At least Garmin are letting their riders start the Aussie nationals, I read what CJ Sutton said about Sky not wanting them to ride and wondered just what the hells going on with them. I've heard some excuses in my time but the one they have come out with must top them all.
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bobbins said:
I think thats down to sky wanting to race in the new shirts as a team all together for the TDU.. From a PR point of view i can see there point, although i see no reason why the aussie guys couldnt race the nationals in neutral shirts.. i think its got as much to do with the planned training camp in australia as anything else..
maltiv said:
EBH beat Farrar once catching him sleeping. As I recall, Farrar beat EBH in stages 1,2 and 4. I'd give the edge to Farrar.
ImmaculateKadence said:
Yes, Farrar has the edge but they are closer than either of them are to Cavendish.
My guess is Garmin will end up with more wins... mainly due to their time trialists.
I don't see either team having someone winning much in the classics. Flecha is good and EBH shows a lot of promise... but I'm not sure I'd give them the clear edge over Maaskant and Van Summeren.
Overall I think Garmin is kind of following a "light" version of the Columbia formula. Work on sprints and TT's, put less effort in the GC. I think that formula is proven to get quite a few wins... and I don't see Sky picking up more wins anywhere else to compensate for that.
I don't see either team having someone winning much in the classics. Flecha is good and EBH shows a lot of promise... but I'm not sure I'd give them the clear edge over Maaskant and Van Summeren.
Overall I think Garmin is kind of following a "light" version of the Columbia formula. Work on sprints and TT's, put less effort in the GC. I think that formula is proven to get quite a few wins... and I don't see Sky picking up more wins anywhere else to compensate for that.
zapata said:
Unless you consider Gent-Wevelgem a cobbled race... no, EBH does not have superior results. Maaskant has 4th finishes in Paris-Roubaix and Ronde Van Vlaanderen. Van Summeren has an 8th and 5th in Roubaix, and won the Tour de Pologne.
When it comes to the Cobbled races the past 2 years... I might say Maaskant and Van Summeren have superior results to Flecha and whoever the next best cobbled rider for Sky is (I'm assuming EBH... but perhaps I'm wrong).
----
Really? Garmins time triallists WAS Bradley Wiggins ... who is now at Sky; next was Dave Z (probably looking at other things this year) and Millar (but not as much as he used to be). I would argue Wiggins, if he takes them seriously, will out perform Garmin in every TT he competes in.
EBH/Flecha HAVE superior results over last 2 years - EBH especially as the HOTTEST property in road racing (if we talk about classics), and many would be surprised if he or Flecha didn't at least podium in a few of the classics.
And Garmin following Columbia - maybe a little, with a half decent train (the problem being Millar, who more often than not actually works FOR Columbias train rather than his own - or in fact ANY team he spots!), but Columbia "focussing on TTs"? Really? Garmin, yes with Millar/Dave Z to aid Wiggins in the TTT, but Columbia? Even in the shorter TT; but the only half decent TT (and only as a GC contender, not an out and out TTer) at Columbia was Tony Martin. I owuld agree Garmin are trying to be a bit like a mini Columbia, with a TT in the mix; but I wouldl also say that with VDV they have a more capable GC candidate than THR and are building part of the team to support him seriously
kurtinsc said:
Oh, I was thinking of results in general, not only on cobbles. He's only ridden roubaix and flanders once, I think, and not as leader, but says he really likes both races, and this year, they'll be among his top priorities. I think he'll do good in both, although it has to be said that i just admitted, in another thread, to being a fan both of his and of flecha..
PS: I think pretty highly of maaskant as well. Just remembered i posted this in the Predictions for 2010:
"Just guessing..
Milan San remo: Cavendish
Vlaanderen: Maaskant
Ghent-Wevelgem: Hutarovitsj
Paris-roubaix: Flecha..or Boasson. Maybe a one-two for sky!?"
"Just guessing..
Milan San remo: Cavendish
Vlaanderen: Maaskant
Ghent-Wevelgem: Hutarovitsj
Paris-roubaix: Flecha..or Boasson. Maybe a one-two for sky!?"
kurtinsc said:
Where does the word "cobbled" come up? The guy was clearly saying that, in the CLASSICS (NOT in the cobbled Classics!) he would give the edge to EBH/FLecha over VS/Masskant - and the palmares bears this out.
You brought the cobbled up to discount EBH's G-W.
On the cobbled issue, taking the major races, assay, to be Paris-Roubaix, RVV, Ormloop,gent-wevelgem (it has some cobbles)) then the following is true:
Flecha has: 1st G-W, a {2nd,3rd,4th,6th} in P-R, a 3rd om the RVV, a 3rd in the Ormloop.
VS has: a 5th and an 8th in P-R, nothing much else (not in top 5 of any at least)
Maaskant has: a 4th in the RVV/P-R (once apiece).
EBH has - 1st in the G-W ON DEBUT, has only rode RVV/P-R once apiece (for experience - may improve we can't say).
So I would say Flecha is easily ahead of Maaskant then JVS with, at the moment (for cobbles ability ONLY), EBH last in those 4.
However, EBH IS 4 years younger, and with a 1t in the G-W already better than anything JVS/Maaskant have on their palmares, alongside the fact Sky will be supporting him/Flecha in all the spring classics, I can honestly say I expect them to do better than Garmin
ScottyMuser said:
Aren't you forgetting the world TT champion before last season Bert Grabsch and two time world TT champion Michael Rogers for example. Then there are also the likes of Pinotti, Rabon, Kirchen etc who also did well in TTs last year or previously.
Overall Columbia has 24 podiums in ITTs and Martin was only responsible for 5 of those.
What? Dave Z has done far more (as far as the road goes) on a time trial bike then Bradley Wiggins and it is not even close when you compare results.
ingsve said:
Yes I was, sorry, for some reason didn't remember Grabsch/Rogers being THR riders. NOt sure how I forgot them, will hang my head in shame (possibly due to neither doing anything in the first 2009 TDF iTT which was the one i mainly looked at (did check second but only top 15 or so, both finished just outside))
Having checked I see:
Grabsch coming 98th in first iTT, 1min58 behind
Rogers coming 27th in first iTT, 1min11 behind
Honestly I like the look of both teams. They are both teams that can win almost any race/stage. The one thing they both lack is a 2010 GT hopeful, given climbing is key in all 3. For the record sky will take more wins and hang around longer than the shack who will dissolve after armstrong leaves.
Garmin were rather noticeable by their absence at the end of today's race - especially considering their involvment in a few kamikaze breaks near the start. Just showing the flag?
zapata said:
do remember Johan has always been working (for Hoste most of the time) ... this will be the first year he can do his own thing
Up till now, EBH has basically been a sprinter with a decent time trial. Comparing him with Maaskant or Van Summeren is apples and oranges, really, but he still has a lot to prove on the true classics. I wonder if he can follow any of the strong men up a hill.ScottyMuser said:
Clemson Cycling said:
That was my reaction, too, but it could be some very localized bias showing through.
As far as Sky V Garmin, I think Sky in the spring and Garmin in the summer.
I'm really excited for Maaskant and EBH in the classics, but I don't think either of the two will win in Roubaix or Flanders. They're both amazing cyclists, but when I think about the rides that guys like Cancellara, Boonen, and Pippo can produce... That complicates things a bit.
Oh wow. I am SO excited for the classics.
Garmin 2
Sky 1
If we are going to keep score there is no reason why we shouldn't count every win. There are some big races here in America that Sky is not going to compete in and there are probably some big races in Europe that Garmin will skip.
Sky 1
If we are going to keep score there is no reason why we shouldn't count every win. There are some big races here in America that Sky is not going to compete in and there are probably some big races in Europe that Garmin will skip.
I would actually say that it's 2-0 to Garmin right now. The only races that should count should be pro races on the UCI calender i.e. of rank 1.2/2.2 and up including national championships. So basically the races that are counted on the Team Victory Ranking on cqranking.com.
Otherwise there would be a hard time drawing a line of which races to count or not. You'd probably have to count the invitational crits after the Tour and those aren't even always contested properly for example.
Otherwise there would be a hard time drawing a line of which races to count or not. You'd probably have to count the invitational crits after the Tour and those aren't even always contested properly for example.
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