Gas6?

[Tyler'sTwin]

What? It says it raises RBC's to normal levels but not beyond that. Great for anemic patients, useless for dopers.

 

[thirteen]

Not so.

And guess who one of the 'foreign experts' below is....?

Gas6 as alternative − and safer − remedy?

VIB researcher Diether Lambrechts and his colleagues have been studying − under the direction of Ed Conway and Peter Carmeliet, and in collaboration with foreign experts − the role of the Gas6 protein in mice. While EPO plays a prominent role in the production of red blood cells throughout our life, Gas6 is only involved in the production of red blood cells in adulthood.


When mice with anemia are treated with Gas6, the red blood cells once again rise to their normal levels in the blood. In contrast to EPO, the use of Gas6 does not result in an excessive production of red blood cells, which increases the risk of thrombosis. Furthermore, Gas6 reinforces the effect of EPO: indeed, when Gas6 is administered to mice that have not produced enough EPO, it works just as well as EPO, and a combined treatment of Gas6 and EPO produces an even greater therapeutic effect.

So, the positive evaluation of Gas6 in anemic mice raises hopes for a more effective and safer remedy for chronic disease patients who have to contend with anemia as a consequence of their disease or therapy.

so you're saying it will not raise hematocrit?

 

[Benotti69]

now we're talking....

QUESTION: Do we have any dutch speakers / readers on here?

GAS6 underwent / in undergoing clinical trials & research at the Catholic University in Leuven, there's some reports i have about this.

One of them names our good friend..... Geert Leinders in it.

So, make of this what you will.

If someone can tell me how to post a pp doc top this forum, i will post the doc i have, it's all in Dutch / Flemish.

thx.

pm Sniper.

 

[murali]

the original paper was published in 2005. can't understand why phase1 clinical trials are not over by now.


The said study was only interested in treating anemia, and hence only interested in restoring rbc counts. The researchers would not have tried to give normal mice the same protien and check whether the rbc count changes.

any idea of how long the protein is going to stay in the system and how long the effects of the dose is going to last?

 

[Gogojv]

So who is the expert?

What i understand is when you are ill.
Say 30 hemotacriet with epo you can get to 45 but not all people and with some risks.
30 with gas6 the body will get to the natural 45 of that person.

With use of epo 1 + 1 = 3

Do i understand correctly?

Because gas6 is all natural it does not leave markers(positive doping test)???

 

[Gogojv]

The link i read in dutch was from 2008.

 

[King Boonen]

the original paper was published in 2005. can't understand why phase1 clinical trials are not over by now.


The said study was only interested in treating anemia, and hence only interested in restoring rbc counts. The researchers would not have tried to give normal mice the same protien and check whether the rbc count changes.

any idea of how long the protein is going to stay in the system and how long the effects of the dose is going to last?

I've not read the paper but I'm almost 100% certain they would. It's called a "Control group".

 

[Alex76]

so you're saying it will not raise hematocrit?

sorry - there's more info on this that i will post when i figure out how to do upload this.

apparantly this stuff needs to be taken alongside EPO.

what is interesting is that GL appears to be / have been involved in the trials / research - rather similar to Cecchini....

 

[taiwan]

now we're talking....

QUESTION: Do we have any dutch speakers / readers on here?

GAS6 underwent / in undergoing clinical trials & research at the Catholic University in Leuven, there's some reports i have about this.

One of them names our good friend..... Geert Leinders in it.

So, make of this what you will.

If someone can tell me how to post a pp doc top this forum, i will post the doc i have, it's all in Dutch / Flemish.

thx.

http://www.viewdocsonline.com

Is it possibe to upload it to this site and post the link? Haven't tried it though. Google docs might be viable also.

 

[Ferminal]

Anything which influences RBC production more than the existing ABP limits on EPO is going to be a bit more complicated to use, knowing what is required to pass the software and all that. Plus if that's all it does then someone else using EPO and transfusions can probably get to the same point (albeit with greater risk).

 

[taiwan]

Interesting. If it doesn't cause "excessive production of RBCs", that doesn't mean it doesn't increase hct. It might sort of stabilize hct at an elevated level.

I'm really tempted to speculate further about this but I won't yet.

 

[Alex76]

hope this works, this is a pp doc - some of you have prob already seen it, not asure what it says as can't read Dutch / Flemish.

There's another doc on GAS6, but i cant download the file format on this pc, will try at home on the mac.

<a href=http://www.filedropper.com/ethischeaspectenvandopinggebruik><img src=http://www.filedropper.com/download_button.png width=127 height=145 border=0/></a>
<div style=font-size:9px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;width:127px;font-color:#44a854;> <a href=http://www.filedropper.com >online backup storage</a></div>

 

[doperhopper]

Vroom/Brailsford: we're not cheating (read: we're using new stuff that is not banned yet)

 

[Tc-99m]

EPO enhancer identified

EPO enhancer identified

19.02.2008

Leuven/Geneva – Belgian and Swiss researchers have discovered a protein factor that could improve the response rate to anemia blockbuster erythropoietin (EPO).
....

Drugs that promote Gas 6 expression might therefore be a means to treat sensitive non responders to Epo.

http://www.eurobiotechnews.eu/nc/ne...rowse/15/article/epo-enhancer-identified.html

 

[King Boonen]

Vroom/Brailsford: we're not cheating (read: we're using new stuff that is not banned yet)

I'm guessing you've never even looked at the prohibited list?

 

[Netserk]

@alex76

your link worked for me. I am viewing the 18 slides big pp atm.

Slide 1
Slide 2
Slide 3
Slide 4
Slide 5
Slide 6
Slide 7

 

[Alex76]

ahh it worked!!

i loaded it, and then it didnt click through, so took it down. just converting again and will reload.

as said - i dont know what it means, but there's some familiar names in there.

 

[blackcat]

Interesting. If it doesn't cause "excessive production of RBCs", that doesn't mean it doesn't increase hct. It might sort of stabilize hct at an elevated level.

I'm really tempted to speculate further about this but I won't yet.

nah, go ahead. i would be happy to see wiggo, brailsford and hoy do a prisoner dilemma and lose their knighthoods as they turn on one another, and froome to lose his citizenship

*half in jest. half not in jest. one third serious.
*poor aggregation of fractions. these are not aggregation of marginal gains, just cr@p addition

 

[sideshadow]

Here's the full piece of literature

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176185/

 

[Gogojv]

The slide links is nothing. Just pro doping --- con doping arguments.

 

[boladelmundo]

@Alex76
It seems that the document you have just uploaded took Rassmunsen's case to debate about "ethical aspect of doping". I don't this is related to Gas6 discussed in this thread.

The familiar names you referred to were just example of a doping case and the "stakeholders" involved in the case (meaning everyone related to the case, but not necessarily guilty).

Google translation from page 3 is as follows:

Doping is forbidden, but not boxing
Athletes are monitored, but not musicians
Sponsors want extreme performance, but also extreme honesty
Supporters want heavy Tour, but condemn doping users
Cycling Journalists succeed, but at the same time ointments
The Prohibited List is binding, but fluctuates
Health is first concern, but not all products on the doping list are unhealthy
Fair play is second concern, but it can be guaranteed that at all?

 

[boladelmundo]

The slide links is nothing. Just pro doping --- con doping arguments.

Ah, you beat me to it
Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Alex76]

@Alex76
It seems that the document you have just uploaded took Rassmunsen's case to debate about "ethical aspect of doping". I don't this is related to Gas6 discussed in this thread.

The familiar names you referred to were just example of a doping case and the "stakeholders" involved in the case (meaning everyone related to the case, but necessarily guilty).

Google translation from page 3 is as follows:

ahhh okay - thanks for this.

 

[Cycle Chic]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176185/

The most important finding of our study is that Gas6 plays a critical role in the generation of erythroid progenitors and erythroblasts, in part by enhancing their survival response to Epo. As a result, absence of Gas6 impairs the erythropoietic response and hematocrit recovery upon induction of acute anemia. Conversely, treatment with rGas6 stimulates hematocrit recoveries and protects WT mice against the development of anemia, induced by hemolysis or in part by blood loss

I concluded after trying to understand all that is that Gas6 boosts the body's response to EPO while levelling the haematocrit levels. Which means the blood passport wouldn't show any anomalies.

Now isn't this what Brailsford is now focussing on...The Blood Passport.

 

[Gogojv]

Maybe it can also help in recovery without getting any epo markers???

In a normal hard training period and gt hematocriet goes down. But because of gas6 it might actually not go down or less!?
F.i. Start gt 45 end gt 40
Start gt 45 with gas6 end gt 43???
?????