Fuglsang punished

[ElChingon]

As much as one can feel for Fuglsang if you put him in a real world situation at a regular job, he'd be pigeon holed as well. Fuglsang should of learned you can't burn your bridge while you are standing on it or you will also fall.

Nothing more than that can be said for his situation.

 

[rickshaw]

This stuff is why I Love Cycling

Seriously, doesn't anybody else get tired of the slick professionalism of other, "organized" sports?. Andy says this, then JB says that, then Chris can't ride so he tells the world (the very small cycling world), then Frank won't do this, and then Andy Can't go to the Big, so CH is back and Jakob makes announcements..the UCI chimes in, and on and on, and lawsuits, investigations in the US, in Italy, crooked Spanish doctors everywhere.. Guys get banned, then get un-banned. Its like a soap opera circus on two wheels.

For a sport with a strict "code of silence" people sure talk a lot.

Its all so, un-professional, so disorganized.... so refreshing compared to MLB, and NBA and NFL and NHL and on and on.

Let Loose the Lions! Long Live the Chaos!

 

[Normandy]

Recent examples of either action:

Hushovd, left out of Garmins vuelta squad last year

Schleck x2, selected for Saxo Banks vuelta squad last year
Nibali, still getting selected for WT races for Liquigas
Gilbert, announcing BMC contract in august, racing Lombardy (and the Canadian WT races) nonetheless.

And the list goes on.........

Thanks Kavistuta

Schlecks, Nibali, Gilbert rode rode for European teams.

Garmin is an American owned and managed team, and while RSNT is Luxemburg registered it has a predominantly American ethos/management style.

Could the different attitude towrds riders leaving be down to the team culture/management culture?

As RSNT is registered in Luxemburg perhaps there is EU employment law that could help Fuslang. Premiership footballers used EU law to bring footballers contracts out of the dark ages and give them more rights.

Team managers blaming their own bad management, lack of leadership skills on UCI system is an easy cop out. If managers are worried a rider who is capable of scoring good points is leaving, why are they not doing everything to retain the rider?

I find it sad that that it seems to be acceptable by people on this forum , that riders/employees have no rights to speak out when they have strong views on a subject. I thought the slave trade was abolished 200 years ago.

In this case its bad management, but what if a rider spoke out about about systematic cheating in a team as has happened in the past. Is he still wrong to speak out?

 

[Cancellator]

In this case its bad management, but what if a rider spoke out about about systematic cheating in a team as has happened in the past. Is he still wrong to speak out?

There is a whole argument in the field of work ethics on when it is appropriate to "blow the whistle" on your employer.

The best way to look at it is, I think, this: if your company/team/whatever is doing something that breaks some explicit rule or law, yes speak out (if you dare)!.

However, if what they are doing merely contradicts some of your personal principles or opinions, you have the choices of quitting your job, having some discussion inside the team/company or shutting up and coping with it. Any other action just makes you a bad employee.

 

[Bob Sanders]

Thanks Kavistuta

Schlecks, Nibali, Gilbert rode rode for European teams.

Garmin is an American owned and managed team, and while RSNT is Luxemburg registered it has a predominantly American ethos/management style.

Could the different attitude towrds riders leaving be down to the team culture/management culture?

As RSNT is registered in Luxemburg perhaps there is EU employment law that could help Fuslang. Premiership footballers used EU law to bring footballers contracts out of the dark ages and give them more rights.

Team managers blaming their own bad management, lack of leadership skills on UCI system is an easy cop out. If managers are worried a rider who is capable of scoring good points is leaving, why are they not doing everything to retain the rider?

I find it sad that that it seems to be acceptable by people on this forum , that riders/employees have no rights to speak out when they have strong views on a subject. I thought the slave trade was abolished 200 years ago.

In this case its bad management, but what if a rider spoke out about about systematic cheating in a team as has happened in the past. Is he still wrong to speak out?

You are a representative of the company you work for. Outside of pointing out criminal behavior which he clearly isn't, why should any employee be legally protected when they publicly bash their employer to the media?

I don't see how even the most diehard anti-Bruyneel posters can rationalize ripping him for this.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Whatever the opinions are, i am on the cyclists side here. Fuglsang isn´t a ...licker and Bruyneel soon will be busted! Obvious: Fuglsang; you are my hero of the day!

 

[thehog]

Thanks Kavistuta

Schlecks, Nibali, Gilbert rode rode for European teams.

Garmin is an American owned and managed team, and while RSNT is Luxemburg registered it has a predominantly American ethos/management style.

Could the different attitude towrds riders leaving be down to the team culture/management culture?

As RSNT is registered in Luxemburg perhaps there is EU employment law that could help Fuslang. Premiership footballers used EU law to bring footballers contracts out of the dark ages and give them more rights.

Team managers blaming their own bad management, lack of leadership skills on UCI system is an easy cop out. If managers are worried a rider who is capable of scoring good points is leaving, why are they not doing everything to retain the rider?

I find it sad that that it seems to be acceptable by people on this forum , that riders/employees have no rights to speak out when they have strong views on a subject. I thought the slave trade was abolished 200 years ago.

In this case its bad management, but what if a rider spoke out about about systematic cheating in a team as has happened in the past. Is he still wrong to speak out?

The term you're looking for is "restraint of trade" under EU law. That's what the Bosman ruling used as its definition - (ref: football)

No team can stop an "employee" from earning a living. If he's been paid a salary but losing an opportunity for bonuses or impressing other teams then it could be applied here. However it's a big effort to go to apply such law. Not to mention time consuming.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Some folks around here seem to have short memories.
Erm, Chris Horner ring a bell?
He spoke out, quite bitterly about his non-Tour selection.
Did he get the same message? No, he got Fuglsang's Tour slot.
No consistency whatsoever.

Of course, while he was being very disloyal then, he more than repaired the damage, with a load of old guff about Armstrong being "clean".
I guess that shows what Bruyneel's priorities are.
Certainly not the Tour or WT races.

+1 , It shows what one will do to protect ones azz . slightest bit of deviance and your on the suspect list of whislte blowers or on the non party line list . Notice how everyone is just got better excuses of why they dont want to be in the limelight of anything to do with this character .

 

[JA.Tri]

What a mess!

The UCI points system sucks, however I have no better proposal to offer.

JB has no people management skills. More to the point he has no apparent ability to empathise with the riders on the team. The riders whom ultimately determine the viability of the team...and he does little (nothing?) to provide a comfortable working environment.

JF lacks discretion. I believe riders should speak their mind, having regard to the feelings of others. J could have spoken to the present facts while being more circumspect about his future.

Riders unfortunately exist in the fog. Neither entirely employees (contract for service), nor contractors (contract of service). Apart from contract time they have little power/say in their situation.

In a situation, such as this, the rider should be able to leave the team immediately (as opined above in this thread).

 

[Fidolix]

You are a representative of the company you work for. Outside of pointing out criminal behavior which he clearly isn't, why should any employee be legally protected when they publicly bash their employer to the media?

I don't see how even the most diehard anti-Bruyneel posters can rationalize ripping him for this.

Why not?

Fuglsang always had a big mouth and not much brain to follow it, and its not the first time he spills out his frustations or opinions through the press tho he should have kept his mouth shut, and JB has every right to do as he did, seen from an employer/employee viewpoint.
However, that said, if JB should follow his own "rule" then it would be logic also to suspend both Andy and Frank plus Horner for blabling their frustration and dissatisfactions out in the press and keep em out of the WT races, but ofc we know that will never happen.

Hell, JB was the first to use the media to express his dissatisfaction with Frandy when he left the Giro, he didnt go to Frank first, now Fuglsang do the same, just following his boss good example...

Ofc Fuglsang should have kept his cool and played the game, be a good tactician and played his card differently, but afterall, its no secret the team is a sinking ship, and it should be allowed for a rider to say hey, my expectations within the team havent been met, my contract runs out, - I seek a new team... so this only add to the already ugly view I have of JB as a person, a lieing narcissistic arrogant power hungry ****tard who only have 1 true friend in this world, his mistress Armstrong... - atleast thats what he thinks, lets see if not the truth is something else when Armstrong gonna rat him out.

 

[maxmartin]

Christophe Le Mevel will be next in line, considering the reputation of JV

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/another-year-without-the-tour-for-christophe-le-mevel

 

[Cimber]

Fuglsang comments more on the case and on how Bruyneels statements under the Giro just added to an already bad atmosphere

http://translate.google.com/transla...cykling/aerlig-fuglsang-paavirket-af-bruyneel

 

[Race Radio]

RSNT is Luxemburg registered it has a predominantly American ethos/management style.

Could the different attitude towrds riders leaving be down to the team culture/management culture?

There are no American's in RSNT management. Their style is old school, Belgium Mafia. Not American

 

[Cimber]

There are no American's in RSNT management. Their style is old school, Belgium Mafia. Not American

Lance is always lurking somewhere in the shadows Horners last minute selection seems to underpin that notion

 

[BillytheKid]

Lance is always lurking somewhere in the shadows Horners last minute selection seems to underpin that notion

Possibly, but I was thinking more Lee Applebaum (sp) for Radio Shack. No serects I am glad Honrer in, but the guy's the odd-man-out for the tour team as he is not the close friend of the Leopard Boys. Politics cannot be avoided.

The Lance connection? Who knows? Who cares? An US title spnsor with no US riders on the team? After a great ride at TA, and riding with injury and illness. A third on the Arrate climb of the Basque with Samu and JRod. Horner's still a very effective climber. Despite the GC talk, I think he wil be riding for Frank and Klöden.

I seem to posting the same point, perhaps pointless.

Fuglsang will live to ride again. It may be a better thing for his career in the long run.

 

[Race Radio]

Possibly, but I was thinking more Lee Applebaum (sp) for Radio Shack. No serects I am glad he's in, but the guy's the odd-man-out for the tour team as his was not the close friend of the Leopard Boys. Politics cannot be avoided.

Lee was fired from Radioshack. He is a huge fanboy who never got board approval for the sponsorship and many of the board members thought it was a waste of money and all of the Lance chaos only reinforced this.

Lance has nothing to do with the team, hasn't for almost a year

 

[Fidolix]

Now it is quite funny when people talk about loyalty to the company, but it is now quite difficult to achieve if you do not pay the employees their wages.

The many internal disturbances at RadioShack-Nissan has provoked rumors of unpaid wages for some riders concerned. This is now confirmed by UCI.

Official UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani today against the German press agency dap confirmed that the International Cycling Federation UCI has received complaints regarding. not paying the salaries of several riders from the U.S. / Luxembourg crew RadioShack-Nissan, where they knew Schleck brothers are front figures. According to news agency it should be about at least three riders, but Carpani would not comment further.

 

[BillytheKid]

Lee was fired from Radioshack. He is a huge fanboy who never got board approval for the sponsorship and many of the board members thought it was a waste of money and all of the Lance chaos only reinforced this.

Lance has nothing to do with the team, hasn't for almost a year

Right, had forgot about his departure, but I was thinking for some reason that was all about the merger. Anyone who works on the inside for sposorship would have the to be a fan of cycling. If you mean a fan of Lance, then OK. Did not know the full story about the board.

Horner seems to have some distance from Armstrong now, but probably feels some loyalty to the fact he's still got a job. I doubt few would have hired him.

I don't think Horner has made the big $$$ during his career and is speaking the truth when he says he does not know much about anything else. I am glad for him that he seems to have some independence now and might find a home after cycling with some aspect of the sport.

Opps, we were talking Fuglsang here. Best wishes to him as well.

 

[noddy69]

Fuglsang should do what he is best at ......now that I think about it maybe he is at that, shooting his mouth off to the press.
Between himself and the brothers grim it a nice happy family at radio nissan calamity.

As far as sanctioning a rider the way they have done, well its a sound decision. Why give a rider the rides he wants, for the points he wants, to keep his value, and so he can bring his points to another team. Fuglsang is playing the me me me game.....he even did a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A

Riders stick to riding and leave the management to those who are paid to do that.

 

[Cimber]

Radishack riders have filed complaints to UCI about lack of payment:

http://translate.google.com/transla...dk/nyheder/radioshack_ryttere_klager_til_uci/

 

[nowhereman]

It is a sound business decision and to be honest I think more teams should think that way. You have to play by the rules and the rules dictate that points scored by a rider that is leaving your team are completely useless to you. So if your team is on the edge when it comes to points, it is only logical to let someone who is actually staying with you ride instead. Even when that someone has a lower chance of winning/finishing top 10.

If that was a "sound business decision" then the rules ought to be changed so that the employers can't have that kind of effect on their employees. This rule, when exercised as you outline it, is contrary to the competitive nature of sports. If your employee decides that he is not staying with you, after his contract is up, you can spitefully keep him in his contract, but sit him out so that he will have less value( for himself ), and less value for the team he might work for in the future. Sounds petty and vindictive to me. It's the new way that Thanks are expressed by the employer. Screw the departing employee, and anybody who might want to hire them going forward. But hey, I'm just saying. Yeah it is a "sound business decision" based on todays disgusting regard that the "employer" has for the "employee", in todays "business" world. Dehumanizing. Too much negative power, that I'd bet wasn't originally intended, and ought to be amended. And funny enough, I don't even like Fuglsang, but this example of strategy, is much bigger than that man.

 

[BillytheKid]

Now it is quite funny when people talk about loyalty to the company, but it is now quite difficult to achieve if you do not pay the employees their wages.

The many internal disturbances at RadioShack-Nissan has provoked rumors of unpaid wages for some riders concerned. This is now confirmed by UCI.

Official UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani today against the German press agency dap confirmed that the International Cycling Federation UCI has received complaints regarding. not paying the salaries of several riders from the U.S. / Luxembourg crew RadioShack-Nissan, where they knew Schleck brothers are front figures. According to news agency it should be about at least three riders, but Carpani would not comment further.

Still trying to find the link to the story recently where Horner says he has seldom been paid on time throughout his career. Maybe he's putting a good face on it, but I think he was for real. Right now, I would put this story down to more pre-tour bicyle bashing stories. Eurocar is another. Not that is has or has not merit, but the annoucements just before the Tour is not an accident.

One sporting interest vs. another in a bad economy.

Since the the source of the RSNT-pay story is German, I wonder who could possibly be the source? If named, please enlighten us. Maybe a shot a RS after all in light of Fuglsang. I speculating of course, but some of these press stories are much the same, rumors.

 

[cineteq]

Still trying to find the link to the story recently where Horner says he has seldom been paid on time throughout his career. Maybe he's putting a good face on it, but I think he was for real. Right now, I would put this story down to more pre-tour bicyle bashing stories. Eurocar is another. Not that is has or has not merit, but the annoucements just before the Tour is not an accident.

There you go:

"As far as the team’s financial stability, Horner said he’d been paid every month since RadioShack came on as title sponsor in 2010. “Sometimes I get paid on the first of the month, sometimes I get paid in the middle of month, but I always get paid. I’ve got no complaints. I’ve been on a lot of teams in my career, and the only team that actually paid me to the letter of my contract was Webcor [in 2004]. As long as I am paid during the month I’m supposed to be paid, I’m happy."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...ction-a-tour-spot-and-radioshacks-woes_224417

 

[BillytheKid]

There you go:

"As far as the team’s financial stability, Horner said he’d been paid every month since RadioShack came on as title sponsor in 2010. “Sometimes I get paid on the first of the month, sometimes I get paid in the middle of month, but I always get paid. I’ve got no complaints. I’ve been on a lot of teams in my career, and the only team that actually paid me to the letter of my contract was Webcor [in 2004]. As long as I am paid during the month I’m supposed to be paid, I’m happy."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...ction-a-tour-spot-and-radioshacks-woes_224417

Thanks, I was thinking it was Bicyling.

 

[BillytheKid]

If that was a "sound business decision" then the rules ought to be changed so that the employers can't have that kind of effect on their employees. This rule, when exercised as you outline it, is contrary to the competitive nature of sports. If your employee decides that he is not staying with you, after his contract is up, you can spitefully keep him in his contract, but sit him out so that he will have less value( for himself ), and less value for the team he might work for in the future. Sounds petty and vindictive to me. It's the new way that Thanks are expressed by the employer. Screw the departing employee, and anybody who might want to hire them going forward. But hey, I'm just saying. Yeah it is a "sound business decision" based on todays disgusting regard that the "employer" has for the "employee", in todays "business" world. Dehumanizing. Too much negative power, that I'd bet wasn't originally intended, and ought to be amended. And funny enough, I don't even like Fuglsang, but this example of strategy, is much bigger than that man.

There is nothing really solid to back this stuff up. We have some rumors. Fuglsang has been speaking out and is disgruntled over the Tour selction.
I would wait awhile for the real story.

The negative publicity of not paying riders going into the most visable event (to the greater public) of the year does not make sense. Why would a sponsor want that?

Cancellara has a good chance of winning the stage and yellow on Saturday.

Sour grapes?