Gazprom-Rusvelo

[Ripper]

they took a bloodbag late last night just for this yeah sure they've been really hammering this giro so far as well

this is what you get with talented climbers saving their energy yesterday and go full on today. if you've never heard of foliforov or his results in u23 then

Hmmm, I've not said that anything of either rider's previous results, so don't get all Dooshy there Ryo de RChipperino. I can see you treasure these guys

2 top 5 rides in a GT MTT, ya, I find it a bit suspicious for a team. I think Gazprom-Rusvelo need a thread

I think Cannondale also needs a thread for how they manage to make riders perform worse

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

they took a bloodbag late last night just for this yeah sure they've been really hammering this giro so far as well

this is what you get with talented climbers saving their energy yesterday and go full on today. if you've never heard of foliforov or his results in u23 then

Hmmm, I've not said that anything of either rider's previous results, so don't get all Dooshy there Ryo de RChipperino. I can see you treasure these guys

2 top 5 rides in a GT MTT, ya, I find it a bit suspicious for a team. I think Gazprom-Rusvelo need a thread

I think Cannondale also needs a thread for how they manage to make riders perform worse

they must've wonderous doping if it only works 1 day in a gt....

 

[Benotti69]

Two guys with virtually no palmares on the same team get the best results of their lves on the same day on an uphill TT. Someone should do a heat scan on the Gazprom bikes.

stopped reading there

then why post?

Gazprom are a re a professional team like others. They have to get results and in cycling they will use all means available, legal or not.

They have had five riders test positive in 2 years!!!

 

[luckyboy]

Two guys with virtually no palmares on the same team get the best results of their lves on the same day on an uphill TT. Someone should do a heat scan on the Gazprom bikes.

stopped reading there

then why post?

If someone comes into the thread straight away saying they have no idea about any aspect of the riders we are talking about then why would you read any further?

 

[zlev11]

of the entire top 10 on the stage the only two riders that didn't ride full out yesterday were...Foliforov and Firsanov. it's not that strange IMO.

 

[Benotti69]

Two guys with virtually no palmares on the same team get the best results of their lves on the same day on an uphill TT. Someone should do a heat scan on the Gazprom bikes.

stopped reading there

then why post?

If someone comes into the thread straight away saying they have no idea about any aspect of the riders we are talking about then why would you read any further?

You can choose ignore it or you can correct the poster and point to the riders palmares!

And you can add the team has had 5 positives, a tad unlucky, i guess.

But to post 'stopped reading there' adds nothing and instead is trolling.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

of the entire top 10 on the stage the only two riders that didn't ride full out yesterday were...Foliforov and Firsanov. it's not that strange IMO.

Well then by that logic all the top 10 would be riders that did not ride full out yesterday.....Gazprom have doping history.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

With Zakarin he had few results to speak of until he was as old as Foliforov is now and had tested positive as a teenager. He did have his breakthrough with Rusvelo though. Foliforov's been a decent U23 at least, but as we know from the likes of Zakarin that doesn't preclude an early start.

Remember there was that incident where three of their riders got busted and got reduced bands cos the doctor cocked up something three years ago.

However, that said, the amount of salt being thrown in the PRR forum because of Foliforov winning is ridiculous, he beat Kruijswijk by half a second after resting up yesterday, and we didn't see enough of his ride to really ascertain techniques like happened with Zakarin when we watched him and thought, how does he put down that power riding so inefficiently? People are reacting like it's Horner winning the Vuelta, and it really isn't like that. It isn't even Santambrogio, cos he's only done this on one stage thus far and the time check was rendered more or less irrelevant by a poor placing of it to make it difficult to judge. Maybe like Cobo in 2011 on the Angliru, he just chose the best gearing. And yes, maybe he chose the best gear.

Exactly, Foliforov had a few interesting results in his first year as a pro, 15th in 2015 Andalucia (The Froome vs. Contador show) ahead of guys like Reichenbach, Kelderman and van den Broeck (Forsanov finished 13th), crushed everyone in the 10km long uphill ITT at the GP of Sochi (1'28" faster than Firsanov) and 10th in the Tour de Slovénie (9th on the Queenstage, 45 seconds behind Roglic).
Only 4 seconds slower than Aru (who's 2 years older) in the 2012 Giro della Valle d'Aosta MTT (Chernetckii smashed everyone in that MTT, I always expected him to be the next Russian gc rider and not Zakarin).
Yes, Gazprom might be a shady team, but those 2 guys had already shown some potential and it's still more believable than Dumoulin's transformation...
The guy beat your favs in the MTT, deal with it!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

With Zakarin he had few results to speak of until he was as old as Foliforov is now and had tested positive as a teenager. He did have his breakthrough with Rusvelo though. Foliforov's been a decent U23 at least, but as we know from the likes of Zakarin that doesn't preclude an early start.

Remember there was that incident where three of their riders got busted and got reduced bands cos the doctor cocked up something three years ago.

However, that said, the amount of salt being thrown in the PRR forum because of Foliforov winning is ridiculous, he beat Kruijswijk by half a second after resting up yesterday, and we didn't see enough of his ride to really ascertain techniques like happened with Zakarin when we watched him and thought, how does he put down that power riding so inefficiently? People are reacting like it's Horner winning the Vuelta, and it really isn't like that. It isn't even Santambrogio, cos he's only done this on one stage thus far and the time check was rendered more or less irrelevant by a poor placing of it to make it difficult to judge. Maybe like Cobo in 2011 on the Angliru, he just chose the best gearing. And yes, maybe he chose the best gear.

Exactly, Foliforov had a few interesting results in his first year as a pro, 15th in 2015 Andalucia (The Froome vs. Contador show) ahead of guys like Reichenbach, Kelderman and van den Broeck (Forsanov finished 13th), crushed everyone in the 10km long uphill ITT at the GP of Sochi (1'28" faster than Firsanov) and 10th in the Tour de Slovénie (9th on the Queenstage, 45 seconds behind Roglic).
Only 4 seconds slower than Aru (who's 2 years older) in the 2012 Giro della Valle d'Aosta MTT (Chernetckii smashed everyone in that MTT, I always expected him to be the next Russian gc rider and not Zakarin).
Yes, Gazprom might be a shady team, but those 2 guys had already shown some potential and it's still more believable than Dumoulin's transformation...
The guy beat your favs in the MTT, deal with it!

be aware. you are actually making sense

 

[Libertine Seguros]

We have Sveshnikov (2014 national track championships, cleared), the three from the Russian nationals in 2013 who got 6 month suspensions because the doctor took the blame (Ovechkin, Solomennikov and Maikin), Ignatenko on a near 4 year vacation (HGH positive OOC, April 2015) and Kaykov who's now eligible again but not got a contract (GW501516, OOC, March 2013). Another issue is that there is obviously a lot of politicking going on about riders between the various Russian teams and who rides where (I am alarmed at how Shalunov has basically disappeared into thin air at Gazprom-Rusvelo after a great season with Lokosphinx last year, for example).

There are plenty of good reasons to raise the alarm bells about performances by the team, for sure. And I do think that putting two riders in the top 5 today was unexpected and allows for a little eyebrow-raising. I just think whitewashing the respective palmarès of a guy who's been a good ProConti rider for years (but on a team that doesn't do many WT races) and a guy who's been a strong U23 climber is not the best or most accurate way to present the case.

 

[Scatto]

There are no bad riders in the Giro, and anybody will have ridden besides Aru or Teuns on a good day when they had a bad day. Judging by that standard, a time trial becomes a lottery. You may even take into account the steady top riders are exhausted or themselves on some program, still it is highly suspicious that two riders of such a small team enter the top ten in this field. What else can we say? That Russians have probably stopped doping now that so many cases have been discovered? Then stop speed controls on the highway, as there have been fines for speeding before. BTW I'm not a Piti fanboy.

 

[hrotha]

This is dodgy as hell. All those other teams probably dope too, but there's such a thing as overdoing it.

Bringing up Firsanov's Vuelta a Madrid result is pretty hilarious, considering how ridiculous that was at the time.

 

[luckyboy]

I assume that the backroom staff is the same as a few years ago, yes? Haven't seen anything different since the rebranding anyway.


GM is still Khamidulin; DSs are Ivanov, Kuschynski, Ekimov, any more?

East German Salzwedel was GM but left in 2014 to go back to British Cycling. Van Kessel left for Wiggle last year. Is Henk Vogels still there?

Their doctor Liakhov was banned after the 2013 positives from what I remember? Don't know if he is back or what. They have a doctor called Alexey Yashin now anyway.

 

[luckyboy]

Re:

This is dodgy as hell. All those other teams probably dope too, but there's such a thing as overdoing it.

Bringing up Firsanov's Vuelta a Madrid result is pretty hilarious, considering how ridiculous that was at the time.

However are ridiculous he has been, people are just saying that these guys have no palmares and no results, which is wrong.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

This is dodgy as hell. All those other teams probably dope too, but there's such a thing as overdoing it.

Bringing up Firsanov's Vuelta a Madrid result is pretty hilarious, considering how ridiculous that was at the time.

Firsanov's 2012 emergence and subsequent Indian Summer is suspect in general though, rather than this particular stage being a one-off "what the hell was that?" performance. There are even people who predicted he'd do well in this stage, although top 5 may be above and beyond expected. Saying the guy is suspicious because he was strong today and has next to no palmarès is an outright nonsense. Saying he has next to no palmarès up to age 30 and that the palmarès he has accrued since then is suspicious is a completely different argument, and one I am much more in agreement with.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

I assume that the backroom staff is the same as a few years ago, yes? Haven't seen anything different since the rebranding anyway.


GM is still Khamidulin; DSs are Ivanov, Kuschynski, Ekimov, any more?

East German Salzwedel was GM but left in 2014 to go back to British Cycling. Van Kessel left for Wiggle last year. Is Henk Vogels still there?

Their doctor Liakhov was banned after the 2013 positives from what I remember? Don't know if he is back or what. They have a doctor called Alexey Yashin now anyway.

Aliaksandr? The guy that kicked Krasilnikau off the team he managed last season for daring to not sit up and let him win at the nationals when there was another rider on a different team in a two-up sprint with him? I kinda liked him as a rider but since that, he can go to hell.

 

[hrotha]

I agree, luckyboy and LS.

 

[luckyboy]

Oh yeah I vaguely remember that. Yes Aliaksandr.


And about Firsanov - before the race I would say that by stage 15 he would be higher in GC and have a stage win, lol

 

[hrotha]

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

 

[afpm90]

Comments from Martinelli:

“The Russians always go all out, and today he found his good day,” Astana team manager Giuseppe Martinelli said. “He lives on Lake Garda, knows the climb, so I don’t think that he stole this win from anyone.

 

[hrotha]

"I don’t think that he stole this win from anyone," said Martinelli readying the IV-stand.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

"I don’t think that he stole this win from anyone," said Martinelli readying the IV-stand.

Martinelli trying to be diplomatic, or realistic, as in, 'he didn't steal this win from anyone because everyone else in the race is doping too?'

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Kruijswijk would have won if he had Kung, Txurruka, Domont, and Denifl starting at one minute intervals ahead of him.

 

[Rollthedice]

Last 6.35 k the Gazprom rocket climbed 40 sec faster than Kruijswijk.