GB Track Team

[Franklin]

The track team, like it or not, race clean, I fully believe that. The list of the team's achievements are long and stretch back to 1996. There has been a clear improving arc of performance ever since, on the back of a lot of funding.

If you watch the recent documentaries on Wiggins or Pendleton, or listen to Geraint Thomas and Mark Cavendish talk, and you still label them dopers I think you are very poor judges of character.

Before you go, do yourself a favor and look into the Goldman Dilemma. Over 50% of the Olympic sporters would sign a likely death warrant in 5 years for gold. This questionaire has been repeated quite a few times and the numbers remained constant. When these questions were put to the general public only 2% wanted to go that far. Sportsmen psychology is not akin to that of the normal society.

Now even with the adverse effects of Roids and Epo we don't see a 5 year dead sentence. How big do you think the temptation will be? These repeated questionnaires make the chances of doping in any sport incredibly likely. *

So you should be very careful where you put your trust. Sportsmen are not to be trusted with this matter.



* Note that the role of Leinders at Rabo certainly had something to do with the Goldman Dilemma.

 

[Darryl Webster]

But if Gene doping boosts EPO wouldn't that ring alarm bells in the Blood Passport? Authorities need to focus on improving the Blood Passport system as this way you detect the effects of doping not the doping itself which is more difficult to detect when different methods are found then used.

It seems that gene therapy offers more than increased oxygen in the blood such as the possibility of improving other factors that increase endurance.

Watts/ kilo calculations help us identify peek suspicious levels but might not so readily help us identify the ease with which sub peek levels are maintained.
Being able to compete , with ease and thus fast recuperation is clearly very advantageous in endurance sports were much of the time will be spent at bellow high watts/ kilo levels, stage racing being a prime example.

 

[BroDeal]

There is no state-sponsored doping in Britain

While there have been, and will be British athletes that test positive for prohibited substances it is not endemic or systematic.

The track team, like it or not, race clean, I fully believe that. The list of the team's achievements are long and stretch back to 1996. There has been a clear improving arc of performance ever since, on the back of a lot of funding.

I think deep down many of you want this performance to be dirty, but even there I think there is an inkling that maybe, just maybe this 'marginal gains' mantra might be the cause: an attention to detail, from tech to diet to sleep to psychology to training, the goes beyond anything the other teams are doing.

That maybe David Brailsford is a genius and these are all exceptional athletes, and not some doping overlord and his evil minions.

If you watch the recent documentaries on Wiggins or Pendleton, or listen to Geraint Thomas and Mark Cavendish talk, and you still label them dopers I think you are very poor judges of character.

While I have been assured the clinic is worthwhile and actually stands for something, in my time reading it (and I have since the Criterium de Dauphine this year, after I was alerted to accusations against Sky on another forum) I just see it as mainly a platform for sneering at successes and more and more that sneering has been directed at my country and countrymen, resulting in borderline racist remarks at times.

Just because other great cycling nations have built that greatness through the needle of a syringe, it doesn't dictate we are doing the same. That isn't a truth, it isn't a fact, it is an assumption, an innuendo, and there are always other possibilities. I just hope some of you that are so convinced of our cheating might just acknowledge that fact.

Anyway here I draw my line in the sand. There is little point continuing to come here and saying things because people believe what they want to believe. I believe a different thing to many of you and while I am open to other possibilities I think the discussion here is barely rational and basically pointless. And when the levels of ignorance are displayed like they are in the 'I've never support a British team' thread it devolves into farce. Why the hell you think I should want any of you to support a British rider or team is beyond me. We're quite happy supporting our sportsmen ourselves.

One last thing: for all you questioning our performances on the track, ever consider home team advantage?

Anyway I am going to my damndest to stay away from here, I really do think it is an unpleasant and unhealthy place.

LOL. Anyone who does believe in our athletes success in a totally dirty sport is a racist!

How many Watts is home team advantage worth? I would like to hear the scientific explanation for that one. Where is Krebs when you need him?

 

[Magnus]

One last thing: for all you questioning our performances on the track, ever consider home team advantage?

Must admit that I laughed at this when I read it, but I think there might be some truth in it. If the track really is the fastest in the world (which it seems like it could be), then it must be a huge advantage for the British teams if they have had possibility to train on it leading up to the event.

 

[Franklin]

Must admit that I laughed at this when I read it, but I think there might be some truth in it. If the track really is the fastest in the world (which it seems like it could be), then it must be a huge advantage for the British teams if they have had possibility to train on it leading up to the event.

Why would that be? Is the riding style different on this track?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

When these questions were put to the general public only 2% wanted to go that far.

Two percent would be described as marginal gains.

In twelve years time the world record pursuit has come down with about ten seconds. That's quite a lot to me. Ten seconds from epo boosted times that is.

The track team, like it or not, race clean, I fully believe that. The list of the team's achievements are long and stretch back to 1996. There has been a clear improving arc of performance ever since, on the back of a lot of funding.

If you watch the recent documentaries on Wiggins or Pendleton, or listen to Geraint Thomas and Mark Cavendish talk, and you still label them dopers I think you are very poor judges of character

You are free to believe what you want, hell, you even are allowed to go to church in my book. You are allowed to believe Wiggo, Pendleton, Thomas and tha Cav on their blue eyes. But let me ask you this:
Don't you think it is a bit suspicious one nation suddenly rocks the boat in almost every cycling discipline? We have seen it all before.

Congrats with the medals and chauvinism.

 

[Stueyy]

Two percent would be described as marginal gains.

In twelve years time the world record pursuit has come down with about ten seconds. That's quite a lot to me. Ten seconds from epo boosted times that is.

You are free to believe what you want, hell, you even are allowed to go to church in my book. You are allowed to believe Wiggo, Pendleton, Thomas and tha Cav on their blue eyes. But let me ask you this:
Don't you think it is a bit suspicious one nation suddenly rocks the boat in almost every cycling discipline? We have seen it all before.

Congrats with the medals and chauvinism.

The Dave Brailsford program. Notice how in all the team events the weakest links have suddenly become extremely strong and better than the competition. This is one area Dave has focused on for success, get the weaker members more seriously on the program and the team events will be a done deal.

 

[Darryl Webster]

If you watch the recent documentaries on Wiggins or Pendleton, or listen to Geraint Thomas and Mark Cavendish talk, and you still label them dopers I think you are very poor judges of character.

While I have been assured the clinic is worthwhile and actually stands for something, in my time reading it (and I have since the Criterium de Dauphine this year, after I was alerted to accusations against Sky on another forum) I just see it as mainly a platform for sneering at successes and more and more that sneering has been directed at my country and countrymen, resulting in borderline racist remarks at times.

Just because other great cycling nations have built that greatness through the needle of a syringe, it doesn't dictate we are doing the same. That isn't a truth, it isn't a fact, it is an assumption, an innuendo, and there are always other possibilities. I just hope some of you that are so convinced of our cheating might just acknowledge that fact.

Anyway here I draw my line in the sand. There is little point continuing to come here and saying things because people believe what they want to believe. I believe a different thing to many of you and while I am open to other possibilities I think the discussion here is barely rational and basically pointless. And when the levels of ignorance are displayed like they are in the 'I've never support a British team' thread it devolves into farce. Why the hell you think I should want any of you to support a British rider or team is beyond me. We're quite happy supporting our sportsmen ourselves.
.

Well, well, well, I'm a "Brit" and a former national team member to boot and what you have put is nothing more than blind, ignorant patriotism of the worst kind. The mantra at this level of competition has absolutely nothing to do with being "British"..if you knew anything about the BC set up you would know that a good % of the back room staff and coaches, in common with other nations national teams are NOT British , you'd also be aware that nationalities amongst elite athletes are increasingly little more than passports of convenience. You'd also be aware that amongst BC/ Sky staff are people with long and well document histories involving teams were doping has been proven. What you wont be aware of that one of them I've seen dope with my own eyes and , with both team manger and race organisers collusion breach medical control practise. That person was on your TV screen today, track side.
Take of your blinkers , enjoy high level competition , but stop with the nonsense that doping is beyond anything that "us Brits" might do. That is utter nonsense. It always has been.

 

[Magnus]

Why would that be? Is the riding style different on this track?

It seems to me that the riders change in team pursuit is absolutely vital. It also seems that the exact timing of dropping in on the third riders wheels with just a few centimeters gap is difficult. I was amazed at how well the Brits managed this compared to the other teams. But maybe that's just down to the TV production. Who knows.

A quick 'back of the envelope' calculation:
Suppose you want to drop your 4K time from 240 seconds (4 minutes) to 230 seconds.
First and last lap it's probably hard to make much of a difference because you have to start on the first round and get aligned for the last. Assuming you use 40 seconds on the first and last lap combined (saying that the start and finish cost 10 seconds compared to the average round). Then you have to go 3500 meters in 190 seconds instead of 3500 meters in 200 seconds. That means you're going 66.3 km/h instead of 61.25 km/h.

Of course this is probably somewhat exaggerated but it must be an advantage to be used to doing the changes at a speed as close to the one you're going to do in competition as possible.

 

[MacRoadie]

Must admit that I laughed at this when I read it, but I think there might be some truth in it. If the track really is the fastest in the world (which it seems like it could be), then it must be a huge advantage for the British teams if they have had possibility to train on it leading up to the event.

One would assume that riders used to slogging around a slower trck would benefit the most from riding on an allegedly faster track (sort of like training with ankle weights).

Regardless, our track here in So Cal is considered to be a pretty fast one as well. It made from the same Siberian Pine, is well-seasoned, and I doubt London is THAT much faster.

 

[pedaling squares]

So you are saying that the Brits invented a new form of doping that no one else knows of, that can't be tested for and helps in both team sprint and pursuit enough to set new world records?

You need to catch up on your conspiracy theories, Magnus. Prevailing theory being that Sky/GB are the new favourite children getting some wink-wink, nudge-nudge assistance from the regulating agencies. You don't need to be undetectable if you have immunity.

If you watch the recent documentaries on Wiggins or Pendleton, or listen to Geraint Thomas and Mark Cavendish talk, and you still label them dopers I think you are very poor judges of character.

They cannot be dopers because they gave a nice interview or a producer and director put together a nice documentary? It's the Tyler Hamilton argument all over again. You think all dopers talk like Ricco and act like Armstrong? How many times do we have to get fooled by the nice guy with the wayward ethics? I guess we all put on the blinders and reset the scoreboard to zero when it's your own country. I don't know if any of these athletes are on the sauce, but I sure don't take their words or mannerisms as proof that they are clean.

 

[Mellow Velo]

The Dave Brailsford program.

Great name for a jazz quartet. Much better than a pursuit quartet.

 

[Parera]

lololololololol

 

[ferryman]

I just see it as mainly a platform for sneering at successes and more and more that sneering has been directed at my country and countrymen, resulting in borderline racist remarks at times.

Just because other great cycling nations have built that greatness through the needle of a syringe, it doesn't dictate we are doing the same.

I'm torn between you actually believing that or that you are just an arrogant, racist, English troll. Actually, on reflection not sure if there is a difference TBH.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Peter kennaugh, jack bobridge, geraint thomas etc future Gt winners.

 

[JibberJim]

Why would that be? Is the riding style different on this track?

More experience of the right gear choice - especially if they only heat the velodrome up etc. when the GB team were practicing. The exact banking angles and transitions can be different - although that would be for match sprinting rather than the events we've had so far.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

lololololololol

 

[will10]

Peter kennaugh, jack bobridge, geraint thomas etc future Gt winners.

"Ed Clancy and Steven Burke were the strongest"

 

[No_Balls]

They cannot be dopers because they gave a nice interview or a producer and director put together a nice documentary? It's the Tyler Hamilton argument all over again. You think all dopers talk like Ricco and act like Armstrong? How many times do we have to get fooled by the nice guy with the wayward ethics? I guess we all put on the blinders and reset the scoreboard to zero when it's your own country. I don't know if any of these athletes are on the sauce, but I sure don't take their words or mannerisms as proof that they are clean.

They cannot be dopers because they speak perfect english and are humble lads from the countryside. It is as easy as this. Remember that the world had to go trough hell and high water to bring Armstrong to justice (and then all the evidence was on the table). Wonder what needs to bring the brits to the grinder these days? Ah, what did i just say? London calling.

 

[Stueyy]

Great name for a jazz quartet. Much better than a pursuit quartet.

He's worse than Bruyneel and is going to leave a nasty legacy on GB and world cycling...

 

[No_Balls]

I just see it as mainly a platform for sneering at successes and more and more that sneering has been directed at my country and countrymen, resulting in borderline racist remarks at times.

Just because other great cycling nations have built that greatness through the needle of a syringe, it doesn't dictate we are doing the same.

I'm torn between you actually believing that or that you are just an arrogant, racist, English troll. Actually, on reflection not sure if there is a difference TBH.

Whatever rolling their boats. Great to actually test the character of them brits.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Must admit that I laughed at this when I read it, but I think there might be some truth in it. If the track really is the fastest in the world (which it seems like it could be), then it must be a huge advantage for the British teams if they have had possibility to train on it leading up to the event.

If it's the fastest, then every team would experience faster times. This isn't bobsled.

Were many performances better?

 

[No_Balls]

Great name for a jazz quartet. Much better than a pursuit quartet.

With the classical ballade "From January to December" to the more uptempo: "Marginal Gains" (clean sweep).

 

[Magnus]

One would assume that riders used to slogging around a slower trck would benefit the most from riding on an allegedly faster track (sort of like training with ankle weights).

I assume it's better to train how to handle the bike on the track @65 km/h by riding the bike on the track @65 km/h rather than @60 km/h.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The Dave Brailsford program. Notice how in all the team events the weakest links have suddenly become extremely strong and better than the competition. This is one area Dave has focused on for success, get the weaker members more seriously on the program and the team events will be a done deal.

That explanation fits the Men's results where Team GB had lackluster results in 2011. I'm assuming "on the program" is a euphemism because recent history shows sudden improvements at an international level are suspect.