the time.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Always said, that cycling isn´t the most dirty. It´s not big enough. The bigger the dirtier (NFL, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, NBA, Rugby: Doping PLUS Game fixing).

The cliche about technique sports = less doping is a myth. MLB had up to 7 % positive doping tests in 2003. And that´s only steroids and only the tip of the iceberg.

Yes and no.

Certainly in the publics viewpoint, Pro Cycling is looked at as the dirtiest (re: doping) - when realistically other sports have similar issues.

But - it should not take away from the fact that Pro Cycling has earned this dubious honor on merit, not just because of past scandals but more so because of its failures to address its known problems.

Look at it this way - how many other sporting forums have to have separate subsection called 'The Clinic'?

FWIW - I think contact sports, with an emphasis on strength, (NFL, Rugby) where athletes are prone to many injuries would have the highest consumption of PED's.

 

[gatete]

Well, mine is not a "theory", it's just an opinion.

The reason why I said bringing the entire family to a final game is sort of an indication that you may not be doing something wrong is because of cheater's guilt, that's all.

Now, there are exceptions to the rule, like Armstrong, who's a compulsive socialite/psychopath and OK with living a lie every day of his existence, and has actually tested positive, or Riccó, who is simply a moron, and has also tested positive.

But, if you know you're doing something wrong you usually try to extricate yourself from those that matter to you, phisically and emotionally. Even Jesús Manzano himself, once said that the reason they used to carry out the training camps away from their home towns was to "[...]create a false appearance. The people have always been afraid of a scene, and panic at surprise controls at home. It's best to be away."

That's why I'm saying that someone with a family as heavily involved in his success as Nadal has to know he does not take a little of the sumphin-sumphin. And if they all, or some, know and are all in the lie then they all deserve to be put in jail.

Remember, it's just an opinion.

This is why I always say that we as fans are very biased and will "forgive" our favorites than the ones we despise, case in point, I can't stand Armstrong and when the argument arises that he has never tested positive, it makes me even more sure that he did, in your other post you kind of mentioned the same thing with Nadal, I guess you like him and the argument that he has never tested positive suits your convictions, don't get me wrong I too defend Contador, because I like the guy and I guess will be more "forgiving" if something tainted arises.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Always said, that cycling isn´t the most dirty. It´s not big enough...

Well, probably. We all agree that the major sports do a better job of monitoring or controlling their doping, and aren't going to pursue it further because of the money. I'd also agree there is likely game manipulation (if not outright fixing) in some sports. The NBA being the most obvious.

Nadal seems to somewhat be the Miguel Indurain of tennis. He's likely on the sauce along with everyone else, sure. How much? Who knows? But we all know he's good anyway, and not an arrogant jerk and seems appreciative of his success without flouting anything, so we look the other way.

 

[DAOTEC]

TV: ARD-Sportschau Tomorrow Spanish judge Arturo Beltran

.

'On German TV tomorrow'


26.09.2010 - Berlin (dpa) - One of the biggest doping scandals in sports history of the Spanish gynecologist Eufemiano Fuentes threatenes to end after five years having the blood bags destroyed.

Even the judge who made the audit request, does not anticipate on further evidence or the disclosure of names, when the case is resolved in court. "If the verdict is final, after a possible appeal, then it is likely that at the end the blood bags and evidence is destroyed," said Arturo Beltran judge by the Higher Supreme Court of Madrid to the ARD sports show and the WDR-magazine, "Inside Sports" that will be broadcasted September 27.

Read all @: http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_65802.htm

 

[DAOTEC]

Preview Video and Broadcasting Time tomorrow.

Preview Video: http://www.ardmediathek.de/ard/servlet/content/3517136?documentId=5466502

Tomorrow live (22u45) at WDR TV: [http://wdr.de/tv/sport-inside/"Spanish Blood"-fuentes.jsp]

Reruns: "sport inside" ARD-TV channel "EinsExtra" Thursday at 00:30h und Saturday at 12:30h.

 

[ultimobici]

I seem to remember that Fuentes was being pressed on who was on his client list but refused. Then the press started speculating about Tennis and then Barca & Real Madrid, Fuentes then gets death threats and shuts up.

I also remember reading somewhere that EPO allows an athlete to work at the same rate for 20% longer. That works out as extra time in a football match! So much for there being no point to using EPO in football!

Final recollection of OP was FIFA announcing that there were no blood tests in the 2006 WC because it was too expensive!!!

 

[Escarabajo]

WOW. Operacion Puerto will be over forever. Names can not be tied to any cycling, tennis or soccer player anymore (If there was ever any chance).

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The one problem for me is always that something like Soccer, which has thousands and thousands of proffesional players, + coaches, physios doctors, so many people who would have to know about doping and not a signle rat. No a squeek. Not a single footballer or doctor confessing on their death bed. What about players who refuse doping and then talk to the media. We had a few of these in cycling. Soccer is far bigger. Why none of these there?

Oh oh, Juve-Epo-Scandal, Festina-Judge-Scandal about soccer, numerous deaths of italian players by brain disease connected to doping, Messi getting HGH etc. etc.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I wouldn't hold MLB up as an example of a technique sport, especially since a guy who's beefed up can hit the ball out of the park and out of play. A hitter gets four or five at bats a game. What he does with those four hits makes a big difference. And most plays in the field aren't made at full speed.

In the US Open tennis semis and finals, there were a lot of rallies that took ten shots on each side just to decide a point, often with the ball less than an inch in or out. The strike zone for a return of serve is maybe twenty feet wide, with a curve ball that might break four feet. The swirling wind played a big part in the tourney, so players had to adjust their footwork, their spins, how hard they hit, and how far inside the lines they aimed. Good tennis players maintain their "touch" so they can take all the speed off the ball for a drop shot or drop volley. Tennis players do repeated very short sprints and have to recover after every point.

A lot of the game is mental, as a player can find themselves in a position similar to two out in the ninth, two strikes, a number of times throughout the match. And they need to maintain that focus over the course of one to five hours, because every ball hit is theirs to deal with. When pro tennis players cheat, it's by looking to their coach in the stands for advice on strategy.

Caroline Wozniacki and Kim Clijsters are two of the top players in the women's game. Do people think they dope in order to get to the balls, make the split-second decisions and hit the shots? If you say yes, I'm not sure why you bother watching sports. And if you say no, then why wouldn't guys who are naturally bigger and stronger be able to do exactly the same things?

Don´t get all points, but what i can talk about is baseball. I played it, coach said no drugs needed, it´s a technical game. It´s true, a difficult game. But then in the 90s, the MLB stats got up in HRS and Batting-Avg. Pitchers who could top 90 mph were rare in the 80s, all of a sudden "everybody" threw 90 mph fastballs. Coach said: The got better training now, nutrition, weight lifting. No drugs needed. But we all know now: 1st the dope-docs took over cycling, then football and baseball. Of course, they are everywere nowadays. The real guilty of the doping mess. It´s the same in every sport. They even caught a table tennis player this week using steroids !!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yes and no.

Certainly in the publics viewpoint, Pro Cycling is looked at as the dirtiest (re: doping) - when realistically other sports have similar issues.

But - it should not take away from the fact that Pro Cycling has earned this dubious honor on merit, not just because of past scandals but more so because of its failures to address its known problems.

Look at it this way - how many other sporting forums have to have separate subsection called 'The Clinic'?

FWIW - I think contact sports, with an emphasis on strength, (NFL, Rugby) where athletes are prone to many injuries would have the highest consumption of PED's.

Nice post.

Cycling has a bad name, because it´s a scapegoat and the press jumped on it. I mean look at the 100m in athletics. All of the record holders back to Lewis caught or connected to doping. Swimming: no tests in training, they gave up the blood tests. NFL: Player union dictates what to test and what not!! Etc. etc.

I would say cycling fans got the wake up call with Festina and Puerto. Now the fans know what´s going on and talk about. Soccer fans on the other hand still discuss if the 10-Mio-$ contract is too high or not. Or if Beckham should have a new haircut. They are still naive. Omerta (still) works there. They´ll get their wake up call too...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Well, probably. We all agree that the major sports do a better job of monitoring or controlling their doping, and aren't going to pursue it further because of the money. I'd also agree there is likely game manipulation (if not outright fixing) in some sports. The NBA being the most obvious.

You mean with controlling, that they keep everything under the carpet?

Reminds me just about the book "How organized crime influences pro football". There it´s written many times, the NFL likes to have everything under the carpet. Numerous congresional hearings came to stop before beginning...

I think we criticize (including me) the UCI for the right reasons (corruption, covering Armstrong). But they seem like true amateurs compared to the big four (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA) and FIFA. We should be lucky that it is like it is. Otherwise we would never have found out the truth about cycling.

I enjoy cycling more then ever, because they were forced by the negative press to attack the doping problem. Even if the passport isn´t working perfect, at least they are trying.

For game fixing i recommend the 60-minutes-interview with Tim Donaghy. And what says Stern: "He is the only bad apple of the sport". Hahaha, we cycling fans no this excuse for 10 years.

 

[sherer]

WOW. Operacion Puerto will be over forever. Names can not be tied to any cycling, tennis or soccer player anymore (If there was ever any chance).

I just wish the whole listed was leaked out. We know this goes to other sports but yet the only names in the public domain as from cycling.

Vino made a good comment once that the whole money in cycling is maybe 100m Euros or less. That is less than a Prem League football club spends on wages a year. They are worth billions so just have the money to bury these things

 

[craig1985]

I just wish the whole listed was leaked out. We know this goes to other sports but yet the only names in the public domain as from cycling.

Vino made a good comment once that the whole money in cycling is maybe 100m Euros or less. That is less than a Prem League football club spends on wages a year. They are worth billions so just have the money to bury these things

I've heard one or two rumours that journalists were to break the story and list all the football/soccer players, but were informed for the best interests of their health and safety that they don't publish the names because certain individuals would stand to lose a lot of money.

 

[The Hitch]

They´ll get their wake up call too...

I dont know. I dont see it. Cycling is one thing. But football. There is just too much passion there. Here a lot of us love cycling but dont neccesarily support anyone. If someone gets caught its not like they were part of our lives. In football, people define themselves by their football club. People spend half their salaries to follow their clubs.

Footballers are above the law as it is. They get lesser sentences for stuff like assault. No one will ever dare to look in cars of football clubs for blood bags. Club owners have money and power.

I can imagine that if anyone ever suggested on tv that John Terry or Iniesta or delpiero for example doped, their body would be found in the street a few days later.

As long as the tests are weak no one will get caught. As long as there is no call to investigate doping in football people there will continue to be few tests. And even if the tests were improved we can see in cycling that doesnt neccesarily catch people. And even if they did get caught we have seen that celebrities like Lance, Carl Lewis can often be too big to get caught, and their tests will be covered up. And neither Lance not Lois sell anywhere near as much merchandise as footballers and their clubs. I dont see them ever getting caught.

 

[The Hitch]

I've heard one or two rumours that journalists were to break the story and list all the football/soccer players, but were informed for the best interests of their health and safety that they don't publish the names because certain individuals would stand to lose a lot of money.

Shame there arent people like Giovanni Falcone in football.

"A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero only one.” – William Shakesprear - Jullius Ceasar.

 

[sherer]

I've heard one or two rumours that journalists were to break the story and list all the football/soccer players, but were informed for the best interests of their health and safety that they don't publish the names because certain individuals would stand to lose a lot of money.

just wish someone had created a fake e-mail account, signed up to a forum, posted the list and then vanished.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I dont know. I dont see it. Cycling is one thing. But football. There is just too much passion there. Here a lot of us love cycling but dont neccesarily support anyone. If someone gets caught its not like they were part of our lives. In football, people define themselves by their football club. People spend half their salaries to follow their clubs.

Footballers are above the law as it is. They get lesser sentences for stuff like assault. No one will ever dare to look in cars of football clubs for blood bags. Club owners have money and power.

I can imagine that if anyone ever suggested on tv that John Terry or Iniesta or delpiero for example doped, their body would be found in the street a few days later.

As long as the tests are weak no one will get caught. As long as there is no call to investigate doping in football people there will continue to be few tests. And even if the tests were improved we can see in cycling that doesnt neccesarily catch people. And even if they did get caught we have seen that celebrities like Lance, Carl Lewis can often be too big to get caught, and their tests will be covered up. And neither Lance not Lois sell anywhere near as much merchandise as footballers and their clubs. I dont see them ever getting caught.

1+

Agree with (almost) everything. That´s why i watch cycling.

Where i diagree: Big names not caught?! Besides the cover up of Armstrong (by the UCI) and Contador (by spain) we have some riders caught who were at the top of the top: Ulle, Vino, Rasmussen, Basso, DiLuca, Pellizottl, finally Valv (besides the hard work of spain to cover him up). I think that´s a pretty good job if i compare it to other sports.

And believe me, the passion will come to UK if you get one of those few riders like Ulle did for germany.

For me soccer i dead since long. Too much cheating in game, too much cheating off game (fixing), too boring, strange rules. I only watch WC or EC nowadays. And i have seen enough for another 4 years. 50% of the WC-Games were decided by terrible umpires (i´d really like to see the line movements of the sports-books ), players faking injuries, shaving time etc. etc. I wonder how this mess can be worlds No. 1 sport. And on top of all, it´s leader, dictator Blatter (way worse than McQuaid) dictates countries and fans what they can do and what not.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

just wish someone had created a fake e-mail account, signed up to a forum, posted the list and then vanished.

Who knows, maybe in 8 years the list comes out somewhere. Armstrong couldn´t hold his lies. Not even Nixxon and Reagan could. Someone will talk someday.

There is always a copy of a copy of certain documents...

 

[luckyboy]

I can imagine that if anyone ever suggested on tv that John Terry or Iniesta or delpiero for example doped, their body would be found in the street a few days later.

Actually, Zdeněk Zeman accused Juventus of doping, specifically Del Piero & Vialli iirc. After that there was the investigation into doping there and Calciopoli..

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

WOW. Operacion Puerto will be over forever. Names can not be tied to any cycling, tennis or soccer player anymore (If there was ever any chance).

Shows you just how fair or just it all really was. They got a few fish and showed them to the masses, and ignored the rest, and expect us to believe it was all for the better.

I'll bet Valverde has probably ground a few teeth down recently.

For game fixing i recommend the 60-minutes-interview with Tim Donaghy. And what says Stern: "He is the only bad apple of the sport". Hahaha, we cycling fans no this excuse for 10 years.

Talk about turning a blind eye. Anyone with half a brain, or willing to be honest with themselves, would realize that Donaghy is telling the truth. Even the FBI said he was as far as they were concerned, and he passed two of their lie detector tests.

So yes, cycling has doping problems, and the UCI is impotent, but imagine if it turned out somehow UCI officials were rigging races to where certain riders and teams were winning all the time in order to maximize profits. That's the NBA.

 

[Benotti69]

Shows you just how fair or just it all really was. They got a few fish and showed them to the masses, and ignored the rest, and expect us to believe it was all for the better.

I'll bet Valverde has probably ground a few teeth down recently.


Talk about turning a blind eye. Anyone with half a brain, or willing to be honest with themselves, would realize that Donaghy is telling the truth. Even the FBI said he was as far as they were concerned, and he passed two of their lie detector tests.

So yes, cycling has doping problems, and the UCI is impotent, but imagine if it turned out somehow UCI officials were rigging races to where certain riders and teams were winning all the time in order to maximize profits. That's the NBA.

what about 7 TdFs in a row

 

[The Hitch]

Regarding the idea of Nba being won by the same teams, come to think about this is a case in a number of lucrative sports.

Lets start with the grandady of them all. I think in a 20 year history of the PL only about 5 teams have won the thing and in the last 15 years only 3. That becomes about 3 in 20 years in Spain. 5 in 20 years in Italy including the same one in the last 5.

In tennis, while there may be nothing suspicious about Federer and Nadal winning 21 of the last 23 grand slams (though this is the clinic) im sure more money is made this way given how everyone always cheers for these 2 when they are playing underdogs, given constant fawning by commentators about how they are the most benevolent people in world history, given their nike deals and given the fact that draws prevent them from meeting top 10 players till the qf.

In our thing, the one thing that is worth the by far far far the most money, the tdf is the most predictable. Armstrong 7 in a row. Indurain 5. Contador 3 out of 4. Races are containing more and more stages designed specifically for Cav.

I no longer watch f1 but it seems Mclaren and Ferrari have been up there forever.

In boxing it has always been the case that popular fighters are given easy guaranteed wins while they can still be cashed in on. Hell there never seems to be a shortage of no hopers ready to have Tyson or Klitchko pound their *** in exchange for a nice sum.

Those are the popular sports here (with the exception of our thing).
Fellow International citizens I invite you to add examples from your corners of this world.